No air in Northstar firebox

[al buquerque]

I have a newly installed Heat & Glow Northstar wood burning fireplace. On New Years Eve I attempted my first fire. I opened up the outside air source baffle and opened up the timer and manual slide all the way to get it to light and get a good airflow going. Didn't work worth a darned! Acted as if there was no air getting into the firebox and it was snuffing out the fire. The only way I could get it to get enough oxygen was to open the glass doors up and let room air into the firebox.

I tried a second time last night after reading over the directions about 50 times just to make sure I'm twisting the knob the right way (I am) and opening the vents. Still didn't work.

With just two fires since new, my glass doors are compltetlty sooted and brown.

It should be getting plenty of outside air from the exterior vent that is under my deck area about six feet away from where the stove is installed, which has no obstructions from snow, etc.

So here is my question... I don't see any way for the air to come into the firebox. I don't see any holes around the edges or anywhere. Are the inlet air holes behind the fire bricks?

I had to take out and re-install all the firebricks to get the unit light enough to get it in the house during construction. Is it possible I'm blocking the inlets holes some how?

Appreciate the help from a new guy that is frustrated.

 

[pen]

I'm not certain if firebrick configuration could cause a problem in this box,,,, but I will say I doubt it. Does your manual have a diagram you can look at to double check?

I will say, this is a common problem with many new setups. I think if you check out some of the links in this troubleshooting thread you'll find it helpful. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lem-stoves-air-is-restricted-faq-about.59225/

Good luck and welcome to the site, let us know how you make out.

 

[al buquerque]

Thanks for the input.
After posting this thread, I went ahead and took all the fire bricks out to check if there were any vent holes behind them that might be blocking fresh inlet air air. Nothing behind the bricks but solid steel. The only place I can see a possibility of air coming into the firebox is at the TOP of the box where there are three tubes with holes all along them. Sort of like piccolo tubes. This doesn't make much sense to me since you would want the fresh air to come in under the fire to get a good mix...right???

Anyhow I burned another fire tonight and left the glass doors just a little loose to let some air in and it worked pretty well. BUT... By drawing in the air from within the house it draws in the outside cold air and creates drafts from whatever leaky spot it can find. Which pretty much defeats the purpose of having a modern, tight firebox fed from the outside.

Still a mystery to me.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. The air comes in mostly through the air wash for the glass. Once the fire is going strong and the firebox heats up, air is drawn through the secondary tubes at the top of the firebox. Are you opening the outside air control by turning it clockwise. Then are you opening the combustion air control all the way to the right? If yes, one possibility is that the wood is not fully seasoned. Try starting a fire with some 2 x 4 cut offs split in half. Stack them lincoln log style and place wadded up sheets of newspaper in between. Then place a couple thinner (2-3" thick) splits on top of them and light the paper. It's ok to have the door slightly ajar at this point to add air for starting. As the fire takes off, add a couple 2x4 cut offs, then a couple 4" thick splits. Let them get burning well and close the door. Let the fire grow and once it is burning strongly close the air down 50% or until the flames just start to get lazy. Let us know if that works.

PS: How tall is the chimney on the fireplace?

 

[al buquerque]

Thanks Begreen. Good info.

The seasoned cedar wood I'm using and the fire building technique (Boy Scout as a kid. FWIW?) seem to be working very well. The only real problem is having to leave the doors cracked open to get the fire to burn properly. Not just during initial lighting and burn-down but all the time.

You and others have mentioned the "air wash system for the glass" but I see no evidence of anything like that on my Northstar. I've taken the bricks out and re examined it all trying to see some sort of air holes in some logical place near the glass front to provide an air wash but I'm seeing nothing. Just solid welded steel everywhere with no openings of any kind. My glass is sooting up very quickly, unless the front doors are left opened about 1/8" to provide a makeshift air wash.

It's Monday now and the factory reps should be available back in Iowa, so I think I'll see if I can talk to them about this.

REALLY appreciate everyone's help.

 

[al buquerque]

Sorry...forgot to mention the chimney length. It's 24 feet straight up.

 

[pen]

Have you double checked that the baffle and blanket are in place and all the way back in the stove?

Are you getting any smoke in the house while burning?

 

[al buquerque]

Have you double checked that the baffle and blanket are in place and all the way back in the stove?

Are you getting any smoke in the house while burning?

Yes the baffle and blanket are all the way back. I get some smoke smell in the room when I open the doors to load more wood. It usually dissipates quickly.

My exterior air source for the combustion box is located in a very difficult place to get at, which is under my deck crawl space. I can access the insulated flex piping in my interior crawl space...but...my insulators spray foamed all around the connection to the vent exit. I'll have to cut into the flex tube and install a splice just to look down the pipe to make sure it's not blocked or bent somehow. I guess that will be my next move to try at this point.

Thanks.

 

[al buquerque]

I sat on hold for thirty minutes to talk to a factory rep but ran out of time. Gerr! Try again later.

 

[al buquerque]

Spent an hour crawling through my crawl space, cutting into the outside air feed line flex tubeing and checking to see that it was open. There is tons of cold air rushing in. So the outside air source is clean and connected all the way into the firebox air inlet. Next I will try and find something that will emit some smoke and I will place it right by the inlet baffle to see if it comes into the firebox. What a PITA!

 

[m159267]

I had a similar situation with my FP10 when attempting my first fire.
It turned out that even though I had a 25+ foot chimney the top needed to be extended another 3' due to a poor draw.

Try a top-down fire which will help with the draw and leave the door slightly open until a really good flame is present.
Close the door with the air wide open.
If it starts to smother crack the door again.
Hopefully you will get a steady flame with the door closed.
Once that happens then slowly close the air over a span of several minutes keeping a watchful eye on the flame.

 

[begreen]

High altitude installations do need more chimney but 24 ft straight up should draft well, even in at that altitude. Is it possible that the wood may not be as well seasoned as thought? Try one fire with the construction cut offs to see if that makes a large difference.

 

[al buquerque]

I think the draw is good. If I open the doors I can feel the air from the house being drawn up the flu. Feels like it might suck me in...sort'a.

I did the smoky stick test with the service covers removed from the lower air inlet area. I put a smoky kindling stick right in front of the outside air baffle door and opened it. Air rushed right in and got the stick glowing. So the air is definitely into the lower air baffling area. I tried to leave the stick in there still smoking and close the service cover and the glass doors, to see if I could see smoke coming out of the manifold tubes or the air curtain area. (I finally figured out the air curtain slot and a few air holes above them.) Unfortunately the lighting was not good enough to look through the glass and see if any smoke was coming out. So no great luck there.

So at this point, I think I have one of three things going on:

1) There is some sort of factory defect during the construction of the unit that they forgot to open up some sort of baffling up where I cannot see and there is no air getting into the box or the manifold tubes. HIGHLY UNLIKELY but humanly possible.

2) I know for a fact that the installers dropped the fireplace when wrestling it into the house. There was just one corner slightly bent from the drop and it was straightened out. Possibly something got bent or smacked out of place to block the airflow. Also UNLIKELY.

3) My wood sucks much more than I think it does, as mentioned by several of you.

My neighbor up the street has offered to let me use a little of his wood in my unit, to see if it makes a difference. I know for a fact that his wood has seasoned properly for at least two years and burns very well in his fireplace.

And so the mystery continues.

 

[begreen]

Dropping the fireplace is not good. Can you feel the outside air control working?

Mod Daksy has installed this unit and may have some insight. Paging @DAKSY, Northstar problem waiting in the lobby.

 

[al buquerque]

Dropping the fireplace is not good. Can you feel the outside air control working?

Mod Daksy has installed this unit and may have some insight. Paging @DAKSY, Northstar problem waiting in the lobby.

Yes the outside air control is working properly. I took everything apart so that I could see back into the incoming air plenum and I can actually see the air baffle opening and closing as I twist the control knob. The door has a good seal when closed with no binding or warping going on with that part.

All great info though and very much appreciated.

 

[DAKSY]

Yes the outside air control is working properly. I took everything apart so that I could see back into the incoming air plenum and I can actually see the air baffle opening and closing as I twist the control knob. The door has a good seal when closed with no binding or warping going on with that part.

All great info though and very much appreciated.

You say the plenum is working. Can you feel if there is air coming in?
IIRC, there is a knock-out that has to be removed BEFORE the OAK
is attached & run to the outside...You can test this by going outside &
checking with an incense stick or a cigarette or cigar - something that
gives off a stream of smoke...Open the plenum & see if the smoke is
drawn in thru the termination cap...

 

[al buquerque]

You say the plenum is working. Can you feel if there is air coming in?
IIRC, there is a knock-out that has to be removed BEFORE the OAK
is attached & run to the outside...You can test this by going outside &
checking with an incense stick or a cigarette or cigar - something that
gives off a stream of smoke...Open the plenum & see if the smoke is
drawn in thru the termination cap...

Yes there is good air flow and the knockout was removed. I did the incense stick trick right inside of the plenum door on the side of the firebox. I have no easy access to the outside air inlet due to it's location. (As mentioned prior in this thread.)

I'm burning it now with my neighbors WELL SEASONED wood and it seems to be working well. I now can see a reaction when I move the lever back and forth to choke down the air flow.

The biggest difference is purposely leaving the glass doors ajar just a little to get a good fire roaring before closing them up. THEN it works okay with the outside air source.

A good learning lesson and I thank everyone for their input.
Al