No ignition - frustrated! Need help...

[cptmoney]

Hello ladies and gentlemen...

I'm new to the forum, having found you all while looking for some answers to this:

I have a '07 Country Stoves Winslow PS40 pellet stove. It's worked incredibly well for the year and a half that's been installed (we purchased it new), and we've been in love with pellet stoves ever since.

Until this morning.

I woke up to find the house freezing, and the pellet stove just sitting, exhaust fan blowing. I restarted it, tried to get it to ignite and take off, but it just wouldn't happen.

I've tried everything I know to do, including emptying the ash pan, cleaning the blowers, cleaning the "T" section of the exhaust flue, verified that the burn pot is completely clean, cleaning the flue gas passages, and checking the igniter fuse. I can see the igniter getting red-hot, but no pellets will light up - what gives?

Do igniters ever "go bad" and still get hot - but not hot enough? Any chance I just have a bad bag of pellets that are just incredibly tough to light? I know I'm reaching here...but I want to get it fixed.

The only thing I've not done is have the stove professionally cleaned and the flue professionally swept. I don't think the flue itself is blocked/clogged, as when I pop off the end of the "T" of the clean-out, I can feel cold air pounding down the flue. It might still need swept, but it's far from occluded.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm all ears -

What makes the igniter actually light the pellets? I know the super-heated air does it, but what draws the hot air into the burn pot? Is there a chance that the airflow headed out and up the flue isn't strong enough to draw in the super-heated air? Once I recognize that it's not going to ignite (it starts in on the second wave of pellet dumping, and quickly fills up the burn pot), I can kill the stove, reach in and handle the burn pot bare-handed. It's warm, but far from being hot enough to light up. I can touch the igniter tube, and it's hot, but it's not scorching - thus the question about how the super-heated air finds its way to the burn pot. Could the airflow somewhere but just restricted enough to keep the super-heated air from doing its job and lighting the pellets? Do I simply need a new igniter?

I'm stumped.

I live in a rural area in Western Colorado, and to have a guy come out will be hundreds of dollars. The drive time alone will take an hour or two. That being said, if there's something simple that I can do to repair it, it will most definitely be worth it in the savings.

I would really appreciate anyone's input on this one -

cptmoney

 

[grstewart2000]

I have the same exact stove and year and can testify that 3 days ago I accidentally touched the igniter while working in the back of the stove and it turned the skin white it was so hot. My guess would be the igniter needs replacing. Also check the damper, maybe it got pushed into the closed position which means it's not allowing enough air for ignition (damper position found in manual). Hope that helps! Greg

 

[crausch]

I am not sure if all ignitors work exactly the same but for the Harman, when the igniter first comes on the burnpot should feel warm to the touch in
30 seconds. It should be too hot to touch in about a 1 minute. To test, empty your burn pot and clean it. Then place some (not too many) pellets in the burn pot. Locate them close to where the igniter is. Then turn on the stove so the igniter comes on. You should be able to see smoke or smell the smoke within 30 seconds.

[UPDATED] - Also make sure that you have the proper voltage at your source outlet. If the voltage is low for some reason, the igniter will not work properly. I think once the voltage drops below 108v the igniter fails to operate.

 

[cptmoney]

grstewart2000: My manual says nothing about a damper; I do have a small paragraph on the "draft adjuster" - think that's it? It's in front of the combustion blower, and says it's to be adjusted when the fuel is burning faster than it can be fed to the burn pot. That's definitely NOT my problem! I can't get anything to burn! Where can I find that damper?

codebum: Also, the voltage drop seems unlikely. I've used the stove right where it's at now for 18 months or so. Nothing out of the ordinary in the house is on that might draw voltage away from the outlet, so I've no idea why it's glowing hot, but still not lighting the pellets.

Does anyone know how I can test the igniter? Is there a measure of ohms that I should be comparing? I can't do the "put just a few pellets in the burn pot" and try to light it, because as soon as I tell the stove to light the igniter, pellets start feeding...and the burn pot will be loaded in a hurry if no flame shows up.

Thanks for the input so far. I'm still looking for a cure....

cptmoney

 

[mlobitz]

I'll help you...yes, you need another ignitor. Here's how I know...I had the same thing happen about two months ago. The ignitors are about $90 so buy two...you'll need 'em. Here is what to check: set the burnpot up in such a way that you can catch the pellets as they come out but also in a way that you can see the end of the ignitor tube. Start the stove... I'm betting the end is not burning red hot. The other end where you see that flimsy clamp holding the ignitor in place will be red hot, but the other end that touches the burn pot will not. Here's why...the ignitor has a coil inside of it. Over time the coil breaks somewhere in the line and everything on the other side of that break stops working. Yes, the area gets hot, just not hot enough...it's easy to replace, just be really careful with the wires that connect to the main board. Just move slowly and carefully. The damper is located behind the right side door. Once the door is open it is near the bottom left of the exhaust/combustion fan. It's a piece of metal that slides back and forth.

One more thing...check to see if the ignitor is loose. It happens. It needs to touch the burnpot. Put the burnpot back in place, loosen the ignitor clamp, press it up to the burnpot and tighten it up. That may also do the trick.

BUY TWO if you need another one. They go about every two years. Trust me I know, I'm on number three...it's a good stove, but it needs maintenance...

 

[cptmoney]

mlobitz : thank you!

I have been wondering about the igniter this whole time; I'm glad to hear that you've experienced the same problem (wait - that came out wrong!) and have been able to chase down a solution. It's a relief to hear from someone who's been where I am...and made it out ok.

I'm wondering if the igniter is covered under some sort of warranty; the paperwork says all electrical components are covered for 3 years. The igniter, however, may be more of a maintenance type product. Oh well; I'll just be glad to see some flame in 'er belly.

I'll order them today and see what happens.

I appreciate everyone's help! I love the internet, I tell ya...

cptmoney

 

[mlobitz]

If you just bought the stove you are covered. I had the first two igniters replaced free of charge. Don't let your dealer tell you otherwise or charge you a penny. Your stove shop can be your best friend or worst enemy.

Also, the guy in New Jersey who handles the parts for Lennox(the company that owes Country now) is a good guy. He knows his stuff and can help you out if need be.

Good luck.

 

[cptmoney]

mlobitz - you don't happen to have to have the name of the gentleman whom I need to visit with, do you?

Nobody around here will give me a phone number to Country/Lennox direct; they're all expecting me to deal with them.

thanks -

cptmoney

 

[imacman]

cptmoney, I'm not familiar with your stove, but something I remember from another thread a while back....is it possible that the ignitor somehow got pushed away from the burn pot?

The other thread I mentioned was the same problem...the ignitor seemed to be OK, but wouldn't light the pellets. It ended up that the ignitor was supposed to be very close to the burn pot (touching or almost touching?), but it had gotten "out of adjustment" (pushed back), and was simply too far away to get them hot enough.

Not sure this is possible with your stove, but thought I'd throw it out there anyway.....good luck.

 

[cptmoney]

macman: I plan on checking this tonight. I'll check on the distance, make sure it's not loose and pushed back, and see if that makes her come to life.

I have a feeling it's the igniter, though. The burn pot just doesn't feel anywhere close to being hot enough to light up anything. It looks hot on the exposed back end, but the front part of the igniter just isn't getting it done.

I'm planning on spending a few minutes on the phone this pm trying to chase down the replacement parts, which I believe should be covered under warranty.

Thanks for all the great advice - I'm anxious to try out these solutions!

cptmoney

 

[imacman]

Just saw that mlobitz's post above did mention the same thing I just did.....that the ignitor clamp may have come loose (vibration will do that), allowing the ignitor to move away from the burn pot. You DID mention in your first post that you saw the "ignitor got red hot".....if it's not touching the burn pot, the pellets may not get hot enough to burn.

 

[cptmoney]

Hey guys -

Quick question: the igniter has a small hole near the rear, where the wires hook up to it. The opening is RIGHT AT the start of the metal box that houses the igniter tube itself.

Can I push it in any further? Or is it in as far as it should be? I'm a bit nervous about pushing that hole into the metal box, because I'm not sure where the air would come from to head into the burn pot if I push it in past where it's at. Does that make sense?

Any thoughts?

cptmoney

 

[cptmoney]

To top it all off, Country Stoves has been swallowed up by Lennox Stoves.

Not even sure where to begin in order to have this part replaced. The dealer I purchased the stove from is no longer in the pellet stove business...

It's the perfect storm, I tell ya -

cptmoney

 

[imacman]

I can't vouch for this company, but their in Conifer, Colorado:

(broken link removed to http://www.inglenookenergy.com/Stoves/stoves.htm)

 

[mlobitz]

Pellet Stove replacement parts
Specialty Parts - New Jersey
Contact: Jim 1-800-331-9234 ext. 211

No tax, pay only shipping

ignitor $88.20
auger motor $92.40
combustion/eshaust fan $149.10
blower fan $129.70
control board $390.10

 

[woodsman23]

If it is glowing then i say it is just out of alignment. I would try pushing it into place and then load some pellets up against that side of the burn pot and let her rip for a time and see what happens. You could also light it manually with a bit of gel/hand sanitizer/whatever.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

if ya need it bad , light it manually with gel or wax/sawdust starter medium , or if you do not have that toss some pellets in the pot , turn it on and hit em with a plumbers torch for a coupke minuts then shut the door, if the stove is on a stat which turns the stove on and off , disable that until you get the situation figured out , that way you could run a lower heat range and let the stove run continuously without having it cycle off when it cannot relight.

FWIW , the tempco igniters we use do not seem to get "weak" when they go they go all the way , so there is nothing at all heat wise, if these igniters and yours are the same i'd expect alignment or a blockage not allowing air into the igniter sleeve as the cause not a"weak" igniter.

"hedge' if these arent the same type however i could be wrong

 

[mlobitz]

if ya need it bad , light it manually with gel or wax/sawdust starter medium , or if you do not have that toss some pellets in the pot , turn it on and hit em with a plumbers torch for a coupke minuts then shut the door, if the stove is on a stat which turns the stove on and off , disable that until you get the situation figured out , that way you could run a lower heat range and let the stove run continuously without having it cycle off when it cannot relight.

FWIW , the tempco igniters we use do not seem to get "weak" when they go they go all the way , so there is nothing at all heat wise, if these igniters and yours are the same i'd expect alignment or a blockage not allowing air into the igniter sleeve as the cause not a"weak" igniter.

"hedge' if these arent the same type however i could be wrong

The only reason I know that these igniters break in the middle somewhere is that I've seen it...twice...the coil inside the igniter snaps and there you go...a "weak" igniter. As far as lighting the Winslow manually, here is what you do. Take a couple of small wax sawdust starters and light them in the pot. Surround them with a few pellets to hold them up. Let them burn for about a minute or so. You will see about a 4-6 inch flame. Then turn on the exhaust fan, but DO NOT hit start. Let the pellets in the burnpot begin to ignite with the combustion air. BTW the combustion fan and exhaust fan are the same on the Winslow. Anyway...let it go until you get some red hot pellets and then hit start. It will dump some more pellets in and then you're off. Set it on low, set your stat to 90, if you have one so it won't shut off and wait two weeks for the igniter to come in the mail. ORDER TWO!

 

[cptmoney]

Well guys, I believe that mlobitz is the winner...

I came home this evening, removed the burn pot to where I could see the end of the igniter and igniter tube, and fired it up. I just let the pellets dump into the metal box that surrounds the burn pot, and waited. The wire end/back end of the igniter was glowing red, but the burn pot end was black as could be. Nothing.

I also checked the alignment; that igniter is not loose at all! I couldn't get it to budge. It hasn't moved since it was installed, judging from the rigid position it's in.

Thanks for the manual lighting tips! I hadn't thought of doing that, but I will do it right away. It's not my only source of heat, but my cheapest, so I miss it when it's gone. I'll light it manually and set the thermostat to 90 and just let it run. That's really a great idea! I truly hadn't thought of doing that.

I'll order the replacement igniter tomorrow, and am looking forward to getting her back into top shape. I'll keep you posted.

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate your wisdom; you guys are lifesavers!

cptmoney

 

[imacman]

Glad you got it figured out. Now, I think a case of some sort of cold refreshing beverage should be shipped to mlobitz..... ;-)

 

[cptmoney]

Man, mlobitz! You are GOOD!

The stove lit up nicely, and is running great! Your instructions were crystal clear. I'll be sure to order a pair of the igniters, so I have an extra for the next time.

What else do I need to know about these Winslow stoves? Anything else I need to be on the lookout for? You are the Winslow MASTER!

Have you thought about being a teacher or something? Man, right on the money. I'm very impressed.

And to you all - muchas gracias. You guys have probably saved me a few hundred dollars (if not more). If you're ever in my neck of the woods, please give me a shout. I'm buying.

For what it's worth, all the local dealers (the three that are all 75 miles or more away!) said that the igniter was NOT a covered warranty item. When I got on the phone to Lennox (who now owns Country Stoves), the guy didn't hesitate a second when he said of course the igniter IS, in fact, a covered electrical item. I know that not all dealers operate their store at this level, but I was frustrated to say the least. I don't get to make the warranty claim, but suffice it to say that it pays to read the fine print and make a few extra calls yourself. [The warranty claim is being denied because we purchased the stove from a local public radio auction; it was new, donated from one of the aforementioned dealers, but because we purchased through the radio station and not an authorized dealer, it voids all warranty. That's ok; the warranty only covered the part and $65 toward authorized service tech labor. The authorized service techs in my neck of the woods were going to charge me twice that just to come diagnose the problem due to the distance they'd be traveling, then charge me another $150 come back with the marked up parts and install them! Go figure. That's how I figure you all saved me a few hundred bucks, easily.]

I'll keep you posted on the new igniter -

cptmoney

 

[investor7952]

I am not sure if all ignitors work exactly the same but for the Harman, when the igniter first comes on the burnpot should feel warm to the touch in
30 seconds. It should be too hot to touch in about a 1 minute. To test, empty your burn pot and clean it. Then place some (not too many) pellets in the burn pot. Locate them close to where the igniter is. Then turn on the stove so the igniter comes on. You should be able to see smoke or smell the smoke within 30 seconds.

[UPDATED] - Also make sure that you have the proper voltage at your source outlet. If the voltage is low for some reason, the igniter will not work properly. I think once the voltage drops below 108v the igniter fails to operate.

Do you know what silicone spray is safe to use on combustion motor blades?The book says after cleaning spray with silicone spray but I dont know if a WD40 is good to use.

 

[crausch]

investor7952 Posted: 30 January 2009 09:58 AM
Do you know what silicone spray is safe to use on combustion motor blades?

I have not personally done this yet but there is a oil called “Zoom Spout Oil” (by Blue Lake Products) which is only a couple dollars and is good for electric motors.

You should be able to use any oil for use on electric motors ibecause it is non-sticky and does not hold dust. I would think that WD40 and other similar lubricants would just cause the ash to adhear to the fan even more quickly.

 

[imacman]

..... I don't get to make the warranty claim.......[The warranty claim is being denied because we purchased the stove from a local public radio auction; it was new, donated from one of the aforementioned dealers, but because we purchased through the radio station and not an authorized dealer, it voids all warranty.......]

IMO, that is a bunch of CRAP! What is the difference where you got the stove????? It was new, and came from an "authorized" dealer in the first place. Was it Lennox that said the warranty was invalid, or the dealer?

 

[cptmoney]

It was the Lennox guys. The warranty guy was especially helpful, and he felt bad about it all. He put me on hold for about 10 minutes while he chased down enough "higher ups" to validate the fact that the stove was not covered under warranty before he came back on the line to tell me the bad news.

He did say that once I'm finished with the repair that I should write a letter to the Lennox corporate offices, addressed to the warranty division. He said he would personally argue on my behalf if in fact the part was bad and I could prove a purchase date. I intend to do this once the new parts are here and installed, and the stove is back to working condition. It's not a tremendous amount of money, but it all adds up, right? And it's about doing the right thing, which is covering what you say you're going to warranty. We'll see what happens. I was disappointed, but still glad that I'll be able to make the repair myself. I'd rather spend $100 than $500, any day.

It could be much worse, so I'm content.

cptmoney