NOB... looking for some recomendations with what I want.

[joshuaboston]

Hi,

I have never owned a stove or even had a fire place. I am looking for recommendations for my fit and I also have a few questions.

I have recently purchased a home which has a very nice fireplace that has a backflow issue, therefore not useable, I actually need a window opened all the way to solve my backdraft issue. I thought that if I put a stove in my fire place that would solve the issue, when I went to a store, they told me that installing a stove may not fix my back draft issue.

I have read many thread and I can't seem to get the straight answers that I want hence this post....

My place is about 1800 square feet with a very opened floor plan, perfect for a stove. I want a wood stove (not a pellet stove). My most important concern is emissions, I have a very small child an I am worried about asthma and I want a low emission, so I want a CAT. Because the stove will go into the fire place it can not have any doors that open in the sides. I can have the top open because the stove will be recessed slightly out of the fireplace ( I have about 20" to play with). My dimensions are 28" HIGH and 39" wide. I have a corner fireplace so an insert is no good.

I was leaning towards the Vermont Casting Encore Flex Burn... but there seems to be a lot of people bashing Vermont Casting. I am pretty opened to what kind of stove as long as it has a front open and (optional) top opening only and it must be low emissions. I am a complete NOB in this subject and was hopping for some recommendations.

Thank you in advance.
Josh

 

[begreen]

Welcome Josh. Can you explain the backflow problem. Do you get smoke spilling out when you try to run it? The height of the opening will restrict options for freestanding. Why no insert? Is this a pre-fab fireplace? How tall is the chimney?

Pics are always welcome.

 

[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum!

Those are some pretty strict requirements. I know of only one cat stove that can be rear-vented, is large enough and whose flue would fit under your lintel: the Woodstock Progress Hybrid with the short leg kit. You will have to check whether your hearth can accommodate that stove and leave you still with enough clearance to combustibles. However, it is a dedicated side-loader. (As an aside, very few toploaders are out there.)

There are a few inserts that have low emissions and should be able to heat 1800 sqft: BlazeKing Princess, Regency CI2600, and the Lopi Large Flush Hybrid. It would be good to know which kind of fireplace you have to see whether any of those would work.

If it is a prefab fireplace and given your other requirements, have you thought about removing everything, finish a nice hearth there or somewhere else and install a freestanding stove with its own chimney pipe? You would have more models to chose from; the BlazeKing Ashford 30 is a highly regarded cat stove here.

Please feel free to research the VC Encore in the forum. You should find several threads of actual owners that burned in that stove for a few years. As I recall, the response has been pretty mixed. It is not uncommon for that stove to require a costly rebuilt of the firebox after just a few years of regular use.

What kind of chimney do you have currently: Masonry or metal pipe? If you have problems with downdrafting it could mean that your home is losing air somewhere else and pulls makeup air through the chimney. You may want to look into your attic that your living space is properly air-sealed. An energy audit with blower door test should also reveal any air leaks. If the problem is simply because the chimney gets too cold, an insulated liner to the top of the chimney could help with that.

 

[brad wilton]

Welcome to the forum.might be a clogged chimney did you have it inspected when you bought the house ,could be it needs a good cleaning.a lot of people are not up to snuff on useing dry wood till they hit this forum,me included .maybe previous owner burnt wet wood or could be bird nest never know .my two cents that is ussually worth one .lol

 

[bholler]

we really do need some more info to help you out. What type of fire place is it? Pics would help out. Does opening the window help the smoke problem? Are you asthma concerns about smoke in the house or total emissions?

 

[joshuaboston]

Welcome Josh. Can you explain the backflow problem. Do you get smoke spilling out when you try to run it? The height of the opening will restrict options for freestanding. Why no insert? Is this a pre-fab fireplace? How tall is the chimney?

Pics are always welcome.

We have been living in this townhouse for about three years. I have a beautiful very large raised brick fire place, I will upload a picture soon. When we lite a fire there is a lot of smoke that goes into the house... so much so that I have only lite a fire once. I thought a wood stove would solve this problem. The chimney I believe is higher then 13 feet.

 

[joshuaboston]

we really do need some more info to help you out. What type of fire place is it? Pics would help out. Does opening the window help the smoke problem? Are you asthma concerns about smoke in the house or total emissions?

Total emissions.

My brother-in law who purchased a home with a non cat non efficient wood stove burned a ton of wood cause oil was so expensive... five years later two of his three kids have asthma, I can't say it was the stove but when we visited one winter the entire home smelled like he had the fire place going.

 

[begreen]

We have been living in this townhouse for about three years. I have a beautiful very large raised brick fire place, I will upload a picture soon. When we lite a fire there is a lot of smoke that goes into the house... so much so that I have only lite a fire once. I thought a wood stove would solve this problem. The chimney I believe is higher then 13 feet.

That doesn't sound good. The first thing to check is for an obstruction in the flue or a damper not opening correctly. If that checks out as ok, it could be that the fireplace is in a negative pressure zone. Understanding the issue is important. A stove may have the same problems if the cause is not addressed.

How many floors in the townhouse? What floor is the fireplace on?

FWIW, you should not smell any woodsmoke in the house with a properly running stove. It's possible that your BIL's stove is not setup correctly, has too weak draft or is being run improperly. If the stove itself is leaky it needs to be fixed or replaced.

 

[joshuaboston]

Welcome to the forum.might be a clogged chimney did you have it inspected when you bought the house ,could be it needs a good cleaning.a lot of people are not up to snuff on useing dry wood till they hit this forum,me included .maybe previous owner burnt wet wood or could be bird nest never know .my two cents that is ussually worth one .lol

My neighbor has the same problem, the chimney looks very clean. And the wood that I am burning is like 10 years old! I took it from my mother-in law who stopped making fires many years ago, basically the wood is totally dry.

First off, I don't even think the all brick chimney as a lining. My neighbor has the same problem, she blames the developer, she says the chimney is totally straight and because there is no bend at all it has caused the backflow problem. She spend much money and , doors installed.

 

[Grisu]

My brother-in law who purchased a home with a non cat non efficient wood stove burned a ton of wood cause oil was so expensive... five years later two of his three kids have asthma, I can't say it was the stove but when we visited one winter the entire home smelled like he had the fire place going.

That does not sound good. If he is still burning try to get him to sign up here. There could be several potential issues causing this and several would be due to an improper install. That needs to be addressed, not just to reduce the smoke smell and from keeping the asthma from getting worse but also to make sure he does not burn his house down one day.

I have a beautiful very large raised brick fire place, I will upload a picture soon.

Take also a picture up the flue to see what kind of chimney/damper you have. When was the chimney cleaned?

 

[joshuaboston]

Hi guys,

Thanks for helping choose a proper stove that is efficient (low carbon production).

As promised here is my pictures... sorry about the mess . I also have a few pictures of my chimney... it is LONG!.

 

[joshuaboston]

Welcome to the forum!

Those are some pretty strict requirements. I know of only one cat stove that can be rear-vented, is large enough and whose flue would fit under your lintel: the Woodstock Progress Hybrid with the short leg kit. You will have to check whether your hearth can accommodate that stove and leave you still with enough clearance to combustibles. However, it is a dedicated side-loader. (As an aside, very few toploaders are out there.)

There are a few inserts that have low emissions and should be able to heat 1800 sqft: BlazeKing Princess, Regency CI2600, and the Lopi Large Flush Hybrid. It would be good to know which kind of fireplace you have to see whether any of those would work.

If it is a prefab fireplace and given your other requirements, have you thought about removing everything, finish a nice hearth there or somewhere else and install a freestanding stove with its own chimney pipe? You would have more models to chose from; the BlazeKing Ashford 30 is a highly regarded cat stove here.

Please feel free to research the VC Encore in the forum. You should find several threads of actual owners that burned in that stove for a few years. As I recall, the response has been pretty mixed. It is not uncommon for that stove to require a costly rebuilt of the firebox after just a few years of regular use.

What kind of chimney do you have currently: Masonry or metal pipe? If you have problems with downdrafting it could mean that your home is losing air somewhere else and pulls makeup air through the chimney. You may want to look into your attic that your living space is properly air-sealed. An energy audit with blower door test should also reveal any air leaks. If the problem is simply because the chimney gets too cold, an insulated liner to the top of the chimney could help with that.

My limiting factor will be the 28" hight... and that is the complete hight of my fireplace opening, also no side doors.

Blazeking height... 33" height... no good

If I have to get the VC encore, then I will, but after hearing so many problems with VC encore... even though I like the look, I would rather get something else.

woodstock progress hybrid with short legs is 28.5" in height

 

[Grisu]

You would need to place the Progress in front of the fireplace on the brick hearth. Your hearth may be deep enough for that but you will need to place a hearth extension on the floor in front of the stove. Side-loading should not be an issue then. (Given that your fireplace is open from two sides may not be one even when you could recess it completely in the fireplace.)

28" is too low for most stoves. The Buck 80 is a cat stove and listed as 23.75" tall; not sure if that includes the flue outlet.

You could close the shorter open side with some brick or a decorative metal plate for example and then put an insert in there. As said, you will have more choices and won't lose more space for an extended hearth.

Does the chimney feel cold in the winter?

 

[joshuaboston]

Welcome to the forum!

Those are some pretty strict requirements. I know of only one cat stove that can be rear-vented, is large enough and whose flue would fit under your lintel: the Woodstock Progress Hybrid with the short leg kit. You will have to check whether your hearth can accommodate that stove and leave you still with enough clearance to combustibles. However, it is a dedicated side-loader. (As an aside, very few toploaders are out there.)

There are a few inserts that have low emissions and should be able to heat 1800 sqft: BlazeKing Princess, Regency CI2600, and the Lopi Large Flush Hybrid. It would be good to know which kind of fireplace you have to see whether any of those would work.

If it is a prefab fireplace and given your other requirements, have you thought about removing everything, finish a nice hearth there or somewhere else and install a freestanding stove with its own chimney pipe? You would have more models to chose from; the BlazeKing Ashford 30 is a highly regarded cat stove here.

Please feel free to research the VC Encore in the forum. You should find several threads of actual owners that burned in that stove for a few years. As I recall, the response has been pretty mixed. It is not uncommon for that stove to require a costly rebuilt of the firebox after just a few years of regular use.

What kind of chimney do you have currently: Masonry or metal pipe? If you have problems with downdrafting it could mean that your home is losing air somewhere else and pulls makeup air through the chimney. You may want to look into your attic that your living space is properly air-sealed. An energy audit with blower door test should also reveal any air leaks. If the problem is simply because the chimney gets too cold, an insulated liner to the top of the chimney could help with that.

I did an energy audit and had the attic redone with insulation. I seal all my windows during the winter with "seal'n peel" (it's a cocking that peals away); basically I have one pretty good air tight place. My total heating bill is less then $1,300.00 for the entire winter (gas with new high efficient furnace). I just want a nice fire to look at at night and perhaps help with warming up the home.

 

[joshuaboston]

You would need to place the Progress in front of the fireplace on the brick hearth. Your hearth may be deep enough for that but you will need to place a hearth extension on the floor in front of the stove. Side-loading should not be an issue then. (Given that your fireplace is open from two sides may no and t be one even when you could recess it completely in the fireplace.)

28" is too low for most stoves. The Buck 80 is a cat stove and listed as 23.75" tall; not sure if that includes the flue outlet.

You could close the shorter open side with some brick or a decorative metal plate for example and then put an insert in there. As said, you will have more choices and won't lose more space for an extended hearth.

Does the chimney feel cold in the winter?

I do expect to recess the stove partially out of the fire place (perhaps 75% out of the fire place and 25% inside the fire place), the fact that some of the stove will be in the fire place it needs to be less then 28" in height. And I don't think a side opening stove will work either just a front opening stove or maybe a top opening and a front opening. Would like a large window

The buck 80 looks almost perfect... would like a stove that is more efficient and lower carbon emissions. But I will put it on my list THANKS.

 

[Grisu]

I guess that's your problem right there. A fireplace needs a lot of air to get the smoke up the chimney and out the house. When everything is airtight no makeup air is coming in and the fireplace cannot establish a good draft. A stove will need less air but still good draft. You may need an outside air supply for your stove in order for it to draft properly. Does the fireplace has an ashdump?

 

[joshuaboston]

I guess that's your problem right there. A fireplace needs a lot of air to get the smoke up the chimney and out the house. When everything is airtight no makeup air is coming in and the fireplace cannot establish a good draft. A stove will need less air but still good draft. You may need an outside air supply for your stove in order for it to draft properly. Does the fireplace has an ashdump?

No Ash dump. I am hoping that a wood stove will solve the problem.

 

[therdlesstravld]

I think you may be confusing a stoves listed efficiency with what you perceive to be a smoke smell inside your BIL's house. The two dont correlate. If the stove has adequate draft, isn't in a negative pressure situation such as in a basement and your house is not outrageously air sealed then you will not have an issue with particulates coming back into the house. The listed emissions is what the stove puts out up the chimney and into the atmosphere, not into your living space.

You seem to have a lot going on with your setup that doesn't bode well for a free standing stove. I'd never recommend this to even my most yuppy of friends but maybe you'd be better off with a gas or electric log in there. You've got so much going against you that it could be a good choice.

Your height restrictions and aversions to altering the hearth are not giving you good options.
Your chimney probably isn't lined and you don't seem like your going to have it done.
I'm not even sure you checked to make sure the damper was open before you tried the one fire in it, that could legit be your issue.
Do you see yourself seasoning wood in your yard? Your supply from your mother in law will run out and then you'll most likely burn wet wood further exasperating your problem.

I'm not trying to be rude but you really need to make a good decision for yourself and i don't see a woodstove as a sound one.

 

[Grisu]

No Ash dump. I am hoping that a wood stove will solve the problem.

What a stove and a fireplace do is pull in air from the room, heat it up and send it together with the smoke up the chimney to the outside. Since air is constantly pulled out through the draft, somewhere fresh air has to come from the outside into the house again. If the house is airtight, no air can be made up, so no air will go up the chimney and smoke will accumulate in the home. A stove will not cure that. What you will most likely need is a duct that connects stove and an outside vent so the stove does not need to pull air from inside the house. That system is called an "outside air kit" (OAK). Having such a duct going through the ash dump would have been a good option. Without that you may need to drill a hole in the back of your fireplace if you want to pursue a stove install. The Buck 80 is not mobile home approved which likely means there is no available outside air connection; check the manual. Without the OAK you run the danger that the stove will also draft badly and not heat your home.

 

[begreen]

This looks like it may be a better set up for an insert instead of a freestanding stove. That will provide more options. Regardless a full 6" liner will need to be put in the chimney. Do you know what size the current tile in the chimney is?

 

[joshuaboston]

This looks like it may be a better set up for an insert instead of a freestanding stove. That will provide more options. Regardless a full 6" liner will need to be put in the chimney. Do you know what size the current tile in the chimney is?

I have no problem paying for a stainless steel insert, 6". I think I have plenty of space.

I kind of don't want a insert because I have two sides open and I don't want to block off one of the sides and I thought a stove would look nicer.

I have done a lot of research... and there are only a few stoves that fit my bill... (being that 28" in height seems to be my limiting factor).

So far I am between the Encore Flexburn by VC and the Buck 80... but I really want a high efficient stove that has ultra low emissions of carbon and the Encore Flexburn is rated much better then the Buck 80. But I am still completely opened to other stove models.

To further complicate the issue, I see in the future (in five years or so...) that our place will become a rental unit. I could always put in the Lease that they can not use the firestove, or I can get one that needs less maintenance.

 

[begreen]

An insert really may be the best option here. You won't see anything but the stove side anyway. The insert does not have to have the surround installed if you want a more open look. It sounds like this is essentially what you are thinking about with the Buck 80, which is a good choice.

The Encore Flex Burn is a clean stove. What is unknown is how well recent improvements will stand up. Also unknown is whether the current owners will stick with the stove. There have been many owners of Vermont Castings over the past couple decades.

 

[bholler]

So far I am between the Encore Flexburn by VC and the Buck 80... but I really want a high efficient stove that has ultra low emissions of carbon and the Encore Flexburn is rated much better then the Buck 80.

The lab numbers may show that but i can tell you from cleaning the flues on several of each stove the buck burns cleaner in the real world. You smoke problem from your fire place could be lack of enough air or simple the fact that it is a 2 sided fireplace. I have seen very few 2 sided fireplaces that worked well it just is a very hard design to get right and if you do get it right it needs a massive amount of air to work properly.

 

[joshuaboston]

I think you may be confusing a stoves listed efficiency with what you perceive to be a smoke smell inside your BIL's house. The two dont correlate. If the stove has adequate draft, isn't in a negative pressure situation such as in a basement and your house is not outrageously air sealed then you will not have an issue with particulates coming back into the house. The listed emissions is what the stove puts out up the chimney and into the atmosphere, not into your living space.

You seem to have a lot going on with your setup that doesn't bode well for a free standing stove. I'd never recommend this to even my most yuppy of friends but maybe you'd be better off with a gas or electric log in there. You've got so much going against you that it could be a good choice.

Your height restrictions and aversions to altering the hearth are not giving you good options.
Your chimney probably isn't lined and you don't seem like your going to have it done.
I'm not even sure you checked to make sure the damper was open before you tried the one fire in it, that could legit be your issue.
Do you see yourself seasoning wood in your yard? Your supply from your mother in law will run out and then you'll most likely burn wet wood further exasperating your problem.

I'm not trying to be rude but you really need to make a good decision for yourself and i don't see a woodstove as a sound one.

Wow...
I am a little confused. Yes I have a height restriction 28", another poster referenced that the draft issue is most likey due to having a two sided fireplace.

My chimney is not lined... but of couse I plan to have it done I figure a new liner suited to the stove would solve my issues regarding draft.

And yes, I am a NOB but of course I had the dampner opened up to the max when I started my fire... like I said my neigbors have the same issue as me, I don't believe it is becuase I sealed my place as much as possible.

I will not put a gas or electric fireplace in... I am really sorry to hear that is what you recommend.

 

[Grisu]

I figure a new liner suited to the stove would solve my issues regarding draft.

It might but did you read my post? https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...dations-with-what-i-want.144970/#post-1954595

Do you have a plan B should stove+liner still not draft well?