Nokoni PLEASE explain your setup

[elkimmeg]

I may have miss- understood what your question was. Please explain with details measurements what your setup is. What type of double wall pipe you used and the manufactures clearances to combustibles. If you can post a picture showing stove to the wall breached and from the rear to where you are venting into the chimney. There is a difference in material being fire resistant, to being non-combustible

 

[Nokoni]

I may have miss- understood what your question was. Please explain with details measurements what your setup is. What type of double wall pipe you used and the manufactures clearances to combustibles. If you can post a picture showing stove to the wall breached and from the rear to where you are venting into the chimney. There is a difference in material being fire resistant, to being non-combustible

Hey elk, I don't have a picture of the connect area because it is now sealed but I'll try my best to explain. I have 14" behind my stove, the double wall runs out the back of the stove to connect to the connector and the chimney. It is Simpson Dura-vent and says 6" to combustibles. The double wall runs through the Micore 300 with about 1" air space around the pipe where there is a metal ring-the thing that hides your hole in the wall. So, right behind the Micore is a hole (old fireplace) that is about 2 1/2' wide x 3' tall x 6"-10" deep. That is where the connections are made and back there is just old brick. As for my stove manual, with the rear heatshield (included) and double wall pipe you need 14" in the rear to combustibles. The stove installers said I could be 6" because the Micore is non combustible but I wanted to play it safe and by then I had alread cut a hole in my floor for the hearth and was fine with the 14". The instructions for the double wall, which I didn't get until they installed, says "DO NOT ENCLOSE DOUBLE WALL CONNECTOR PIPE OR FITTINGS and/or pass through walls, ceilings, attics or closets" My dad said I'm not passing through those things but I feel like I'm passing through a wall and enclosing the pipe. The double wall is bolted to the connector behind the wall. What do you think? Thanks in advance for you kind help!

 

[elkimmeg]

so if I have this correct there is a wall covering in front of your existing chimney It is not a wall separating rooms? just a covering in front of the venting chimney? you removed the plaster sheet rock aand installed milcor which you cut a round hole to the chimney behind it using all double wall pipe even as the chimney connector or did you convert to a piece of single wall to pass through the bricks and to the existing liner? If you used double wall and the single wall is only exposed passing throught the bricks then, I feel your double wall pipe is ok for that purpose. There are two issues here, the double wall pipe you are using can not be used through a wall conection. The correct pipe and connection is 2" to combustiables using the correct wall thimble However you are not passing through a party wall but just a wall covering. Second issue is the micor 300 is it as non conbustiable enough for safety there is also micor 500 that is affords more protection. To be honset I read the manufactures claims and I do have a bit of caution as you too have expressed. Enought so that you have posted numerous times. When in doubt eror on the side of safety. Two solutions come to mind that will solve this delimar, one purchase the correct through the wall thimble, or remove the milcor and replace it with cemnet board. Cutting the hole in cement board is a lot harder but can be done. Mark it out and punch through the center with a hammer attach a masonry blade to a saber saw and cut the round hole. Dry wall screws can be used to attach to your existing studs. The wood studs should be 6" away if double wall is used all the way to the bricks with no single wall pipe exposed. If any single wall is exposed then, 18" to combustiables applies in all directions.

 

[Nokoni]

so if I have this correct there is a wall covering in front of your existing chimney It is not a wall separating rooms? just a covering in front of the venting chimney? you removed the plaster sheet rock aand installed milcor which you cut a round hole to the chimney behind it using all double wall pipe even as the chimney connector or did you convert to a piece of single wall to pass through the bricks and to the existing liner? If you used double wall and the single wall is only exposed passing throught the bricks then, I feel your double wall pipe is ok for that purpose. There are two issues here, the double wall pipe you are using can not be used through a wall conection. The correct pipe and connection is 2" to combustiables using the correct wall thimble However you are not passing through a party wall but just a wall covering. Second issue is the micor 300 is it as non conbustiable enough for safety there is also micor 500 that is affords more protection. To be honset I read the manufactures claims and I do have a bit of caution as you too have expressed. Enought so that you have posted numerous times. When in doubt eror on the side of safety. Two solutions come to mind that will solve this delimar, one purchase the correct through the wall thimble, or remove the milcor and replace it with cemnet board. Cutting the hole in cement board is a lot harder but can be done. Mark it out and punch through the center with a hammer attach a masonry blade to a saber saw and cut the round hole. Dry wall screws can be used to attach to your existing studs. The wood studs should be 6" away if double wall is used all the way to the bricks with no single wall pipe exposed. If any single wall is exposed then, 18" to combustiables applies in all directions.

It is not a wall separating rooms, it is plaster covering the brick but there was an old mantel that we removed and an old gas fixture-there was no plaster behind that, just the old brick opening from I think an old coal chimney. The double wall goes behind the wall about 4" and connects to the chimney connector which attaches to the liner. Do I need a different brand of double wall? Will my stove guy have the thimble? There are no wood studs within three feet of this situation. The single wall connector is exposed but only to bricks. I have a call into the Micore guy. If he says it is safe this way should I believe him?

 

[Nokoni]

Elk, another question, from what I understood the Micore was better in R value and K value and combustimbles than cement board. Am I totally wrong about this?

 

[elkimmeg]

Right on the r value but cement board will absorbe heat which will get re transmitted back to the room not a lot but some


Latter on I am going to request a POST ON ATACTUAL TEMPS RECORDED ON SINGLE WALL AND DOUBLE WALL PIPE


If I can get a large sampling we can draw conclusions
So here is your experiment
Place a magnetic stove thermometer on the top of your double wall pipe. ( next to the micor passage) Fire off your stove in the normal manner and record that temp on the pipe, take a couple readings. Here what I am looking for. Code allows 90 degrees above the ambience temp as being safe to combustiables 70 + 90 = 160 If you thermo reads far above 160 approaching 200 then time to re-think. If 160 or less you just answered all your concerns, as the heat is low enought it will not ignite.
Got to run on lunch break I'm in the middle of finishing the stairway from hell. What ever happened to craftsmanship? The guy that framed these stairs was clue less. He did not have basic knowledge of using a level or square.. Reminds me of some stove installers.

 

[Nokoni]

Great, I'll try the experiment and post later. What about the pipe being enclosed behind the Micore though? See any problem with that? Good luck on your stairs!

 

[elkimmeg]

Lets see what the temps are first remember top of the pipe near the wall entry

Stairs so bad I called in two experts to figure them out. good thing the homeowner was not present
as the language got rough. I mean I have seen bad this has to be the worst. I called in the building inspector of that town, also to examine what the problems exist. The 4 of us brain trust the situation. There is no amount of shimming possible or cutting, that can adjust these stairs to code compliance. Problem if I add shim or cut the adjacent stair now becomes a code violation. I correct one and make 2 non compliant. This is a new addition the stair opening is not square. Compounding the issues,is the stairs turn
90 degrees the bottom run and top run are completely different riser distances Within one run. The top step is 6" the bottom is 8.5 and eveny one inbetween is different, out of plumb level and square the stringers are tipped and run cockeyed. One solution is to rip them out and start over. but supporting walls and a post and reworking the floor joist in a fully plastered setup is going to cost a lot of money Not to mention the fues pannel on the back side of the wall that would have to be removed. Another solution is to walk away from the job. It is hard being an inspector knowing, no matter what I end up with is not code compliant. 3 weeks interior finish in 60 degree heat, snow on the ground, is real hard to pass, especially this time of year

 

[Nokoni]

That doesn't sound good. I'm sure it is really hard being an inspector, seeing all of the crazy work people do. It must be interesting and sad at the same time. Well, I've changed the deal on my F3 hookup. Called the micore people and they weren't solid about the combustibility. One guy said it is non -combustible and one guy said he couldn't say that! WHAT! Called the double wall pipe guy and he said "take that micore wall down now" I did. Tore it right off, all my sanding and painting and so on, gone. The pipe manufacturer said that the pipe can not go behind an enclosure and I should call my chimney guy. Called the chimney guy and he, he didn't do the work-his guys did, said why did they put it behind what they knew would be a wall? He was very forthright and good about the situation-I'm sure he didn't want to come back at all but he is coming back tomorrow to put in a new t connector (they had to cut the old one down to fit in the long double wall) and connect it to another shorter piece of double wall pipe that will be on the side of the wall as the stove. I will then finish the wall with Wonder board. Assuming the wonderboard would be safe? $#*& I thought I was almost done. By the way, this passed inspection in my city. I know people kept thinking....this crazy woman, why won't she quit asking questions? But, they did it wrong! I just keep thinking..."better safe than sorry". One day, if I ever get this finished I'll post a picture. Thanks for your support along the way.