Non-Insulated liner, and burning unseasoned wood... This is a no-no

[NoobTube]

So this is not my chimney... Repeat, not mine... I have a liner with vermiculite and a block off plate. Although I occasionally burn somewhat questionable wood (Sorry wood Gods!)

This is a buddy of mine, he happens to be a volunteer fireman as well, so you would think he would know better. Check out his before and after photos of one season of burning with a non-insulated exposed brick chimney on a ranch with unseasoned wood...


Yeah... Hard to tell how far that creosote extends down, but man, that seems pretty bad.

 

[BigFir]

At least it came clean! He should consider a mid-season clean if he can't improve on the build up.......

 

[double-d]

Looks like this is a 2 ply "Smooth Wall" liner, and it is installed upside down. You can see where the liner is slightly puckered at the top and that would allow the creosote, to possibly drip down to the outside of the liner, and cause additional problems.

 

[NoobTube]

I did not notice. Given that he installed it himself I'm not surprised. Could you be sure? Anyone else confirm that? I'd like to tell him so he knows. This is shot from the top down.

 

[LondonNeil]

Yes i noticed too, if the photo is looking down from the top then that liner is upside down.

 

[double-d]

PLEASE NOTE : When installing Smooth Wall Liner, Install With Arrow Pointing UP.
This is what is said in the instructions and there are Red Arrows painted on the outside of the liner. If the arrows were pointing up you would not have this gap where the creosote could drip into the liner.

 

[NoobTube]

I'm going to ask him to clarify. I imagine he should probably flip it and re-install it no?

 

[double-d]

Some of the puckering, at the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions appear to be from trying to install a couple of screws. Normally I would think the removal and re-installation, would be a real pain, but with the amount of creosote he has, it might not be a bad idea...or spend the bucks and go with a Hybrid style liner that has a smooth interior and you can install it either way and not have those problems.

 

[NoobTube]

I'll ask him about the re-installation. I doubt he would replace it for a new liner. I likely wouldn't do that either.

UPDATE. He said he is going to call the company that installed it. I wonder how likely it will be they will come out and fix their mistake.

 

[bholler]

or spend the bucks and go with a Hybrid style liner that has a smooth interior and you can install it either way and not have those problems.

No hybrid is directional also as is heavy wall regular light wall is the only type that is not.

 

[bholler]

I'll ask him about the re-installation. I doubt he would replace it for a new liner. I likely wouldn't do that either.

UPDATE. He said he is going to call the company that installed it. I wonder how likely it will be they will come out and fix their mistake.

Well they need to it wont last long like that. And while they have it out have them insulate it

 

[double-d]

No hybrid is directional also as is heavy wall regular light wall is the only type that is not.

I wasn't sure about the hybrid and heavy flex for sure if they also had arrows, but the smooth wall light weight is the one that I've seen with the red arrows pointing upward indicating the air flow direction. Definitely not a very heavy liner. thanks for the update.

 

[bholler]

Definitely not a very heavy liner. thanks for the update.

Yes I absolutely hate the stuff it is junk

 

[NoobTube]

Thanks Ya'll. Appreciate the feedback. I'll let him know and especially the detrimental affect of it being installed that way would be its limited lifespan.

 

[brenndatomu]

Oh great, so now not only did I waste my money buying a "premium" "HD" 2 ply liner from CLD, now you are saying it could be installed upside down?! Stink!
There was no arrow on it, nothing in the directions about it, and they never mentioned it when on the phone with them (for quite a while I might add)

 

[bholler]

Oh great, so now not only did I waste my money buying a "premium" "HD" 2 ply liner from CLD, now you are saying it could be installed upside down?! Stink!
There was no arrow on it, nothing in the directions about it, and they never mentioned it when on the phone with them (for quite a while I might add)

Is the loose side of the inner layer pointing up or down?

 

[bholler]

And while I really don't like that type of liner and will never install one for a customer they can hold up ok as long as you are careful when installing and cleaning it.

 

[Allagash350]

Looks like this is a 2 ply "Smooth Wall" liner, and it is installed upside down. You can see where the liner is slightly puckered at the top and that would allow the creosote, to possibly drip down to the outside of the liner, and cause additional problems.

Could you embellish on this a little bit? I just installed a 2 ply or double walled smooth liner. There was no mention of a top or bottom in the instructions and no arrows on it. I haven't finished hooking it up yet but now I'm nervous I did it wrong. Thank you

 

[brenndatomu]

Is the loose side of the inner layer pointing up or down?

I'll have to look the next time I'm up there.

And while I really don't like that type of liner and will never install one for a customer they can hold up ok as long as you are careful when installing and cleaning it.

Yeah, I'm sure it would be fine except it had some raised strips from where it was coiled too tightly for shipping. CLD said "oh, it's fine like that"

 

[bholler]

Yeah, I'm sure it would be fine except it had some raised strips from where it was coiled too tightly for shipping. CLD said "oh, it's fine like that"

Yeah that is one of the reasons I dont like it

 

[bholler]

Could you embellish on this a little bit? I just installed a 2 ply or double walled smooth liner. There was no mention of a top or bottom in the instructions and no arrows on it. I haven't finished hooking it up yet but now I'm nervous I did it wrong. Thank you

the overlapped sections need to point down towards the stove not up. If they point up any condensation will run down the liner and into those little flaps depositing creosote where you will have no way to clean it

 

[NoobTube]

Update from my friend. The installer came out this morning and took pictures, however they indicated that they believe it is installed correctly. Given what you have said and through general google searching, I'm inclined to believe that the installer is either incompetent, or they are lying so they don't have to re-install it.

It makes no sense that the ridges would be facing up. The tech told him verbatim "The way the tech described it is you want the walls to be smooth as the smoke leaves the chimney which is why it is the way it is so it doesn’t build as fast"

The exact liner they use... I'm not sure but they say its a Chim-Flo 304 or 316 Smoothwall. I'm assuming that changes nothing.

 

[bholler]

The tech told him verbatim "The way the tech described it is you want the walls to be smooth as the smoke leaves the chimney which is why it is the way it is so it doesn’t build as fast"

they are either incompetent or lazy and dont want to fix it

 

[RobbieB]

This made me go look at mine. I still have the left over piece. Looks like I installed it right, the exposed overlap edges are toward the stove.

Mine had no arrow either, just a piece of tape around one end and nothing on the other. The end that was taped had a much nicer cut so I removed the tape and attached the appliance connector to that end. The other end was just ripped rough, not square and SS shards flayed out. I figured that end was the end you were supposed to cut after stuffing it down the flue.

Looks like I was right -

 

[NoobTube]

I guess if the guys come back and say its installed right, should my friend get a second opinion? I mean I guess I could always reference him to my guys who did mine they would likely say its installed incorrectly.