Noob - Runaway Fire? Apologize for the long post ahead of time - freaked out!

[littlalex]

Howdy fellow wood burners. Just had an experience that totally freaked me out that I need some feedback on.

Bought a house up here in the "North Country" of New Jersey (Hewitt) in February. House came with a pre 1988 VC Vigilant, which to my amateur probings seems to be in pretty good shape. It clearly was not used as primary heat (There's oil fired hot air furnace here also.)

I've been planning to use wood as my primary heat source and I've been studying and using the stove a little bit (to warm to crank it up) with no problems. seals seem good. The fires I've been doing have been uneventful, including a couple of overnighters (about five hours).

Last night we dropped below freezing for the first time. I had been burning it with small two split fires all day with nothing unusual.

Time for me to go to sleep so I loaded the baby almost full, let it rip for about 10 min. with the damper open and then closed it and headed for bedroom on same floor.

Short while later I /smelled/felt/not sure what/ that something was up with the stove. Temp in the main room with the stove was 80+ degrees and as I approached the stove the floor (not the tiles the stove is on) three feet from the stove was to hot to stand on in my bare feet.

More frighteningly the thermometer on the chimney pipe was just short of being pegged at it's highest reading of 900 (excuse me)
friggin' degrees!

I quickly closed the secondary air cover. The damper handle was immovable (heat expansion?). I had a pot of water I tossed on the fire and after a few minutes I started to spray the fire down with a spray bottle of water every few minutes.

The chimney temp fell, thankfully. pretty quickly to about 600 degrees within about ten minutes and as I sit typing about 45 min after the incident the chimney temp reads between 350 and 400 degrees.

First, am I right in assuming this is what is called a runaway fire? And does anyone have any ideas what the heck happened?
i did notice during the day that the goofy and crude looking "thermostat" was stuck pretty far open and trying to adjust it lower (more closed) did not do anything. In my searching the forum about runaway fire there were a couple of posts about a different VC model that had a runaway fire that in the posts was attributed to this really crude looking mechanism.

Rest assured I won't be doing any overnight burns anytime soon. I won't be going to sleep until this puppy burns out!

TIA,
Littlalex

 

[fraxinus]

It's hard to say exactly what happened, but I would suspect you ignited creosote within the stove pipe and chimney. The molten creosote may have then run down into the stove. (If you're certain pipe and chimney were clean, you can ignore the foregoing. Creosote can, however, build up surprisingly fast if a stove is run with too little air - often the case in warm weather.) I know many people do it, but I've never been comfortable with stuffing the stove full before leaving it unattended. Better, I think, to ensure there is a good bed of coals and then shut down air controls - fire can be quickly restarted in the morning. Be sure to check your stove for warpage and cracks - the steam from the water may have done some damage.

 

[lma58]

"i did notice during the day that the goofy and crude looking “thermostat” was stuck pretty far open and trying to adjust it lower (more closed) did not do anything."

There lies your problem... if that damper is stuck in the open position, the fire will surely "runaway"

 

[elkimmeg]

The stove is made to burn with the damper closed which should have been closed 10 minutes after the re load the secondary air supply is automatically controlled so no one should be fooling around with it.. Third you are luck to be posting after tossing water in a hot stove
thermal shock could have busted it apart. Repeat, Never use water or liquids to put out a fire in a wood stove
If anything a bucket of sand to smother the fire.

Suggestion download the owner's manual and read how to opperate a fire How good is the ash door gasket, the griddle top gasket, the front door gasket,

and the damper gasket? are the refractory seams in good condition?. Really one has to know what they are doing and not make assumptions without the knowledge of knowing if there assumption of conditioning is correct

 

[stoveguy2esw]

frax is probably right, was the flue inspected before being put into use , in a house that is new to you the flue should be inspected prior to use as there is no telling if it was kept clean by the previous owner. i'd have a sweep come out and inspect it to ensure that the flue isin usable shape especially after your incident

 

[littlalex]

Gents - Thanks for your quick response. I was pretty careful applying the water to only the intensely burning wood, and well the spray bottle I could control completely in terms of water placement on the logs...that said I realize I might have damaged the old
girl.

We're having a communication problem re: the term "damper." The damper was closed (damper being the large hand lever on the left side of the stove) during the burn. The Vigilant I have has three external sources of air control, the damper as described above, a "secondary air control" which is just a plug of metal that swivels on a bolt which can cover or expose a round quarter size opening on the bottom left side of the stove which the manual says should always be left open when burning in the "horizontal burn mode" (the damper closed) and the goofy "thermostat" which as I said was not amiable to being adjusted. I pulled the terms I'm using directly out of the stove manual.

Regardless of whatever caused this hairy experience, does anyone have the name of someone up here in the northern passaic/sussex county area of jersey who would do inspections, installations, etc. I'd like to dump this stove and pick up a modestly priced new burner but I'm living on SS and don't have the cash.

I believe my first mistake was not having someone come in who has a clue to do a good inspection, a real Duh!

On a hopeful note some of these VC "classics seem to be selling for more than scrap metal money 8^).

Peace,
Littlalex

 

[Corey]

Another issue is when you say you loaded the stove almost full. I would have to ask - full of what? If you're talking full of tiny splits, twigs, and other assorted thin pieces of wood, that is jut asking for a big, uncontrollable fire. For a good overnight burn, one or two thick pieces of wood will work much better.

 

[littlalex]

Cozy - Actually the wood, (from my junior woodchuck knowledge of such things) is about as good as hardwood gets, it's been racked here tarped for 3-4 years, large and medium splits, 16-20 inches mixed HW. Actually I was thinking that maybe the wood is TOO dry. if that's possible. When I stick a large split on the embers it pretty much whooshes into flames in about 30-45 seconds.

Littlalex

 

[struggle]

I had a Vigilant and here is what I am wondering. Where did you get the temp readings from and what were they to exactly where the temp guage was?

If you leave the air control rod to the air intake door (located to on the top left side of the stove) open after the reload it should have closed on its own as it has a spring and thermally would shut that air down if the stove got to hot.

My concern is thought that on my stove (viglilant) I was unknowing about the fact that it was in need of rebuild and did experience kind of what you did.

Upon closer inspection I found that the refactory cement stuff that seals all the seams in several places on the stove had deteriated over the years and was allowing air in the firebox that I could not control and there for I was at over fire conditions.

Take a flash light with the stove off and leave the room dark and shine the brite flash light all around the insides of the stove and see if you can see any light around the edges of the stove and where the top meets the sides. If any light shows the stove needs to be dissassembled and rebuilt.


ELK is an expert when it comes to rebuilding these thing.

I ended up selling my Vigilant and bought a new stove due to other factors after I rebuilt my stove it was so effecint that iit exposed a chimney problem.

You can not go wrong getting a new stove but then you would most likely have to reline your chimney.

 

[DriftWood]

Logic test here:

Fill unknown stove with wood go to bed. yes or NO

Fill unknown stove with wood And let it go full blast then go to bed. yes or NO

Anything that can go wrong it will. YES or No

Anything that can go right will, if the proper planning and precautions are made. YES or no

WE can learn from our mistakes. YES or no

I will never have a chimney fire, yes or NO

I need to clean and inspect a unknown chimney. YES or no

The best plan is to not let a problem happen. YES or no

 

[tradergordo]

You did sweep your chimney before using this stove, right? I'd start there.

Then you need to check all of the gaskets - do this by closing a dollar bill in them, ALL around the entire gasket, if you can easily pull the bill out, you need to replace the gaskets.

3-4 year old wood could be excessivly dry - you might have to mix that stuff with some wetter wood.

What kind of hearth pad do you have? Too hot to stand on the foor or the hearth? Either way, doesn't sound good (my stove barely puts any heat onto the floor).

What is the normal operating temperature range for your stove? This would be good to find out. And get a better probe thermometer, 900 at the top end isn't high enough for many wood stoves. My stove exceeds 900 (internal flue temp) in every burn cycle, its a normal temp in the range although it doesn't stay continuously that high. But it sounds like you were WELL above 900 your guage just didn't go any higher.

 

[elkimmeg]

Sounds like you have a combo coal / wood Viligiant stove Are you sure you have the bottom coal inlet air closed for wood burning. If not closed and feeding air from the bottom ,it is very easy to cause a runaway fire. Do the light test in the dark clean out all ash vac it out using a very strong flash light beam shine it on all the seams including the griddle top.

Do you see any light leaks? also check the flue collar area with the light.
Take the connector pipe off and inspect it for condition and creosote.

finally close the front doors and place the light in from the top and shine it at the front doors for light leaks.

that done when was the last time any gaskets were replaced? the top griddle gasket last about 4 years and gasket sealing movable parts again about 4 years.
How tight do the doors latch ? did you know there are adjustments to the door latches possibly the ash pan gasket door as well.

Time to check all gaskets with dollar bill test it you can easily pull the bill out the gasket needs to be replaced. how tight does the damper close?

the combo coal/ wood Vigilant was a better coal burner than wood never really meant for overnights and 24/7 wood burning

You have to do some research and take some pictures and post them so others can examine and advise its condition


Welcome to the hearth

 

[BrotherBart]

The first thing you need to do is get used to operating your stove with successively larger loads of wood in it. While you are up and awake and can observe how different size loads burn and how to control the stove at various stages of the burn.

Odds are that it wasn't a problem with the stove but that you just packed a big load of seasoned wood on top of a nice bed of hot coals. The first thing that is going to happen is the wood is going to start out-gassing pretty fast. Half of the heat in that wood is the gases released in the first part of a burn. I think the clue that this is the case here is the extremely high flue temps. Both the stove and the pipe were overwhelmed by the high volume of gases released and igniting at once.

Start small and build up your experience with the stove with different firebox loads. You will get the hang of it and then and only then can you confidently know when you have the stove settled in for the night for a long burn.

 

[woodconvert]

"Repeat, Never us watter or liquids to put out a fire in a wood stove
If anything a bucket of sand to smother the fire."

Another option are some fire extinguisher sticks. They are sold at you local hearth shop...they resemble the shape of a road flare. From what I recall from the one time I used one, you strike it like a road flare and throw it in the fire. It will put out the fire almost immediately as well as any fire in the chimney.

ALWAYS sweep/inspect the chimney prior to firing.
ALWAYS check your gaskets. If you had bad gaskets especially around the ash door your other controls on the stove are rendered moot.

 

[BrotherBart]

Another option are some fire extinguisher sticks. They are sold at you local hearth shop...they resemble the shape of a road flare. From what I recall from the one time I used one, you strike it like a road flare and throw it in the fire. It will put out the fire almost immediately as well as any fire in the chimney.

Those were the Chimfex sticks. The factory burned down (no kidding) a few years ago and they decided not to rebuild so they aren't made anymore.

 

[woodconvert]

Another option are some fire extinguisher sticks. They are sold at you local hearth shop...they resemble the shape of a road flare. From what I recall from the one time I used one, you strike it like a road flare and throw it in the fire. It will put out the fire almost immediately as well as any fire in the chimney.

Those were the Chimfex sticks. The factory burned down (no kidding) a few years ago and they decided not to rebuild so they aren't made anymore.

That is unbelievable. See how good they work!. (seriously, the one time I had to use it they worked very well...honest).

 

[begreen]

Alex, glad you made it ok. You are getting good advice. Have the flue checked out to be sure it's clean. Then really thoroughly clean out and vacuum the stove so that it can be looked at.

Then inspect the stove very carefully. This stove can put out a lot of heat when it's working well. Follow Struggle and Elk's suggestion for inspecting. The light test is a good one. Do it with the room lights dimmed or off. If there are air leaks at the seams or gaskets, the stove will be hard to control and will overheat with a large fire.

Inspect the thermostatic damper. If in good order it should work quite well. Make sure the little air damper swings freely and that when not calling for heat, it closes completely.

Last, if all the above are in order, it is possible that the wood is too dry. If this is the case, get some less seasoned wood (but not green) and mix it with the driest wood for a more controllable burn.

 

[tutu_sue]

Howdy neighbor! I'm in Bloomingdale. Had an almost runaway once and the stove was full of 3 year old wood that was very dry. After that mixed with newer stuff and it was okay. Bet you almost had a heart attack...

 

[buxbud2]

OK here is the dilly. Insure the chimney is clean. Check the Vigilant and make sure the cement seams are intact. Get that thermostat replaced, if its stuck open, that is likely the main issue you are having. Burn some greener wood with that 4yr old stuff. The stuff you have is probably too dry. And finally, yes, the "ChimFex" factory indeed burnt to the ground and I've no idea where you will find an alternative, if there even is one. If you can find one of these "ChimFex" extinguishers, terrific. If you cannot, GET A FIRE EXTINGUISHER!! I don't want to be critical, but an extinguisher is an absolute MUST regardless if you are burning wood or not.

GOOD LUCK.....TAKE CARE!!

 

[Gooserider]

Agreed, if you can find a Chimfex stick they are great, but as an alternative, a couple of things I've heard are effective and MUCH safer than either water, or using a regular fire extinguisher are to either get a couple boxes of baking powder, or better yet, go to a fire extinguisher place, or possibly your local fire dept. and get a couple pounds of ABC fire extinguisher powder - put it in zippys and keep the zippy's in a container to protect them near the stove.

You use these "bomb thrower" style - If you have a fire, open the door just long enough to toss the entire box of baking powder or the zippy of fire extinguisher powder in, then close the door and shut any air inlets that you can. The fire will take care of "opening" the package, and you also want to shut off as much air to the fire as possible.

The problem with using a standard dry-chem extinguisher is that it is shooting the chemicals into a closed box under pressure, and you run a risk of it blowing burning material back out at you.

In the situation of the original poster, I agree sounds like time for a very thorough examination of the chimney and the stove itself for damage, and probably time to do a rebuild on the stove, especially fixing the thermostat.

Gooserider

 

[littlalex]

Just wanted to thank all who responded to my original post. Not ignoring anyone, but kind of a lot to digest in all the responses,
no to mention the "Red Raced" factor.

Still here, reading and learning...

Peace,
Littlalex

 

[jodie]

There is a heat activated thermostat on the Vigilant (mine is on the back left). Depending where you set this it will control the temperature by a heat activated metal coil opening and closing another vent on the back bottom left. I just had a runaway fire that cracked the bottom of my Vigilant (no longer available) because I started the fire, thought I lowered the thermostat and walked away - the thermostat was stuck open and in 15 minuted the stove popped. If you need links to manuals, parts or rebuilding (which in recommended) info let me know. I have learned alot too late! Aslo putting water on cast iron can crack it, very dangerous!

 

[littlalex]

Jody - Sorry your Vigilant got "popped." I'm becoming quite fond of this stove. I now believe that the stuck thermostat is most of the reason for my adventure and I have a fire extinguisher and a very large box of baking soda within arms reach. I'm also no longer doing overnight burns. I let whatever's left in the firebox burn itself out when I retire. Whenever I think of the water i get a bit of a shudder 8^)

Are you going to get the Vigilant fixed?

I would appreciate any info you could pass my way. thanks for your response.

Peace,
Littlalex

 

[WarmGuy]

Alex,

When you get it inspected, let us know what was found.

 

[WarmGuy]

About the baking soda bombs...

I would have thought that baking soda worked by smothering the fire. If the box is just sitting in the firebox, will it really put out the fire?

I'm tempted to try this out with a moderate fire, just for practice. Would there be any ill effects, you think?

BS can accomplish a lot, I've found.