not quite the heat output I expected

[douwe]

I just installed a BIS Panorama (wood burning zero clearance stove) with gravity kit on an outside wall inside a chase. When we fired it up today with 6 logs of pine we didn't feel like we got the heat out that we were expecting. When we opened the door the flames really shot up, as if the air intake was too restricted, even with the air intake fully open.

We're only trying to heat up a space of about 1000 sq ft, but it doesn't seem capable of that at the current rate. We didn't quite get that "wow, now that is putting out a lot of heat" feeling when we had it fired up. Are our expectations out of line and/or how can we evaluate that everything is working properly?

Thanks for your input.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I just installed a BIS Panorama (wood burning zero clearance stove) with gravity kit on an outside wall inside a chase. When we fired it up today with 6 logs of pine we didn't feel like we got the heat out that we were expecting. When we opened the door the flames really shot up, as if the air intake was too restricted, even with the air intake fully open.

We're only trying to heat up a space of about 1000 sq ft, but it doesn't seem capable of that at the current rate. We didn't quite get that "wow, now that is putting out a lot of heat" feeling when we had it fired up. Are our expectations out of line and/or how can we evaluate that everything is working properly?

Thanks for your input.

With the ability to heat 2000 square feet and a firebox at 3.6 cubic feet my first guess is your wood is wet. You said you threw in 'logs'. Were they split logs or full rounds?

 

[par0thead151]

I just installed a BIS Panorama (wood burning zero clearance stove) with gravity kit on an outside wall inside a chase. When we fired it up today with 6 logs of pine we didn't feel like we got the heat out that we were expecting. When we opened the door the flames really shot up, as if the air intake was too restricted, even with the air intake fully open.

We're only trying to heat up a space of about 1000 sq ft, but it doesn't seem capable of that at the current rate. We didn't quite get that "wow, now that is putting out a lot of heat" feeling when we had it fired up. Are our expectations out of line and/or how can we evaluate that everything is working properly?

Thanks for your input.

With the ability to heat 2000 square feet and a firebox at 3.6 cubic feet my first guess is your wood is wet. You said you threw in 'logs'. Were they split logs or full rounds?

agreed. your wood is suspect.
that or you have a restricted air flow as you hypothesized.
i have a enviro venice 1700 in a ZC fireplace. it is rated to 1500 SQ ft, and i heat my 3000 SQ foot home with it, in all but the coldest wisconsin weather(above 15 Fahrenheit outside and i can keep the house at 65 or warmer)

 

[LLigetfa]

+1 on wet wood.

 

[staplebox]

Something ain't right there. That size stove should cook you out of 1000 sq ft. I'd check your wood as mentioned above. Also you mentioned a chase. What exactly is in that chase, from the stove to the top? How tall a chimney. How tight is your house? I'm not sure what a gravity kit is but does it have a blower? It the space insulated - below grade or above?

 

[douwe]

Thanks guys for the quick feedback.

The wood is split and seems dry. We're new to heating with wood so are not quite sure what all to expect. Should the flames get much bigger when we open the door? or is that an indication of a restricted air intake. The air intake runs from the side of the fireplace directly outside. Are there specific tests that I can do things I can track to isolate the problem?

Another related question, should I be getting most of the heat out through radiation from the window or through the gravity vents.

 

[douwe]

Wow, during my reply two more responses. I need to type faster...

The chase. Insert is in the chase with a chimney going straight up 23 ft through two firestops. The chase is insulated to try to keep the chimney warmer but the chase is still a little drafty. The house is moderately tight, built in 1987.

The gravity kit consists of two outlets from the top of the stove that go to two vents about 4 feet above the stove through the wall into the room. It takes the air from the intake on the bottom, heats it up and sends it out the vents. We don't have a blower.

Our house is decently insulated above grade.

 

[weatherguy]

You dont have a blower?

 

[Beetle-Kill]

If douwe is using the local beetle-kill pine, it should be more than dry enough to blaze. Sounds like an air control issue to me. (Be careful, when your air is figured out, it will want to rocket off- 300-900 in five min. easy)

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm not sure what a gravity kit is but does it have a blower?

A gravity kit is a B vent that works only by convection, no fan.

 

[stockdoct]

I'm guessing here ...

But I've never heard of a "gravity" system for distributing heat. And BIS does offer another system of "Forced Air", which is how most inserts distribute heat. Is the "gravity" system simply without the blower?

Any flush insert needs a blower to distribute the heat. I suspect this is your problem. You don't have a blower or "forced air", and are simply relying on radiated heat through the glass and a little heat through the "gravity" system" which is not what you expected.


You need an electrically powered blower.

But I'm just guessing

 

[LLigetfa]

My ground floor is 1200 sq ft open concept and my 3.1 cu ft stove can keep it warm in -40 weather with a power outage without any gravity vent. A gravity vent takes advantage of convection to move air. It is not as efficient as a blower but a whole lot quieter. In milder weather I leave my blower off simply because it would get too hot with it on.

 

[douwe]

The only blower that they offer for this fireplace if the forced air kit which is not EPA approved. I figured (maybe mistakenly) that the gravity kit would induce enough convection to get the heat into the room. The stove certainly doesn't need a blower for safe operation. If it is a combustion air problem, is there a way of identifying that specifically?

 

[Corriewf]

The only blower that they offer for this fireplace if the forced air kit which is not EPA approved. I figured (maybe mistakenly) that the gravity kit would induce enough convection to get the heat into the room. The stove certainly doesn't need a blower for safe operation. If it is a combustion air problem, is there a way of identifying that specifically?

What is the temp of the stove getting to? Are you getting decent secondary combustion?

 

[G-rott]

douwe,

Once you get the fire really going with a good bed of coals, and everything burning, turn the air all the way DOWN. this will keep the heat in the firebox longer and cause temps to rise. The heated air doesn't shoot straight up the flue. The flames will be smaller and lazy, secondaries should be burning too if your stove has them.

Good luck,
Garett

 

[TROY COOK]

sounds like wet wood..1000 square feet you should feel like a finlander in the sowna!'' sauna'' if your not a yooper!

 

[douwe]

Ok, sounds like a moisture meter is in order to rule out wet wood. We did have the catalyst lit, but I don't think it has secondary combustors. So as far as flames go the goal should be small "lazy" flames and not a nice solid strong fire? And Corriewf, where should I be measuring the temperature for your question? I can measure it next time.

To be more descriptive of our house. We have 2000 sq ft with 1000 downstairs and 1000 upstairs with an open layout and some high ceilings. I mentioned 1000 sq ft because the stove is reasonably far away from the high ceilings and we weren't being blasted out of the family room where the stove is.

 

[TROY COOK]

Is this the insert you have ? Did you buy it from a speciality fire place store or a big box store? If you did buy from a big box store, the general problem is good price bad information.
What about your elevation were you live? could be an issue?

 

[douwe]

Yes that is the stove I have. I bought it from a local fireplace store. I installed it with the insulated chimney that is recommended at my elevation of 5300ft.

 

[staplebox]

If you are getting a big flame when you open the door your air intake sounds suspect. Or your control of it.

Not to confuse you on flame size but...when you are getting the stove going from scratch you need to run it hot/high for a bit to get the stove up to temp (400+) and establish a good bed of hot coals. Then you can add some larger splits and once they get going you can start to dial the stove down /reduce air ( as mention above - to keep the heat in and to get the secondaries working). If you decrease the air too fast you'll end up with a smoldering fire with low flame that puts a lot of smoke out of your chimney. It could look similar to a stove running with the air down and nice lazy flames but it will be much colder. Check by buying a cheap stove thermometer and sticking it on the stove somewhere - it's not exact but it'll help you. Also 400-600 feels a lot hotter than 100-300 degrees.

If you have a hot stove that has burned through the secondaries and you open the door nothing much will happen. If you have an air starved smoldering fire and you open the door it is likely to flame up. If you have your air wide open and it is smoldering (and flames up when you open or crack the door) then your air intake is restricted somehow. You could also have the air wide open and a smoldering fire if the wood is too wet to burn. Cracking the door may help get it going. If you have different wood try mixing it up.

Good luck. You'll know when you get it.

 

[douwe]

Thanks staplebox, that sounds like a good description. I have a IR thermometer that I'll use to check the stove temp and I'll apply some of your tips next time we fire it up. That probably won't be for another week and a half though because we're headed out of town for the holidays.

 

[woodjack]

Before you waste a lot of time and energy, get some wood that you're sure is seasoned (dry; <20% moisture). You can't properly diagnose your problem until you're sure you are burning good fuel. I'm not sure, but I think the $5 bundles they sell in the supermarket are dry.

 

[douwe]

Well, I got a moisture meter and some wood from the supermarket. Some of the wood I was burning was a little wet (~20%) but most of it seems pretty dry (<15%). I measured on the split logs without splitting them again.

I think I had a combination of issues consisting of a few wet pieces of wood and never getting the stove up to temperature. With these two issues resolved we're getting a nice fire. Its amazing how well the fire can be controlled by adjusting the air input from big flames on the wood to a few blue flames at the secondary combustors or hoovering blue flames.

Now we have to figure out how to optimally operate the unit for our purposes.

Thanks for everyones input.

 

[lexybird]

99% of all problems that new burner guys have is wet wood
doesnt matter what stove or insert it is ...it can be the difference between opening up all the windows to release the excess heat ... or huddled up over the stove shaking while rubbing your hands over it for warmth

 

[LLigetfa]

I measured on the split logs without splitting them again...

You're wasting your time if you don't resplit them and measure it on a freshly exposed face.