Not saving all that much money!

[forby]

This was my first year burning my big Jotul stove in my 2500 SQ FT Bi-level. I have gas forced air with a 20 year old high efficiency carrier furnace. My house is also 20 years old. Living in the NE of PA I expected a hugh savings burning full time wood. I busted my tail all summer and fall collecting wood and I bought 8 cords of pole wood (all red oak) that I cut for next year. The 8 cords cost me $600 and a ton of work. I bought 4 cords of "seasoned" wood in July for use this year for $470.

I have gone thru 4 cords already and I feel that I will go thru maybe another 1.5 or 2 cords of wood I collected from various sources. Now, my house is a heck of a lot warmer than last year (73 compared to 67). Last year I spent $1350 for NG during the heating season. My gas bills so far are averaging $95 just for hot water and cooking. That means that for the 6 month heating season I will only save about $800 for the gas heat!! If I figure that the wood costs me roughly $400 for 6 cords of pole wood then my net savings would only be $400

Is this common? Would I use far less wood if I held the temp to 67? Do I need to work harder for free wood?

I know I was burning properly because I checked my chimney Jan 19th after burning since October and I had a mere dusting of creosote on the walls.

Thoughts?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You have burnt through 4 full 4x4x8 cords already?

I think you must be letting all of your heat up your flue.

Regardless, if your wife is warmer and more comfortable it is worth it.

Matt

 

[burntime]

I think it is a learning curve on how to run the stove. Once its hot you have to choke it down...the stove temp will actually rise. That is an aweful lot of wood to burn! I think I broke 2 cords to 2.5 now in Wisconsin.

 

[joustinghill]

I'm far from an expert, but it sounds like you're going through wood awfully fast. I'm in southern NH, with a house about the same size as yours and I haven't quite gone through 2.5 cords yet. I'd suggest reading up around here and see if there's something you can change in your burning process.

 

[wayneg]

If I had to buy my wood at market prices (instead of scrounging and getting it for "free") my feeling is that it would cost around what natural gas costs. Since I view my physical effort in wood processing as my "gym membership", I'm saving money two ways!

 

[Sealcove]

I agree, if the house is well insulated and tight I would not expect that much wood consumption. I am using a Jotul Firelight to heat 2200+ sq ft in Maine and I have burned around 2 cords so far this season. Granted there are likely differences in our layouts and insulation.

 

[forby]

Thanks so far...

I'm sitting in my kitchen now and my temp is showing 71. Not too hot but warmer than with gas heat.

The seasoned splits I got are at least 6 inches across and won't burn most of the time in my F600. I split them once or twice into 2.5-3 inch pieces. I only get up to 400 or 425 most of the time except when it's really cold out. Then, I can get up to 500 or 525 max (I assume because of the added draft).

Am I using wood that is too small? I restarted at 5:30 am today with 7 or 8 of these small splits and have gradually added 7 or 8 more and it's only 7:45!!

If I try to add a big piece, it may or may not burn efficiently. Sometimes I come back after a big piece and find a small smoldering burn and when I lift the split off the coals, the underlying coals are cool and black! I have the draft on full open 98% of the time and I need to crack the side door for 10 minutes most of the time when I reload. When I find the smoldering big splits, I have to prop them up, add small splits and leaving the door open for a bit.

All that said, my fire runs full ablaze most of the time (i guess this is why the chimney seams clean). I think I may need a fresh air kit to get more air to the fire. A friend of mine says he throws 6-8 logs into his 20 year old stove all the time

Me, I'm essentially burning starter wood most of the time.

Also, when I do draft down the fire the temp drops after 30 minutes. It never rises!! I have a 6 inch SS chimney installed by the regional 30 year veteran Jotul dealer.

 

[Sealcove]

I wonder if you have draft issues? 6" across is a small to medium split for my F600. Once I have a hot coal bed I can barely get 4-5 splits in loaded east-west, but those are 20" long and anywhere from 5-10" wide. If the stove is cool I may need to leave the door cracked for 10-15 minutes to give new wood a kick start, but within 30 minutes total my stove top is in the 500-600 degree range and ready to be shut down for 6-8 hours.

I have a straight excel chimney run for about 22' (8' interior double wall & 16 exterior grade).

 

[Sealcove]

Just another performance note from last night since we are burning the same stove:

Last night I loaded the stove at around 10pm and got it up to 600+- for 20 minutes or so. After that I fully damped it down and left it for the night. At 6:05am this morning the stove was at 250, and there was a perfect bed of coals to start with (actually I had to do some raking to get the small coals to drop through the grate to make some room). I loaded the stove with 4 big splits and let the temp get to 550. The stove has been shutdown completely for 1hr 45min, and the temp is still at 450.

 

[drewboy]

Part of the payoff for me is just sitting in front of the stove - it seems like it is well worth the labor. Although if I was buying my wood I suppose I'd take a closer look at the big picture and how it affects my oil bill etc...

 

[Hanko]

That seams like an afull lot of wood. Ive gone through 4 cord, but I have two stoves running full time and the englander going about half of that. I never felt you were saving that much buying wood, but look at it this way, your getting alot of exercise, and having fun doing it.

 

[termv]

Are you sure your wood is seasoned? It sounds like it is not. Go to the grocery store and pickup some kiln dried stuff, enough for a couple loads. Load your stove up and compare the output to your "seasoned" wood. When your wood isnt dry, you have to burn with the damper further open and the wood that is burning has to dry the wood that isn't. This wastes BTUs that should be heating your home. Also make sure you are damping down(if you can without fire smouldering) when your fire gets going, so that the heat stays in the firebox and not going up the chimney.

 

[edthedawg]

Kinda surprised nobody mentioned this, but... what would your gas bills be like if you heated to current temps (73 you said?) with just gas? Probably a heckuva lot higher than your $1350/season @ 67. I certain't couldn't predict w/ any accuracy, but if you had to run 20% more gas (a vastly conservative estimate, I'm guessing) then your comparative expense is more like $1620, and your comparative savings just jumped considerably.

And not for nothin', but using less petroleum / NG / propane - all sounds like a good idea to me, even if the costs don't necessarily balance out all the time.

You are in your first year of burning a big stove pretty hard - so the wood consumption this season has to be considered your baseline. You can only improve in future years as you master your craft

 

[savageactor7]

forby there is a learning curve with wood, still you sound a lot like me cause I'll burn whatever it takes to heat up the place.

The big difference is you're paying for wood...if I had to pay for wood I'd be burning coal. It's hotter, less handling, bullet proof to the elements, a lot less shedding than wood so you could say it's cleaner.

But getting back to wood 4 cords for 470 is a very good deal still you have to ramp up your scrounging efforts for the real big savings. And what price can you put on your hot fire during a very cold day...the majority of your neighbors are still heating with gas/oil but wearing long underwear around the house.

Still I suppose you could install an inline flue damper and save yourself a few cords. Talk to one of your experienced wood burning neighbors that burn in a non EPA stove for the heads up on them.

 

[WOODBUTCHER]

Forby,
We have 4 Jotuls in the family ...couple F500'S, a F600 an f3cb. Sounds like your burning alot of wood due to your front draft control wide open all the time.
I've been reading lots of draft issues/damp wood issues here on this forum. Please tell us the height of your chimney. Is it external or internal ? Explain your setup (how it vents from the back of the stove and connects to your SS liner). I see you posted "I busted my tail all summer and fall collecting wood" You also posted. "I bought 4 cords of “seasoned” wood in July for use this year for $470" People here will tell you that wood has to be split and stacked at least a year...some species less....some species more.
Your problem maybe both (draft/damp wood or one or the other).Try the store bought wood or untreated lumber scraps. Also... you really need a good coal bed for big splits.
I cant stress the fact enough of maintaining a "good hot coal bed" slow and easy wins the race.

I run a F500 and burn 24/7 here in Northeast CT. I've burned about 1.75 cords since mid October.
My draft control in the front is usully closed 75% or more for good secondary burn rates. To get the wood good and charred after loading I'll leave the draft control wide open
to about 500-600. I can easily over fire the stove by leaving it wide open for any length of time.

Hope this helps

WoodButcher

 

[semipro]

Forby, I think Edthedawg is on to something. A 6 degree increase in set temp on your NG forced air thermostat would result in a lot more gas use than before. Your savings are a lot bigger than you think. I and some friends have actually monitored central heat use with different set temps and a relativley small increase in the set temp can make a huge difference in usage. I heat with a ground source heat pump when not burning and I hate to hear that thing running so I monitor it closely.

 

[tundrapolaris]

Hello everyone, i have just join this site as i have been burning wood for many years with a non high effeciancy wood insert, and am thinking next year im guna get a new one. Anyway i live in ontario canada, very cold winter. Up here i will cut some of my onw wood (scrounge around) but i do buy some. What i may suggest to save some money, is to find a saw mill which sells slab wood. I get all hard maple for $40 a cord. Real clean stuff. P.S. any suggestion on which insert manufacturer to buy? I was looking at Regency, Enviro, Pacific Energy and Napoleon.

 

[Jags]

I can easily over fire the stove by leaving it wide open for any length of time.

WoodButcher

Forby, you need to pay attention to the above statement. If your stove does NOT react in this same manor then you have a problem. Is the problem with the wood (that would be my guess), or with draft??? Dunno, but if you have good draft and properly seasoned wood, you should NOT be able to run that stove wide open all the time. Mine would go into nuclear melt down if I didn't put the clamps to it after start up.

Something to think about.

 

[Jay777]

If I try to add a big piece, it may or may not burn efficiently. Sometimes I come back after a big piece and find a small smoldering burn and when I lift the split off the coals, the underlying coals are cool and black! I have the draft on full open 98% of the time and I need to crack the side door for 10 minutes most of the time when I reload. When I find the smoldering big splits, I have to prop them up, add small splits and leaving the door open for a bit.

I didn't read the whole thread yet, so maybe someone else already asked this, but..

How do you know your "seasoned wood" is seasoned?

 

[forby]

Thanks for all the replies.....

My chimney is about 24 feet.

I suppose that my wood may not be perfectly dry, but I have recorded 15-20% on the ends. I didn't really pay attention to the inside readings.

What about my issue with higher temps during the really cold days?? Do I need to provide more intake air thru a fresh air intake?

I do occasionally get smoke roll out (just a little) if I open the side door too fast. I also get LOTS AND LOTS of sparking when I open the side door. This seams to me like an air starved fire getting air suddenly.

I have only dampened the stove down at night after a full load has been added. 525 wide open is the highest I ever recorded and that was on the -8 day last week.

 

[Jay777]

I suppose that my wood may not be perfectly dry, but I have recorded 15-20% on the ends. I didn't really pay attention to the inside readings.

I have two cords of "seasoned wood" that read 8% on the outside, and 30+% in the middle (when I split it into smaller pieces).

 

[Jags]

525 wide open is the highest I ever recorded and that was on the -8 day last week.

Ummm... I get higher than that when clamped down to 90% closed. Reading moisture from the end of a split means almost nothing. If you have a moisture meter, take one of your splits and split it in half and read the moisture from the newly exposed area. I am betting that we may have found the problem.

 

[jadm]

Like several others have mentioned I used to keep therm. at 64* to cut costs. Got tired of being cold and didn't want to pay the higher NG bills so I began burning wood several years ago.

Temp. in insert area is regularly in the mid 70's. I am no longer cold and only turn NG on for a short time in the a.m. to help take the chill off and give the back of the house a bit of heat. (Insert heat doesn't get back there due to halls and doorways.)

If I had the therm. that high my NG bill would be way higher than the cost of wood.

The art of wood burning takes some practice and was tough in the beginning for me. Took awhile to get everything running smoothly but I can't see going back. I love my insert and a good fire burning away in it. I love the firewood stacks in my yard. I love the way tending a fire forms my day.

I love that my 12 year old son gets to chop wood and feel good about something he does that helps make our lives easier - a real job where he can see the results of his hard work. (He does complain but boy does he love to swing that mini maul and see a log split. ;-) )

I confess, I am addicted to burning wood. Can't say I felt the same way about turning the NG on.


:coolsmile:

 

[firefighterjake]

Reiterating a few points here.

First, it sounds like your stove is not working the way it should . . . and it's most likely the "usual suspects" of either/and unseasoned wood and/or a draft problem.

If you're using the wood you cut and split in the Summer and Fall unless this wood was "standing dead" (and even then it depends on the species and just how dead the dead wood is) there is a pretty good chance the wood isn't seasoned enough to really burn well.

If you're using the "seasoned" wood you bought in July you should know that "seasoned" is a relative term to some folks . . . "seasoned" could mean the guy cut the wood down, cut it up and split it a year ago (good) or it could mean he cut the wood down in tree length six months ago and just last week, cut it up and split it (not so good).

Your situation is a bit different from me -- you have a larger house, live a bit further south than me, etc. but it does seem that you're burning quite a bit of wood.

The fact that your chimney is clean is a good sign . . . but it doesn't mean that the wood is not the "culprit" in your dilemma since other folks experience with your particular model of stove (and with my own albeit limited experience with my own Jotul stove) seems to indicate that you should be getting a lot hotter temps than 400-425 or even 500-525. A good drafting stove with good, dry wood should easily be climbing to 600 degrees in a short time without needing to leave the door open . . . on my stove leaving the door open and/or the primary air all the way open would lead to a really, really, really bad situation (i.e. the gates of Hell would open and a portal to Hell would be open in Unity, Maine).

Your size of the splits should not be a factor . . . heck, I'm burning much larger splits and rounds than 6 inches in my stove and once there is a bed of coals the wood catches on quickly without needing to crack the door or leave the primary air open (in fact while I do crack the door and use the primary air to start the fire once it is going strong and there is a good base of coals I find that I don't really need to mess around with the primary air for reloading . . . unless my wife has stuck a soggy, punky wood into the fire like she sometimes likes to do.) In fact, if you're putting a lot of smaller splits into the fire you should be ending up with hotter fires that will burn up more quickly, but put out a lot of heat due to more surface area . . . of course doing so in the dead of winter leads to some of this heat going up the stack.

Ideally you should be adding wood to the bed of coals without having to crack the side door . . . you might need to play with the air control some . . . but after letting the stove top temp roll up to 500 or so you should be able to close the air control all the way to nearly all the way shut and the result should be temps that stay at 500 or increase a bit and you should have a really pretty lightshow . . . what should not be happening is the fire dying down.

The fact that you're running your air control wide open says to me once again that this is either unseasoned wood or a draft issue.

 

[termv]

When you take your readings with the moisture meter on the ends and in the middle of just split piece, make sure it is not frozen. If I remember correctly most moisture meters cant operate correctly with frozen wood, it has to be above a certain temp.