OAK in Basement Install? Sorry for beating a dead horse..

[Irish916]

I had a local shop installer out to assess my basement for an install of a free standing Harman unit (maybe the 61 or 68, haven't decided yet) My basement is finished and below grade, so the topic of an OAK come up. The stove would be vertically vented up through the basement ceiling and then 90 out through the rim joist and up about a foot for termination. Since I have to run vertically I was told that I would have two vertical pipes visible if I added the OAK on the Harman, which aesthetically might be a total deal breaker. So not to beat a dead horse about the OAK, but can I get away with not having one? The installer says yes. It will only dry out the air in the basement, but pose no other issue with the function of the unit. I installed the 52i in my family room (upstairs) last fall and insisted on the OAK there for things I've read. Now I'm worried about doing this install without one. Doesn't Harman make a single vertical pipe that contains the OAK and vent for people that can't vent through the wall behind the stove!?

 

[Coal Ivy]

An outside air feed is never physically required, although it may be legally required. As long as enough make up air is getting into the room to feed the unit, you'll be fine. It's an air mass movement problem. If you can't abide a 2nd pipe, then you can provide for air to get in if it's too tight. A cracked window would work, but there's the whole "have to remember to crack it."
Me? I'd want a permanent solution. The most obvious permanent solution is to run a second pipe, and never have to do any more thinking about it than to make sure the pipe is unobstructed. Perhaps get creative with the termination - it doesn't have to be a 3" PVC with an ugly end cap.

Not sure about your local code enforcement, etc. Where I'm at, I can pretty much do whatever I want and nobody will ever say boo.

 

[Bioburner]

Newer NFPA guidelines like to have most of the heating appliances get a OAK. Where I am in MN we have a major problem with Radon and putting any vacuum in a basement is like smoking a pack a day and living in a tanning bed in respect to increasing cancer risks. I had a test done and got a call from the state and wanting no occupation of the basement till a mitigation system was installed. Basically a fan sucking out the sump basin. It works well and better air now in the basement then outside Radon I believe is now tested before home is to be sold in MN

 

[Lake Girl]

Selkirk DT combines OAK with exhaust venting but I don't think that is an option for your set-up if you are going through a rim joist as the outside diameter is approximately 7". How much of the basement wall is exposed above grade? Core drilling through the concrete may be an option depending ... Don't know as I would use that installer though.

You need to talk to your local building/fire officials to see if they will approve an install without an OAK. That is the more relevant opinion...

 

[Irish916]

Newer NFPA guidelines like to have most of the heating appliances get a OAK. Where I am in MN we have a major problem with Radon and putting any vacuum in a basement is like smoking a pack a day and living in a tanning bed in respect to increasing cancer risks. I had a test done and got a call from the state and wanting no occupation of the basement till a mitigation system was installed. Basically a fan sucking out the sump basin. It works well and better air now in the basement then outside Radon I believe is now tested before home is to be sold in MN

Thankfully we already have a full radon remediation system installed in our house before the basement was finished. 3 drops through the slab, as well as full mitigation through the sump system. Plus we actively monitor the radon digitally to ensure we're not glowing down there.

 

[Irish916]

Selkirk DT combines OAK with exhaust venting but I don't think that is an option for your set-up if you are going through a rim joist as the outside diameter is approximately 7". How much of the basement wall is exposed above grade? Core drilling through the concrete may be an option depending ... Don't know as I would use that installer though.

You need to talk to your local building/fire officials to see if they will approve an install without an OAK. That is the more relevant opinion...

Does the Selkirk work with Harman units. I'm basically going vertical from the back of the stove up about 6 or 7 feet. At this point, I'll use a thimble as the pipe comes up through the basement ceiling. Once above the ceiling line, I don't care what happens because you wouldn't see it. I could tie in a 3in flex and just go through the rim joist at a different spot than where the vent goes through. I just wonder if Selkirk DT would work?

 

[hossthehermit]

 

[Bioburner]

View attachment 152763

Dog food and Coyote bait

 

[Lake Girl]

I know there are some Harman owners who have DT who are members ... Don2222 may be one. The reason I suggest DT is that you only want one vent for aesthetics.
Catalog under product literature: (broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/selkirk/Product.aspx?id=7428)

BioVent also has an integrated OAK for the first horizontal pipe exiting the thimble but you would see both exhaust and OAK venting up to that point.

I do recall a member writing that he was having trouble with his appliance (can't remember if it was pellet stove or furnace). Turned out they had installed a radon remediation kit over the summer ... YMMV but should be aware that adding that pellet stove w/o an OAK will change air dynamics in the basement.

Now look what you've done ... Did you have to mention beating a dead horse? Some folks and their warped sense of humour

 

[pageyjim]

Selkirk DT combines OAK with exhaust venting but I don't think that is an option for your set-up if you are going through a rim joist as the outside diameter is approximately 7". How much of the basement wall is exposed above grade? Core drilling through the concrete may be an option depending ... Don't know as I would use that installer though.

You need to talk to your local building/fire officials to see if they will approve an install without an OAK. That is the more relevant opinion...

+1

There are stainless concentric vent kits, just don't know why they wouldn't work. Just wasn't sure if they were double wall or not. I have seen them on Rinnai, Noritz and Rheem units.

 

[Irish916]

P-68 gets installed on Tuesday!! The shop took 10% off the price of the stove since this will be the second stove I'm buying from them in the last year!! I'm psyched to be able to heat the finished space in the basement!!

 

[Wilbur Feral]

P-68 gets installed on Tuesday!! The shop took 10% off the price of the stove since this will be the second stove I'm buying from them in the last year!! I'm psyched to be able to heat the finished space in the basement!!

Ummm... Back to your question... What did you actually end up doing? I'm thinking you just went with no OAK, correct?

 

[Irish916]

Ummm... Back to your question... What did you actually end up doing? I'm thinking you just went with no OAK, correct?

We we are going to look at a few options during the install on Tuesday. If we can't find a solution that is aesthetically pleasing, we will just install without an OAK.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

I understand your hesitation, but having run a stove on floor one with an OAK, and a second basement stove without, I assure you that the "without" leaves you with a draft near the floor of the basement, and a considerably drier home overall. It beats having no second stove, of course, but all things considered I can tell you that an OAK - even on the second stove in a basement - is a very welcome component. If possible to add it, I would try to do so.