Observations on the new Harman 52i Insert

[smwilliamson]

These are some things I have observed.

There seems to be a louder resonance or electrical hum to this thing than the older one. While the distribution blower seems quieter, I think the overall hum of this thing is a bit louder than the previous Accentra. Where did all the insulation wrap in the back go? Perhaps that is why it's louder to me? Not sure.

The lentil rods don't reach the lentil anymore.

The 24" inch frame the stove sits in will only fit in a 25 7/8 opening.

The surround is easier to construct than before because the top cast section can be done last...very much an improvement. But perhaps more installer noted.

The machine is lighter overall.

The wheels are a great new feature but there is no longer a seal under the stove? Is that why the stove seams louder?

Lid on the hopper is a lousy design. Hopper needs to form a seal for the auger to feed but pellets can break the seal by getting under the lid and in the gasket. Stupid stupid stupid! Put the gasket BACK on the lid where it used to be and design a guard to keep the pellets from going under the lid.

Casting of the lid feels cheaper than the castings from the rest of the stove. Not the same quality or texture and seams like a slightly different color....that may be mentaberism...sorry for the big word...the way the light reflects the color dependent upon the smoothness or gloss of the surface.

Seems to be a better spot for the wires and how they pass the through the surround to the controls.

Seems like the board has a different program than the previous. Longer start up time. Slower combustion rpm during start up, longer wait for blowers. There seems to be more air in the bud pot and perhaps a more realistic fire if possible.

Same stupid antler set they call logs.

Nicer access to the combustion motor fins

Ash bin has a handle

Better shipping packaging.

The rest we will see during use.

Overall you can start to see the HHT influence in the build and packaging. Things that cost the company money are being addressed on every level. Z boxes are now installer assembled much like bling options. The fit and finish is being somewhat compromised to accommodate weight and production costs.

Overall I think the improvements will be well received by all. I just hope Harman still lives up to its mantra, "Built to a standard. Not a price" perhaps they could just loose the second part in HHT fashion.

 

[Luvmesomesamples]

Great post. I thought long and hard before I ended up going with the accentra vs the newer 52i. I saved 20% and didn't think I would get that money back from the additional efficiency or 7k btu since I feel they achieved this by increasing the feed rate to a max of 6lb per hour., resulting in more pellets. The mirrored glass is cool, and getting rid of the accordion heat exchanger seems like it will be easier to clean, but you can't argue with a classic!

 

[smwilliamson]

Great post. I thought long and hard before I ended up going with the accentra vs the newer 52i. I saved 20% and didn't think I would get that money back from the additional efficiency or 7k btu since I feel they achieved this by increasing the feed rate to a max of 6lb per hour., resulting in more pellets. The mirrored glass is cool, and getting rid of the accordion heat exchanger seems like it will be easier to clean, but you can't argue with a classic!

I forgot to mention mirrored glass...proly cause I'm not a fan of the space race!

 

[St_Earl]

RE: the combustion motor fins- when you say easier access, do you mean the fins can be accessed w/o pulling the motor?
or is it just easier to pull the motor?

just (very) curious.

 

[Luvmesomesamples]

Instead of pulling the motor off to clean it there is just a cover to remove to access and clean the fan. I believe it is on the side vs back as well. In my opinion the biggest upgrades are two quieter dist fans vs 1 noisy one, and the heat exchanger got moved from an inside accordion style that needs to be cleaned occasionally one that is outside the firebox and doesn't need to be cleaned. I believe this is how they increase the efficiency from 78% to 85% but I am not 100% sure.

 

[Enigma869]

I forgot to mention mirrored glass...proly cause I'm not a fan of the space race!

I'm with you on this. I just bought the P68, and the only thing I don't like about the stove is the mirrored glass. I certainly understand the concept behind it (i.e. hide the dirty stove, while not being used). That said, nothing screams 1970's more than mirrored glass of any kind!

 

[smwilliamson]

Harman stoves are not EPA certified for effiency and take the default 78%. The combustion motor is accessBle from the firebox like many of their other product

 

[smwilliamson]

I would rather see a dirty stove...reminds me to clean it. St croix did that with the Hastings but with a screen. Theory was people didn't want to see a dirty stove, remove the screen and calls for "my stove is t working" went way down.

 

[Luvmesomesamples]

I thought the same think re efficiency but the specs on the 52i says 85%. Do you think they actually tested it this year or do you think they actually made an efficiency improvement? I would be interested to know. What are your thoughts on the placement of the heat exchanger? Better? Is this where they are getting the extra btu or did they change the feed rate? I figured they must have increased it to 6lbs per hour max but again not sure. Specs still say 5. Thoughts?

 

[Delta-T]

that 5lb max on the brochure is prolly a typo, even if you give pellets a max btu value of 9K/lb you still dont get 52K btu. they changed the heat exchange material, and the increase in cfm make up the efficiency gain. its gonna eat more pellts than the previous unit to get to 52K, but it is a wee bit more efficient when its doing it.

 

[john193]

I can't find a feed rate on the mt vernon, but interestingly enough the manual still states the max output at 60k while the website states 52k.

 

[stayfitz]

that 5lb max on the brochure is prolly a typo, even if you give pellets a max btu value of 9K/lb you still dont get 52K btu. they changed the heat exchange material, and the increase in cfm make up the efficiency gain. its gonna eat more pellts than the previous unit to get to 52K, but it is a wee bit more efficient when its doing it.

Seems like a rather substantial typo error? Imagine if Harman pulled a marketing stunt... and the unit still has a 5lbs per hour max?

 

[stayfitz]

I can't find a feed rate on the mt vernon, but interestingly enough the manual still states the max output at 60k while the website states 52k.

Mt. Vernon has a 6.1lbs per hour max. The website reference for heat output is more accurate, 60K is not possible @ 6.1lbs

 

[john193]

Mt. Vernon has a 6.1lbs per hour max. The website reference for heat output is more accurate, 60K is not possible @ 6.1lbs

Thanks. That makes sense. So where did the 60k come from? A few years ago the quad website used to say 60k.

 

[Delta-T]

Seems like a rather substantial typo error? Imagine if Harman pulled a marketing stunt... and the unit still has a 5lbs per hour max?

Harman doesn't actually print the brochures, so prolly not a stunt.

 

[stayfitz]

Harman doesn't actually print the brochures, so prolly not a stunt.

Correct, they do not "print" anything. But they have internal resources and potentially a partnership with collateral/marketing material development company. The information/content noted in their manuals, brochures, website, etc did not source from a 3rd party. It could be a very simple mistake? But at the moment, I don't believe it was a mistake... The 52i has many "improvements", but feed rate might not be one of them

 

[Delta-T]

i have the unit, it makes a lot more heat than the previous version...to do so it must consume more pellets. we're not doing rocket surgery here.

 

[stayfitz]

i have the unit, it makes a lot more heat than the previous version...to do so it must consume more pellets. we're not doing rocket surgery here.

Yes, that's my point! Many here just get emotional about their Harman. However, more heat can mean two things - 1) greater heat transfer/efficiency and/or 2) more pellets burned per increment of time

 

[Delta-T]

in this case it means both.

 

[Lousyweather]

Scott's got some good points above.....from the dealer perspective, one of the biggest improvements is the ease of cleaning......one of the biggest problems for us is getting the user to clean the tubes leading to the combustion blower, in particular the left tube, which is noted in this forum ad nauseum. Those tubes no longer exist....now, you have direct access to the combustion fan FROM THE FIREBOX....which is a great improvement.

As for noise, which is a very valid concern.....the stove now has two distribution blowers, so, it moves more air......as for noisier, I'd have to have them running side by side......you certainly can, and will, hear the blowers run....

As in the previous model, pellets can cause the lid not to close. But, there is no longer a lid switch either. I dunno...small potatoes (and some might argue this, I guess), but is it too much to ask to push any errant pellets into the bin prior to closing the door?

Same circuit board, BTW.

all-in-all, I think the changes are a positive one.......time will tell, I guess.......

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

in this case it means both.

Are we sure it is more efficient? Just throwing it out there because I have no idea. The original efficiency rating is just the default for the EPA correct? And the new one needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It theorecticaly could be more, less or as efficient. If I had to take a guess I would say that this one is equal or less. If they got rid of there very efficient accordion style exchanger it was undoubtedly to save money. And becoming more efficient and saving money does not usually add up. That is why to save money most manufacturers go with the flat exchanger.

Feel free to counter this point as I am interested in the engineering aspect if it is indeed a real gain in efficiency.

 

[Delta-T]

i'm not generally know for speculation. as i have already stated, they changed the actual material the heat exchanger is made of, and increased the cfm of the blowers which account for the increase in efficiency.

 

[john193]

Too bad we don't have the surface area of the new heat exchanger to compare with the "older" model.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

i'm not generally know for speculation. as i have already stated, they changed the actual material the heat exchanger is made of, and increased the cfm of the blowers which account for the increase in efficiency.

I love speculation lol.

Do we know what the new material is or the surface area?

 

[smwilliamson]

Are we sure it is more efficient? Just throwing it out there because I have no idea. The original efficiency rating is just the default for the EPA correct? And the new one needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It theorecticaly could be more, less or as efficient. If I had to take a guess I would say that this one is equal or less. If they got rid of there very efficient accordion style exchanger it was undoubtedly to save money. And becoming more efficient and saving money does not usually add up. That is why to save money most manufacturers go with the flat exchanger.

Feel free to counter this point as I am interested in the engineering aspect if it is indeed a real gain in efficiency.

Well in theory here, the older style exchanger was severely marginalized when the unit became dirty. Not so anymore, so that's a big plus. Easier cleaning is also a great benefit. My issue with the hopper lid is that pellet get behind the lid very easily and then the lid won't close right but you cannot remove the pellets from under it either.