Off peak electric for suplimentary heat to water storage tank

[Scotty2]

Our normal cost for peak electricity is almost 11+ cents kWh (that's taking our current bill and dividing by kWh used)...off peak is closer to 3.5 cents.
Anyone have an idea if off peak is a good price compared to Oak at $200+ per cord...and often needing another year to fully cure.
Regards, Scotty

 

[Buzz Saw]

Have to compare BTU's /dollar to answer your question. Not sure how to find those values though.
One name I know that might be able to help would be @jebatty.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Assume 1 cord of wood has 21,000,000 BTU available
Then $200 / 21,000,000 * 1,000,000 = $9.52/miljonBTU

1 kWh = 3,412 BTU
1,000,000 / 3,412 * $0.035 = $10.26/miljonBTU

Electric is "still" more expensive, but not much, and much less "work and time" then cord wood

 

[peakbagger]

If you factor in a Hear Pump Hot Water Heater the economics shift towards electric. Also not factored in is the wood to hot water efficiency, at best 75% versus electric to hot water, 100%. The conversion efficieny of green oak will be even worse.

 

[Buzz Saw]

Another consideration; Hiw long are the off peak rates locked in? Two , five ,ten years? Wood prices will also go up with time but I would bet electric out paces wood(coal and natural gas will be depleted).

Wish I had off peak rates. [emoji20]

 

[jebatty]

Wood to hot water conversion can get into the 80-90% range with well seasoned wood (20% MC, 6050 btu/lb, 400F stack temp), Have achieved that with a Wood Gun E500, Garn WHS 3200, and Tarm Solo Plus 40.

 

[maple1]

Man - if I could get electricity for $0.035/kwh, I would be seriously looking into that.

Our utility isn't very 'off peak' friendly, but I'm hoping that improves in the future - I could convert my storage & electric boiler to do that quite easily, I think. But it's pretty much a non-starter when starting with a 'normal' rate of $0.18/kwh.

Are you sure about that 3.5 cents rate? Almost seems to be one of those too good to be true numbers.

 

[goosegunner]

Man - if I could get electricity for $0.035/kwh, I would be seriously looking into that.

Our utility isn't very 'off peak' friendly, but I'm hoping that improves in the future - I could convert my storage & electric boiler to do that quite easily, I think. But it's pretty much a non-starter when starting with a 'normal' rate of $0.18/kwh.

Are you sure about that 3.5 cents rate? Almost seems to be one of those too good to be true numbers.

We have a program with our electric coop where the rate is 1/2 the normal rate. It puts you on load management with a second meter and a radio controlled device. I had a electric plenum heater for a while. It actually worked fairly well. I pulled it all when I got my boiler.

The one issue was the extra fees for the second meter. It added $32 a month to the bill before any use year round. That was 6 years ago and I would guess its more now because there has been a shift here in Wisconsin to increase connection fees due to people using less electricity.

gg

 

[Scotty2]

Supposedly in Oregon the Utility company is required to replace the meter at no charge for net metering....that's the back and forth flow of electricity if you have solar or? I'll look into the second meter and a radio controlled device (our meter is already read remotely, the think the meter readers got tired of all the gates and guard dogs ).
As the GARN has the Electric Heating Package, I'm hoping to do a combo of off peak, solar and wood. Oregon and the Feds also have some great grants, incentives and Tax credits if you can put the package together properly...e.g. solar, off peak electric heat with 1800 gallon hot water storage and wood backup...not wood heat with 1800 gallon hot water store and solar/off peak backup. Hmmm
Scotty

 

[Scotty2]

I found the info on the utility companies web site regarding peak/off peak charges
Time of Use pricing is divided into three different price categories for three different parts of the day.

Time period Definition Price per kWh*
On-peak Demand for electricity is highest.
You pay the highest price per kilowatt-hour. Price is higher than Basic Service. 10.890¢/kWh*
Mid-peak Demand for electricity is between on-peak and off-peak. 6.189¢/kWh*
Off-peak Demand for electricity is the lowest.
You pay the lowest price per kilowatt-hour. Price is lower than Basic Service. Sundays are considered off-peak, as are select holidays, including New Year’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas. 3.632¢/kWh*

 

[maple1]

There is a Garn in the classified section if you haven't seen it. Or was a few days ago.

You could also add an electric boiler to most any system & other boiler if you wanted. They're fairly cheap.

 

[Buzz Saw]

Supposedly in Oregon the Utility company is required to replace the meter at no charge for net metering....that's the back and forth flow of electricity if you have solar or? I'll look into the second meter and a radio controlled device (our meter is already read remotely, the think the meter readers got tired of all the gates and guard dogs ).
As the GARN has the Electric Heating Package, I'm hoping to do a combo of off peak, solar and wood. Oregon and the Feds also have some great grants, incentives and Tax credits if you can put the package together properly...e.g. solar, off peak electric heat with 1800 gallon hot water storage and wood backup...not wood heat with 1800 gallon hot water store and solar/off peak backup. Hmmm
Scotty

Whwre can I find info on the Federal grants/ money you mentioned?

 

[Chris Hoskin]

Using your wood boiler system's thermal storage to store energy generated with off-peak electricity is a great idea. Common in Europe and STSS had/has a system just for that. As others have said, an electric boiler would be a good option if you can't put electric elements directly in your tank(s). In my experience the utility changes your electric meter to one that measures WHEN you use electricity as well as how much. Your off-peak rates are usually lower and your on-peak rates are usually higher. Your utility may do it differently, so it will be important to find out the details. If you can get an off-peak meter dedicated to the thermal storage, I would think that would be ideal. Keep us posted!

 

[Scotty2]

Whwre can I find info on the Federal grants/ money you mentioned?

I'm fairly new to this. Here's what I suggest and I hope to add to it in the future. I've used Oregon as an example as it's what I'm researching.
First off, there is often Federal, State, Local (city/county), and Utility rebates, incentives, tax credits.
Federal; USDA has the REAP (Rural Energy for America Program); provides guaranteed loan financing and grant funding to ag and rural small business for Biomass, hydro, wind, solar. An online search for solar/heating/thermal/whatever grants/incentives/tax credits should bring up more options
State Dept. of Energy; Some states offer a energy tax credit for wood stoves with phase 2 certification. This can vary by state and what they require. For example, Oregon DOE offers a tax credit of approximately $1440 for a GARN 2000.
Local utilities (both electric and gas), have teamed up with Energy Trust of Oregon...and through the Energy Trust you can get grants/credits etc. for everything from upgrading your hot water heater to installing solar to putting in a more efficient dishwasher, to upgrading your insulation in house or shop...you get the idea. Additionally, check with your local Utilities regarding off-peak metering and pricing
If it turns out there is enough interest in this, we may start a new chat
Regards, Scotty

 

[Karl_northwind]

Whwre can I find info on the Federal grants/ money you mentioned?

Try here, not everything, but lots are here.

http://www.dsireusa.org

karl