Oiling exhaust fan on Whitfield Advantage IIT...

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somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
The manual for the Whitfield IIT (through all it's iterations) says...

MOTOR LUBRICATION

Room Air Blower: The room air blower is permanently
lubricated by the manufacturer. Do not apply oil to any
part of the blower, doing so may cause damage
.

Exhaust Blower: The exhaust blower requires lubrication
every 6 months or yearly, depending on use, with not
more than two drops of 30 weight, SAE, nondetergent oil
at the two lubrication points on blower.

These two lubrication points are mentioned in every version of the manual but I have never seen them illustrated.

Where are these two lubrication points?

Anyone got a picture or diagram?
 

Cincinnati Kid

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2009
294
Cincinnati
I dont have a picture but on my Advantage Plus, it has two small black rubber pieces that cover the oil ports on top of the fan. Simply pull them off and oil as appropriate. They are a pain to get back into the port holes.
 
The motors are usually installed with the oil ports UP. Look on the motor casing fore and aft of the stator. There should be black plastic or rubber stoppers, they have a small hole in the center of them, but those are not weep holes, those are hallows so you can push and pull the plugs out. Add you oil and then reinstall the plugs. I use a small .005 allan key to pull em out and push them back in. If they are YELLOW, be careful. The yellow ones are vinyl plugs and most certainly will not come out in one piece and will never go back in. If they are yellow, I discard them.
 

somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
Based on experience with electric motors over the years I expected to see the two rubber nubbies, but no.

That's why I asked for a picture or illustration.

Thanks for both the replies. Hopefully someone has a pic.
 

newdivision

Member
Sep 29, 2009
3
Waterbury, CT
I would check the underside of the motor housing. I think I remember reading on here somewhere where some of the motors were put in with the oil ports facing down. You will have to take the motor off and rotate it half a turn to get the oil ports facing up.
 

somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
I have owned this stove since new.

The motor has never been replaced.

The motor is not upside down with oil ports on the bottom.

The selling dealer included one free yearly service and I suspect he pulled the nubbies and did not put them back.
Regardless, there are no rubber nubbies anywhere and no marked oil ports (as I've seen on some motors).

There are a variety of holes in the motor housing and I won't drop oil down any of them until I KNOW which ones are the two oil ports

What I need is a picture or illustration of the two oil ports. If anyone can help with that I'd appreciate it.
 

somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
Northeaster2010 said:
Check out the manual at this site it shows lub points on the both motors:

http://www.butkus.org/whitfield_pellet_stove.htm
Thanks for pointing that out but I've already seen it... that illustration doesn't show the other holes that are also in the motor housing and I was hoping to be sure of the correct oiling holes.

Interesting that it says to oil both motors and the printed manual says "Room Air Blower: The room air blower is permanently lubricated by the manufacturer. do not apply oil to any part of the blower, doing so may cause damage".

Perhaps he posted instruction from the very early Advantage, as the picture of the cover shows, and Whitfield revved to a sealed bushing-bearing room air blower motor for the IIT.
 

Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
OK

I cleaned our Whitfield this morning (just a bit ago) and opened the side door and took some piccy's and oiled the motor

I use an Insulin Syringe with the 30 Wt or hight temp oil.
Use a finish nail about 2 inches long or suitable BLUNT pointed item that will fit into the plugs core to reinsert the plugs.

Here are the piccy's

Snowy
 

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somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
Snowy Rivers said:
OK

I cleaned our Whitfield this morning (just a bit ago) and opened the side door and took some piccy's and oiled the motor

I use an Insulin Syringe with the 30 Wt or high temp oil.
Use a finish nail about 2 inches long or suitable BLUNT pointed item that will fit into the plugs core to reinsert the plugs.

Snowy
You da man... thanks, and here's a tip for you and anyone oiling electric motors that are subjected to high temps... Mobil 1 works very well to oil bushings-bearings where they are subjected to high temps.

Now, if I could find somewhere to get some rubber nubbies...
 
I

imacman

Guest
somedumbname said:
Snowy Rivers said:
OK

I cleaned our Whitfield this morning (just a bit ago) and opened the side door and took some piccy's and oiled the motor

I use an Insulin Syringe with the 30 Wt or high temp oil.
Use a finish nail about 2 inches long or suitable BLUNT pointed item that will fit into the plugs core to reinsert the plugs.

Snowy
You da man... thanks, and here's a tip for you and anyone oiling electric motors that are subjected to high temps... Mobil 1 works very well to oil bushings-bearings where they are subjected to high temps.

Now, if I could find somewhere to get some rubber nubbies...
Snowy may use 30 wt., but most electric motors of this type are meant to be lubed with straight SAE 20 non-detergent oil.

One of the best, IMO, is the 3 in 1 in the blue can.....( it's meant for electric motors).

http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/
 

somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
imacman said:
Snowy may use 30 wt., but most electric motors of this type are meant to be lubed with straight SAE 20 non-detergent oil.

One of the best, IMO, is the 3 in 1 in the blue can.....( it's meant for electric motors).

http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/
The flash point of the 3 in 1 blue is less than 350 degree F. http://www.3inone.com/files/pdf/msds-3in31675284.pdf

Mobil 1 has a higher flash point of 437 degrees F which makes it more suitable for the exhaust fan. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.aspx

The exhaust fan motor on a pellet stove sees very high temps for a small electric motor.
 

SmokeyTheBear

Minister of Fire
Nov 10, 2008
13,363
Standish, ME
somedumbname said:
imacman said:
Snowy may use 30 wt., but most electric motors of this type are meant to be lubed with straight SAE 20 non-detergent oil.

One of the best, IMO, is the 3 in 1 in the blue can.....( it's meant for electric motors).

http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/
The flash point of the 3 in 1 blue is less than 350 degree F. http://www.3inone.com/files/pdf/msds-3in31675284.pdf

Mobil 1 has a higher flash point of 437 degrees F which makes it more suitable for the exhaust fan. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.aspx

The exhaust fan motor on a pellet stove sees very high temps for a small electric motor.
You use the oil recommended by the motor manufacturer that recommendation takes into consideration how that particular motor is going to be used. If the manufacturer says SAE 30 then that is what you use if they say graphite, well you get the picture.
 

Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
What I have in the Syringe is a slight mix of 30Wt and some high temp turbine oil.

Local stove shop some years ago got me onto the mix.. Fellow had been a turbine tech in the Navy and had used this mixture on stove motors for years.


Follow what the Mfg says though, they are going to cover the warranty if it fails.

Snowy
 

somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
SmokeyTheBear said:
You use the oil recommended by the motor manufacturer that recommendation takes into consideration how that particular motor is going to be used. If the manufacturer says SAE 30 then that is what you use if they say graphite, well you get the picture.
With respect, a motor manufacturer may not know what the installation environment of their product will be. They manufacture to the contractor's specifications. May be pellet stove, intake or exhaust, or may be a thousand other environments.

One can cross a Fasco motor and never see it listed as "pellet stove exhaust" in a Grainger catalog...

And there was no need for the snide get the picture remark.
 

somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
imacman said:
somedumbname said:
The flash point of the 3 in 1 blue is less than 350 degree F.

http://www.3inone.com/files/pdf/msds-3in31675284.pdf....
While Mobil 1 may have a higher flash point and is a great oil, I think you need to read the MSDS sheet for the 3 in 1 oil that you referenced a little closer.....it specifically says flash point is ">350°F" .
I stand corrected... Flash point specified >350 degrees F means that the oil will flash at no less than that temperature. That means the oil will ignite at 351 degrees F.
 

Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
In regards to the oils used on these exhaust blowers.

The type of oil is important buttttttttttt can vary a lot and still be fine.

The oil needs to be able to tollerate heat well and not dry out/turn to a gum or evaporate.

High temp turbine oil is a great oil and will tollerate the heat real well.

These motors have two Oilite (TM) or sintered bronze busings/sleave bearings.

The oil soaks into the small pores in the bronze and thus lubricates the bearing.

The use of the oilite on the exhaust fan is pretty straight forward. The temperature is high enough and the conducted heat through from the impeller makes the use of a ball bearing less inviting.

The grease in a ball bearing, operating at high temps can cause the material to either run out or solidify into a hard mass with and "Channel" leaving the bearing basically dry.

The sleave bearing with ports to lube it are far more reliable.

Now this is not to say that a bearing that will stand the heat can't be used but, the cost is going to go North at warp speed.

The stove Mfg try hard to keep the costs as low as possible when they are building/designing the stove.

This is the same reason that the control boards are mostly built over seas now instead of the Mfg using off the shelf technology made here in the states.


Outfits like Fasco will build just about any blower to spec for an OEM

Fasco does not stock many of these blowers as an OFF THE SHELF item.

They may have something close but not exactly the same.

For a room air blower, there is a lot of lattitude as it just blows air and can usually be adjusted via a variable triac control "Knob"

The exhaust fans need to meet different specs/speeds etc and depending on the application will have a wide variety of mounting flanges and such.

Snowy
 

Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
I did not see that the "GET THE PICTURE" remark was "Snide" just simply using it to mean Yeah , all the above and whatever else applies.

I would not take it as cutting or otherwise meant as a slam.

Just my humble opinion.

Snowy
 

Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
Using a product like Aero shell 500/560 or 750 should be perfect.

These oils have a flashover point of between 500F to 680F and are designed to perform in some fairly nasty environments.

This stuff will not "Coke" like regular engine oils will

Regular oils can form some very nasty hard "Coal/carbon" like deposits when subjected to high heat.

This is why you see semi truck drivers letting their trucks idle after coming in to park.
This allows the turbo charger to cool down below "Coking" temperature.

A diesel engine generally uses a turbo with a hard bronze sleave bearing that is pressure lubricated with engine oil off the main lubricating system.

Not allowing the thing to cool can cause a mass of carbon to form in the bearing cartridge area and over time result in a failed bearing.


Just some interesting INFO.

Snowy
 

somedumbname

New Member
Oct 28, 2010
9
SW USA
The Mobil 1 tip was not my idea. The Mobil 1 tip was given to me by an engineer that was involved in the Advantage project way back when at Whitfield.

Since I know he knows more than me I'll take his recommendation and used Mobil 1.

I appreciate the pictures and will file them away.

Thanks to the forum.
 

Pellet-King

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2008
1,640
Northern Ct
Never oiled my fan, 12 yr's old, nonstop use nov-apr, it works fine why bother, those lil rubber plugs are a b!#$h
 

Snowy Rivers

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
1,810
NW Oregon
The rubber plugs can be put back in quite easily using a little finishing nail.

Stick the head end of the nail into the plugs little port and then push the plug into the hole.
A little pressure on the nail and the plug will go right it. ZOOOOOOOOOP.

Snowy
 

SmokeyTheBear

Minister of Fire
Nov 10, 2008
13,363
Standish, ME
somedumbname said:
imacman said:
somedumbname said:
The flash point of the 3 in 1 blue is less than 350 degree F.

http://www.3inone.com/files/pdf/msds-3in31675284.pdf....
While Mobil 1 may have a higher flash point and is a great oil, I think you need to read the MSDS sheet for the 3 in 1 oil that you referenced a little closer.....it specifically says flash point is ">350°F" .
I stand corrected... Flash point specified >350 degrees F means that the oil will flash at no less than that temperature. That means the oil will ignite at 351 degrees F.
No it doesn't mean that at all.

I was going after the fact that you and imacman were not following the manufacturers recommendation and I have a very good reason to say exactly what I did.

Having a TOC of >350°F means exactly what it says, for natural oils the actual temperature that maintains a fire for more than 5 seconds is approximately 30°C above TOC flashpoint.

Now an example for everyone SAE #30 the recommended oil in Snowy's example has a TOC flash point of 475°F this is above the normal thermal shutdown temperature of a combustion blower motor. The thermal shutdown will then lead to loss of vacuum which stops the pellet feed.

I'll leave the SAE #20 or 3in1 Blue can as an exercise for any interested reader.
 
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