Old Englander 25-PDV (12/1992)

[numbcoffee]

Hello all;

Just picked up a working 25-PDV from 1992, no ignitor or any of that fancy stuff, I can't see to find an old manual for it and would really love to find one as I think the previous owner got a little reckless with some wiring, anyone know where I can get one?

Cheers!

 

[BackDoc]

I have the same stove. I got my manual online from Englander. If you have any wiring issues or electrical issues there is a guy on here with the screen name of Ssyko. He will get you straight on an Englander.

 

[numbcoffee]

I have the same stove. I got my manual online from Englander. If you have any wiring issues or electrical issues there is a guy on here with the screen name of Ssyko. He will get you straight on an Englander.

Thanks so much for that, I did find a YouTube video of a chap cleaning out a similar model, looks as though it has the same board. After comparing the wiring seems identical. I am not getting any of the convection fans to kick on, even after it warms up and was curious as the auger wiring was a little off. The guy I bought it off said those fans were really noisy so maybe they've passed on, he said he placed a box fan behind it.

Probably needs new motors...

 

[Ssyko]

Welcome to the forums numbcoffee.
If you take an old lamp cord and connect to each motor 1 at a time you can test their functionality by plugging directly into your wall outlet. As for the manual this should be for your vintage.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2071/6041/files/pre-04.25-PDVC.pdf?16038191828835072939

 

[numbcoffee]

Thanks for the welcome and for that handy diagnostic trick. Looking at the manual this one seems a little modern, my circuit board is the two knob style and the firebox contains three removable plates that sit on the heat convection tubes.

But the wire trick will definitely help me see what the motors are doing. To be honest my test might not have been great either as I really didn't have any fresh pellets and hadn't really been able to clean it out thoroughly so maybe it didn't get up to temperature enough to kick them on

 

[numbcoffee]

Thanks for the welcome and for that handy diagnostic trick. Looking at the manual this one seems a little modern, my circuit board is the two knob style and the firebox contains three removable plates that sit on the heat convection tubes.

But the wire trick will definitely help me see what the motors are doing. To be honest my test might not have been great either as I really didn't have any fresh pellets and hadn't really been able to clean it out thoroughly so maybe it didn't get up to temperature enough to kick them on

Yep, I was correct, didn't have fresh pellets in sufficient quantity. Did a basic clean out and put some fresh pellets in one fan kicked on, I thought well this isn't a strong output the other motor must be gone, then the other activated and it was putting out quite a bit.

So I will do a proper, proper clean, take the blowers out and clean them all up, hopefully should do the trick so I can get everything installed.

Thanks all for the help.

 

[Smokinbubba]

A leaf blower will b the best investment you will ever make.

 

[numbcoffee]

Well it’s been a little milder than expected in Michigan so far, well until today. So after all of the cleaning, me and the wife were both home all weekend, I could get it in and goodness me it’s wonderful.

Now I need a plan to get the heat distributed to where it’s needed

 

[SidecarFlip]

Welcome to the forums numbcoffee.
If you take an old lamp cord and connect to each motor 1 at a time you can test their functionality by plugging directly into your wall outlet. As for the manual this should be for your vintage.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2071/6041/files/pre-04.25-PDVC.pdf?16038191828835072939

My first pellet stove, long before they became popular. Mine was the 2 knob model but I 'upgraded' it to the 2 button control board. Stupid heavy too, like a Diebold Safe.... Very simple stove to maintain and all the motors and parts you can still buy online afrermarket.

Long gone however. Sold it to a guy in Ohio.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Thinking back to my long gone pellet burner I remembered something. Those units are prone to burn back because of the way they feed pellets. Happened to me once. You need to make doubly sure the hopper lid latches are tight and never run the unit unattended with the hopper lid open. The limited space between the upper auger and the lower auger will allow burning pellets to back up in the lower feed auger if the unit is run low heat output. That ignites the pellets in the upper auger and eventually gets to the hopper itself. That and the fact that it has very limited ash containment in the burn pot itself so daily cleaning is almost mandatory. If I remember correctly, I enlarged the combustion air holes in the removable lower plate as well. I like to play with them to get more efficiency, something I've done with my present 6039 USSC. I've modified it quite a bit over the years.

Reason I went with the 6039 is it's a true multi-fuel and I burn corn and pellets and have burned cherry pits and dried soy beans too. Soy beans, being an oil seed, requires careful monitoring and mixing with another fuel like hardwood pellets or things can get out of hand pretty quick.

Presently, I'm running field corn and pellets in a 3-1 mix. The corn is 10%RM and burns extremely hot so the pellets temper that a bit. Corn is much dirtier than pellets and produces a huge amount of ash, both fly and settled so the unit must be cleaned every other day, but on the plus side, fuel consumption is much less. I'm roasting about 60 pounds of mix every 24 hours and keeping the entire house (not just the room where the stove is), at 70 and it's 23 outside and slightly windy.

 

[numbcoffee]

Thinking back to my long gone pellet burner I remembered something. Those units are prone to burn back because of the way they feed pellets. Happened to me once. You need to make doubly sure the hopper lid latches are tight and never run the unit unattended with the hopper lid open. The limited space between the upper auger and the lower auger will allow burning pellets to back up in the lower feed auger if the unit is run low heat output. That ignites the pellets in the upper auger and eventually gets to the hopper itself. That and the fact that it has very limited ash containment in the burn pot itself so daily cleaning is almost mandatory. If I remember correctly, I enlarged the combustion air holes in the removable lower plate as well. I like to play with them to get more efficiency, something I've done with my present 6039 USSC. I've modified it quite a bit over the years.

Reason I went with the 6039 is it's a true multi-fuel and I burn corn and pellets and have burned cherry pits and dried soy beans too. Soy beans, being an oil seed, requires careful monitoring and mixing with another fuel like hardwood pellets or things can get out of hand pretty quick.

Presently, I'm running field corn and pellets in a 3-1 mix. The corn is 10%RM and burns extremely hot so the pellets temper that a bit. Corn is much dirtier than pellets and produces a huge amount of ash, both fly and settled so the unit must be cleaned every other day, but on the plus side, fuel consumption is much less. I'm roasting about 60 pounds of mix every 24 hours and keeping the entire house (not just the room where the stove is), at 70 and it's 23 outside and slightly windy.

Thanks so much for that, I have run the stove pretty much all of yesterday but let it burn out so that the propane furnace can keep the basement warm as it went down to 7° F last night.

I did notice yesterday after a day of use that there was quite a build up of ash on the lower plate and the glass was getting pretty dirty after a day of use, is there a way to improve that? Would making the combustion holes bigger help?

 

[BackDoc]

When I blocked off the two holes in under the burn plate and then did the mods on the burn plate that Ssyko diagrammed it made a big difference for my stove. This is the photo I used to make the mods.

 

[numbcoffee]

BackDoc, now I am curious. Let me get a picture when I get home, I think my stove is so old that its burn plate looks totally different, what would be the best way to block off the holes?

Cheers for the help

 

[BackDoc]

Mine looks different in that the two large semicircle holes dont exist on my plate. I drilled the others as indicated and blocked the top holes in yellow off with stove cement.

 

[numbcoffee]

I am in, heading to Home Depot on the way home to get some stove cement. I will definitely keep everyone in the loop as to what happens.

Really happy that the stove is up and running as the propane anxiety on a cold day was beginning to be a problem. That and my wife rightfully complaining about having the house at 65° constantly. I just told her on the phone to feel free if she wants to turn the stove temperature up.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Reason I mentioned burn back in the first place was I observed your picture with it running and the lid latches up. Big mistake on them. ALWAYS have the latches locked and TIGHT.

The old Englander's are hampered by limited ash space by their very nature, the main reason I sold mine actually. It's an old, obsolete design.

Every unit buggers up the view glass with fly ash, never seen one that didn't. It's inherent with any stove, wood stoves included.

They all brag about 'air wash'. In reality, the only 'wash' is the bs wash.

Because of the limited ash handling capacity, I would suggest following what the owners manual says and clean it daily and remove the hard carbon that will collect on the burn plate and in the corners of the pot with a screwdriver. Soak the burn plate in warm water to loosen the hard carbon, it will come right off with a putty knife.

None of them should ever be considered a primary heat source because they aren't and never will be.

They are all supplemental heat sources and should be looked at that way.

In reality, because of the design, Englander's aren't very efficient and require almost daily attention but most of all, keep that hopper lid locked down and don't tell your insurance carrier you have it. I too live in Michigan, not far from you and under the insurance laws in this state, having a solid fuel appliance in your home that wasn't professionally installed (with documentation) can and will cause cancellation of your homeowners or renters insurance.

 

[numbcoffee]

Cheers for the help. I did get the stove for a really good price as the chap I bought it off recently had access to natural gas and didn't need it anymore. Will definitely keep quiet about having it.

I thought for now it would be a good start, if we love it then I can look into upgrading later but the priority was to get a little more comfort.

 

[Smokinbubba]

SCflip, I must respectfully disagree with a couple of your statements above. I am in central Ohio so my climate is a shade warmer that yours but my PDV is my sole source of heat. With a properly tuned englander PDV, you can achieve a clean glass, zero clinkers, and no hard carbon except on the nose of the auger and bottom of auger tube. The three bottom magic numbers adjust your low fuel rate and combustion air. The far right magic number should never be above 1 per ESW. When these are dialed in, I get a fine gray ash. My glass stays mostly clean for days. Daily cleaning entails scooping powder ash from burn plate to make room for more. That's it.

As for blocking off the 2 air holes under the burn plate, I used 2 magnets. 1.5"x1" rectangle. Worked perfectly for my 3/4" holes. This made the most difference in keeping the glass clean and burning pellets completely. I have not yet drilled out the holes or blocked any off. Maybe in the near future tho.
That said, every stove is different and maybe I just got lucky...

 

[numbcoffee]

Smokinbubba. My Englander is an older vintage, two knob style so unless I upgrade the board, is it possible to upgrade the board? I am stuck with the air hole modifications. We were hoping it would do the brunt of the work to heat the house, my other half has been happy with it so far

 

[Ssyko]

Yes you can upgrade, and it would let you manipulate settings a lot more than you have now.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Yes, everyone is different. Having said that, my 6039 is light years better. Not a Harman but didn't carry the Harman price tag either.

If I had NG available (which I don't), I'd never have a bio-mass stove at all. They aren't economically even close to BTU output compared to NG.

Having said that, I would never consider one as a primary heat source anyway. Mine is strictly supplemental heat, in fact, the propane furnace is running right now.

Got into bio mass back when propane was through the roof (remember the oil crisis) because propane is a by product of cracking petroleum for motor fuel. I don't see returning to that in my lifetime at least and I'd probably not even be using it this year if it wasn't for the fact that I get free corn. When and if the free corn peters out (and it may, nothing is cast in stone), I'll be back to an idle stove and central propane heat.

I much prefer the central heat, especially from the low maintenance standpoint.

 

[Smokinbubba]

"If I had NG available (which I don't), I'd never have a bio-mass stove at all. They aren't economically even close to BTU output compared to NG."
I hear ya, No NG here either! Its propane or oil for me. I prefer neither. I do have a couple electric space heaters on stats in case my stove goes out.

 

[numbcoffee]

When I blocked off the two holes in under the burn plate and then did the mods on the burn plate that Ssyko diagrammed it made a big difference for my stove. This is the photo I used to make the mods. View attachment 255591

Ok so we have a much older model it looks like as the plate is different and much thicker apparently, curious as to what improvements we could make to this one...

 

[SidecarFlip]

Propane is still very reasonable here. I own 3, 500 gallon tanks running in tandem and I fill them in the summer when the spot price is lowest. I think I paid $1.03 last summer and that will carry me through the entire heating season. Of course there will be next year but I won't worry about that until this coming summer. Owning the tanks allows me to shop for the lowest price, which I do, every year.

I put my pencil to it a couple years ago and came up with... If propane is $1.25 per gallon and pellets are $250 a ton, it's about break even. Having said that, pellets here dropped in price substantially (I think because propane went way down so people around here went back to propane) but

 

[Ssyko]

Numbcoffee can you post a picture of the front of your stove and then a pic of the burn pot the plate sits on?