Old Stove vs New Stove

[CountryBoy19]

Thanks for the explanation. I actually printed out the entire EPA list and whittled it down to the England brand and a couple of others, but they were more difficult to obtain. But no where has it explained the smart feature, if it is electronic, I think I'll stick to old fashion! lol

It's not electric, it's Thermo-mechanical. It has a mechanical device in it that triggers the air to close once the temperature rises; it's a metal wound spring that concracts/relaxes with temperature changes, the pushes a small trip/trigger that engages a preset primary air selection. It's a pretty cool idea, there are a few threads here somewhere with pictures of the mechanism.

 

[RSQJEEP]

What part of MD you from?

Queenstown area!

 

[RSQJEEP]

It's not electric, it's Thermo-mechanical. It has a mechanical device in it that triggers the air to close once the temperature rises; it's a metal wound spring that concracts/relaxes with temperature changes, the pushes a small trip/trigger that engages a preset primary air selection. It's a pretty cool idea, there are a few threads here somewhere with pictures of the mechanism.

Ohhhh, ok, you explained it better than the manual, thank you.
What is the likelihood of this will wear out and have to be replaced?
Anyone has any real world experience with these stoves? Theoretically it sounds good, but does it really work like it is supposed to?

 

[begreen]

Search for threads on "Madison". That was the first iteration of their smart stove. Some of the first units had incorrectly installed mechanisms that were causing problems. That production issue appears to be fixed now. You don't have to use this feature. It can be run like a regular stove too.

 

[chance04]

Queenstown area!

Right around the corner

 

[WayneN]

Search for threads on "Madison". That was the first iteration of their smart stove. Some of the first units had incorrectly installed mechanisms that were causing problems. That production issue appears to be fixed now. You don't have to use this feature. It can be run like a regular stove too.

I just bought the Madison. Haven't fired it up yet but it looks awesome. From the reviews, she should heat my 1024 Sq ft house easily

Also a Marylander by the way. Sparrows point/ Baltimore County



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[FTG-05]

Keep in mind that the NC-30 requires a hearth with an R-value of 2 (IIRC), if his current hearth doesn't meet that the cost of redoing the hearth isn't small; choosing the newer Englander smart-stove will be much cheaper to meet hearth requirements.

Unless they've changed it, the R requirement for the 30-NC is 1.5. This can be met with four layers of 1/2" Durock Nexgen concrete board.

I don't know if the OP's current hearth meets that requirement or not, so I'll leave it to the experts to comment.

 

[Huntindog1]

As some one already mentioned you will need good seasoned wood 20% moisture content or less.
People get these new stoves and try to burn not so good wood and it doesnt work.

As far as the NC30 you cant beat it . you can load North/South Loading or East/West Loading.
It has a deep bottom so you dont have to empty ashes all the time.

 

[blades]

NC 30 ashes- depends a bit on the fuel but typicaly for me a 1/2 doz . full load firings before needing to remove ashes. running mixed hardwoods which can be boxwood to Ironwood. One thing is you can build up quite a coal load when running it hard - I have found that a couple of the compressed wood blocks on top of a raked up coal pile does a nice job of reduction.

 

[RSQJEEP]

I just bought the Madison. Haven't fired it up yet but it looks awesome. From the reviews, she should heat my 1024 Sq ft house easily

Also a Marylander by the way. Sparrows point/ Baltimore County

View attachment 187732

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What are the clearances on that? Is it less than the 30NC because the Madison sits higher? Looks great!

 

[WayneN]

What are the clearances on that? Is it less than the 30NC because the Madison sits higher? Looks great!

Yes much less clearance. Only need ember protection and no hearth heat protection too due to the height. From the rear it specifies 7.5 inch, sides specify 21.5 inch. I still need to finish the outdoor stack before I fire her up. Been forced to work days off and 15 hrs days all week. Not fun it's getting cold and I need to bake in the paint still ughhh

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[mitchell721]

maybe I can kind of take out some of your confusion on the smart stove. It's spark and ember only. So you don't need the R value of others. So anything non combustable would work as a hearth extention for you. The automatic feature is something that optional so you don't have to really worry about where out. It's part of the main air control. I don't use mine unless I'm doing stuff on start up and don't want to worry about the stove running away if I get sidetracked.

 

[gerry100]

used an old style "Jumbo Moe" for 30 years to heat the house.

Went to a Country Canyon ST310 few years ago and glad we did.( EPA non cat)

Can't measure the improved efficiency very well but it is there.

One thing I do like is the reduced chimney cleaning required, with old "Moe" I'd get about 5 gals of crunchy creosote out twice a season).This required a mid January trip up on the roof , which I don't miss at all. With the new stove, I get about 2 gallons of "soot", at the end of the season.

If you've got the dough, I'd go for an EPA stove ( non cat for me, the less moving parts the better) AND a matched chimney liner. Then you don't have to worry about you old chimney.

Be aware that the new EPA stoves "drive " differently, it took me a while to break my old habits. Get one with a window, sometimes it's the best thing on TV, but drive it by the top temperature.

Good luck, you can learn a lot here

 

[kennyp2339]

Yes much less clearance. Only need ember protection and no hearth heat protection too due to the height. From the rear it specifies 7.5 inch, sides specify 21.5 inch

Please keep in mind that if your using single wall black pipe you need to make sure you have at a minimum 18" clearance all the way around from combustibles, so set your stove following either the 18" from stove pipe or what Englander specifies, which ever is the minimum.

 

[WayneN]

Please keep in mind that if your using single wall black pipe you need to make sure you have at a minimum 18" clearance all the way around from combustibles, so set your stove following either the 18" from stove pipe or what Englander specifies, which ever is the minimum.

I'm within spec except for a 10 inch section just before the elbow, which is only 16 inches from the ceiling. The 3 wall goes into a 1 wall reducer and a very short horizontal ( 8-10 inch ) section. Then into a single wall elbow. I may go get some double wall to the elbow just to be safe though.

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[bcrtops]

Old vs. New question.
We updated in 2008 & have not been sorry.
We burned ~6 cords/yr. in the old Fisher & ~4-5 cords/yr. now with more run-time since retirement.

Our situation was a bit different as one of the main justifications for updating was the replacement cost of a good 8" Chimney vs. a 6" Chimney -- saving us enough money to pay for over 1/2 the new stove. Plus, we no longer run a "smoke dragon" & have a nice, safe view of the fire. (The terrible old 3 pc. hollow metal chimney was nothing but a creosote trap/maker & we put up with it for over 30 yrs., cleaning it every month or two for draft & safety.)

No regrets for our updated stove. The only thing I (still) hate, is having to, by OR law, scrap out a perfectly good used stove! It would have made a perfectly good shop stove, that 'ole bicentennial Fisher.