Older stove in house purchase

[EffInOH]

Put an offer on a nice 1967 ranch in a great location. Needs lots of updates, most of which I can do myself.

I know nothing about wood stoves and assumed (!) that any issue it might have would be a fairly inexpensive fix (less than 1k). Our house in NC has a wood burning fireplace, we put about 800$ worth of work into it and it's in great shape. So when we put an offer on the house and were told there were no issues with the fireplace, we didn't expect what we found.

Our chimney sweep went in for a cleaning and inspection. Found everything is wrong and unsafe to operate. Copy-pasted from the report :

Sweep and Level 1 inspection

Found firebox of wood burning stove to be rusted.

Cracks in wood stove on both sides of damper.

Damper handle is not functional.

Clearance from stove to wood mantel should be minimum 20".

Exterior cap missing.

Top of chimney has incorrect cap size.

Fireplace not up to code to use at this time.

Wood stove and venting system must be replaced.

(And he goes on to quote us 12k for the complete removal of the stone veneer and current set-up plus a new stove, new veneer, new mantle and new chimney. OUCH.)

Now they hire a guy who supposedly specializes in these stoves and he tells us he can take it out, reweld it, fix the damper and put a cap on it for 750$. Of course that's all the sellers are willing to do.

How does that work as far as code goes? Is that an option? What are the chances of my kids and my husband burning to a crisp with this thing burning wood in the house? Would my insurance deny a claim?

Any input is appreciated.

 

[begreen]

I'd listen to the sweep's report, it's almost guaranteed more problems will be found. But there may be other less expensive options. For sure replace the insert, don't bother repairing it. Insist that the work be done by a certified (CSIA or NFI) sweep or installer. The fixes need to be safe.

Is this is full masonry fireplace? Does the chimney start out as masonry and transition to metal chimney in the attic? If yes, an EPA replacement insert will be in the neighborhood of $3-5000 + a stainless liner installation so maybe about $5-7K total?

 

[EffInOH]

It's my understanding that it is not a masonry chimney but rather just the stove and pipe behind a stone veneer. I'll give a call to the sweep to make sure as I didn't climb in there myself.

But just to confirm -- getting this 30+ year-old rusty stove taken out, cracks welded and reinstalled -- that's a bad idea financially or from a safety standpoint? Is it a code violation since it's already in the house?

 

[bholler]

If it is just a stove slid into a framed opening with wood trim you have some very serious and dangerous clearance issues. I cant say much from just those pics but i can tell you thee are some very scary problems with that setup.

Is it a code violation since it's already in the house?

Yes it is a code violation. But there is generally nothing other than possibly your insurance company that says you cant use it. That being said it doesnt sound like an even remotely safe setup and I would strongly recommend not using it.

I do agree with bg that there are probably much cheaper options to get a safe setup though

 

[EffInOH]

If it is just a stove slid into a framed opening with wood trim you have some very serious and dangerous clearance issues. I cant say much from just those pics but i can tell you thee are some very scary problems with that setup.


Yes it is a code violation. But there is generally nothing other than possibly your insurance company that says you cant use it. That being said it doesnt sound like an even remotely safe setup and I would strongly recommend not using it.

I do agree with bg that there are probably much cheaper options to get a safe setup though

I just got off the phone with the guy who said he could weld it and put it back. It is indeed a stove with a pipe up in the attic, not a masonry fireplace. However he didn't go to the attic to see if there were issues there.

When you say clearance issues, do you mean strictly the wood trim or the stove pipe as well?

Sellers are saying just rip the trim out and fix the cracks, ta-da, no more problem.

 

[bholler]

When you say clearance issues, do you mean strictly the wood trim or the stove pipe as well?

That is all I can see from the pics but I have to question what that wall is made of what the floor is that it is sitting on ect. Without seeing the whole thing i cant give you much input but from what we can see the original installer obviously had no regard for required clearances which makes me question the whole setup. There is also a chance that your unit is actually a zeroclearance unit and if the stove is fixed it will be fine but we need allot more info to make more of a determination

 

[bholler]

When you say clearance issues, do you mean strictly the wood trim or the stove pipe as well?

Do you know the make and model of the stove?

 

[EffInOH]

Do you know the make and model of the stove?

It's a Buckmate ZC-3-01.

Link to instruction manual : http://www.manualslib.com/manual/826023/Buckmaster-26000-B.html#product-ZC-3-01

 

[bholler]

ok well that is a different story. I would have it inspected by another sweep. There may be some issues But it may not be as bad as the first sweep says

 

[begreen]

Catching up here. So this is an early Buck zero clearance fireplace. Getting the cracks welded is no guarantee that they won't fail again. I'd consider the present setup as a liability and would not invest deeply in it unless you are only planning on using it occasionally on holidays and during power outages. Otherwise, if full time heating is the goal, a full replacement with a modern unit and chimney is what I'd plan for. Wondering if this could be done from the rear, exterior so that the interior stone veneer stays intact?

 

[EffInOH]

Catching up here. So this is an early Buck zero clearance fireplace. Getting the cracks welded is no guarantee that they won't fail again. I'd consider the present setup as a liability and would not invest deeply in it unless you are only planning on using it occasionally on holidays and during power outages. Otherwise, if full time heating is the goal, a full replacement with a modern unit and chimney is what I'd plan for. Wondering if this could be done from the rear, exterior so that the interior stone veneer stays intact?

Doubtful, the exterior is brick. Either you're messing with the stone veneer inside or the brick veneer outside.

The house has a nice modern gas furnace so we wouldn't rely on the stove for full-time heating. However, I'm concerned with my wallet as we went into the offer with the disclosures stating no issues with the fireplace. I think if we're pouring nearly a grand just to patch up the old stove and install a safe mantle, we're setting ourselves up for future issues with the next buyers when we try to sell the place.

Can it be operated safely if welded? How many tries do you have at patching the stuff before you call it done? Should we be concerned about other areas of safety if whoever installed thought this mantle was a wise idea?

The chimney cap has been off for some time, the damper left open, and the stove has been exposed to the elements since, so it's rusted as well. Should we be concerned about the pipe being rusted?

I have a feeling I'm paying to inherit someone else's problem.

 

[begreen]

I have a feeling I'm paying to inherit someone else's problem.

Reasonable assessment. No idea the extent of the rust damage without actually seeing it on site. The chimney should be stainless steel inside and less prone to rusting.

 

[Wood Wules]

That's one ugly stove. I would make a bird feeder out of it. Replace it with one that has a nice window like begreens and vamp the rest. I would guess the chance of your husband and children being burned to a crisp are no more than 20 per cent. I don't think your homeowners insurance would cover them.

 

[begreen]

It would take a little planning, but one option might be to put a rear-vented stove on the hearth, remove the damper and install a 6" stainless liner. That would provide decent, safe heat at a lower cost. The hearth at floor level probably would need extending, but that's doable. This option would depend on whether there is sufficient height at the door opening for the vent pipe to clear. Mantel clearances would also need to be taken into account.

 

[EffInOH]

Thank you for your advice everyone. It's been very helpful in my husband and I's decision-making in regards to the house.

 

[EffInOH]

It would take a little planning, but one option might be to put a rear-vented stove on the hearth, remove the damper and install a 6" stainless liner. That would provide decent, safe heat at a lower cost. The hearth at floor level probably would need extending, but that's doable.

My personal preference would be to rip out the old stove and replace with it a direct vent gas fireplace. We don't have easy access to firewood, in contrast to NC where our house backed up to miles of forest. The cost being similar (I was quoted around 4,500 for both a new wood stove and a new gas insert) I think I'd go with the convenience of gas. With young children in the house, it's also easier to manage.

There's a nice spot outside for a firepit in which we can make smores and teach the kids how to build a proper fire.

 

[begreen]

It will still be a costly install, but if there's natural gas that makes sense.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

THose old stoves waste too much wood. If i had to go back to smoke dragons id quit wood burning as a source of heat. IMHO

 

[Bad LP]

My old fire chief who was also the building inspector wouldn't allow zero clearance units.

Not knowing the layout of the house personally I'd rip it out and install a free standing woodstove with double or triple wall pipe thru the roof.