Opening the Ash Tray Door to Get a Fire Really Going

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I have a Jotul Castine that I like a lot. Recently, my wife cleaned out the ash and thought she'd closed the ash compartment door. But it wasn't fully closed and the fire box resembled a roaring furnace until I shut the door completely. Is there any harm or downside to opening this door for 5 or 10 minutes to help get a fire going really well?

Thank you.

 

[glacialhills]

I don't think a few minutes to get the fire going will hurt but if you forget to close it or leave it open for longer periods, well have you ever seen a blacksmiths forge? You know, the kind they use to make horse shoes and melt and shape iron implements? kinda the same effect. Way to much O2 getting injected into your firebox. It will get hot enough in your stove to melt the grates and warp the door and crack your fire brick. in other words VERY BAD.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

You must realize, and probably do not, that it can be extremely dangerous to leave the ash door open. For most folks, it is easy to get the mind onto something else and forget the door....sometimes until it is too late. Fortunately you turned out okay but it would be best if you took some time to really check that stove over for any warpage, cracks, etc.

That being said, I have done this very thing many times. However, we always had (we don't have that type of stove any more) a rule which says if that is done, then someone must stay by the stove until it is closed. It is just too easy for it to get out of control.

 

[vermont jotul user]

I'm here to tell you, when your wife leaves the ash door open and the flue temp goes up to over 1100 degrees, things do start to warp and crack. That being said, does anyone know of a source for firebox parts for Jotul? We have a 3TDIC-2AP.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Ok. Looks like we don't leave the ash door open for longer than five minutes at a time. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

Just leave the main door ajar on it's latch until the fire gets started and is burning well. Rapidly increasing the temp via the ashpan door stresses the metal. If the wood is not dry, you also risk a horrendous puffback when you close the ash pan door. If you're having problems starting the fire, use smaller, dry kindling pieces and try some SuperCedars. We never had a fire starting problem with the Castine with good kindling and about 1/4 of a SuperCedar. Put the bottom two pieces of 1-2" kindling oriented N/S with about 8" between them. That will allow air to get under the fire. Then add a few newspaper balls and the SuperCedar on top. Put a few more kindling sticks crisscross over this and ignite the paper.

 

[gpcollen1]

Agreed BG on two fronts...

1 - If you have decent draft, that Castine should start back up pretty well with the door ajar. I had a party a few weeks back so I let the stoves burn down during the day so i would not cook folks out of the house. Later that night I went to get the stove back up with only a few coals left. My buddy doubted the Castine would fire back up. Some wood and a door open a smidge and it took a while but it went nonetheless. As long is it is still drafting, it will go...

2 - The potential for puffback is a reality when using that ash door. I usually empty ash in the am before putting wood on but occasionally I forget or need to do it 'now' and go right ahead. The other day with a decent coal bed I added a load of wood and then realized that if I waited to do ash til tomorrow that it may be over full. So I open the ash door, take the pan out and close it back up. Empty the ash out and go to put the pan back in - but there is some ash in the box. So I scoop a few shovels of ash and put them in the pan and then slide the pan in. As I am closing the door the stove is beginning to roar a bit - but i did not close the door all the way and it kind of popped back open quickly - a big ball of flame shoots out - luckily only at my hands with the welders gloves on and not near my face. I could have been in a different position and had my face closer for sure.

It was then I realized that the front door should be cracked when opening the ash door and that I need to be even more careful - and will not start the fire by opening the ash door.

 

[dvellone]

I use the ash pan door in combination with the loading door on my castine and can regulate the draft with great control which helps to get the fire off to a good start (I wouldn't use the ash door with the main door closed). I'd otherwise have to wait too long with the door alone cracked or split an inordinate amount of kindling. A little common sense doesn't hurt. The stove manufacturer certainly isn't going to tell you that this is a good practice because sure enough someone will leave the ash door open, forget about it, and then cry for a warranty repair.

 

[dvellone]

Forgot to say, I never walk away for anything without first closing the ash door - just don't posses that kind of memory.

 

[Birch Boy]

Got a house on another farm I picked up 5 years ago, it has a nice hearth with an airtight Napoleon fireplace. I rarely fire the thing up myself as the house also has an OWB for heat and I don't spend a whole lot of time there except for chores. Story is last fall had some friends staying in the place for whitetail season. They had a fire going in the Napoleon all week. One evening my wife and I went over for a smash and dinner. When I saw the inferno in the fireplace I knew something was up. The guys had a block keeping the ash door lever open to get added draft to the fire! Ends up they had been doing this all week for long periods of time. I freaked out but on inspection could see no damage to the stove or flue. The only ill affect that I could find was the normally clear glass was dirty.
The only way I can figure they did not ruin the stove or worse burn the place down was the fantastic margin of over engineering involved with these stoves. If anyone had told me this stove could survive that type of sustained blast furnace fire I would have called BS. I am not claiming the stove is indestructible but it did survive unscathed from this torture. In my opinion coaxing a new fire along with a little extra draft from the ash door should not be a problem as long as you use common sense and don't mind dirty glass.

 

[pmac]

I have this same stove and on occasion have used the ash pan door to get the stove going again; usually after a long time after the last reload, such as first thing in the morning.

That being said, you mention leaving it open 5-10 minutes. That seems like an awfully long time. Just yesterday - not paying attention - I had left it open for no more than 5 minutes and the stove went from about 300 to 600F... before it occurred to me that I had a mighty fine fire going :roll:

Careful, too, of a puffback as someone else mentioned. I've had this happen a couple times. A little scary when it happens.

When cleaning out the ash pan while the stove is going, I've gotten in the habit of taking the ash pan out and closing the ash pan door while I empty the pan.

 

[begreen]

What one does with their own stove is their business. No problem there. What one recommends via the forum as standard operating procedure, contrary to safety and manufacturer's warnings, is quite another. Unless one has poor draft, it doesn't take a lot of kindling or time to get a robust fire going with the door ajar. Having good dry kindling really helps. We mostly use cabinetry and flooring scraps. They're free, very dry and take off in a heartbeat.

Good advice pmac. If the stove was hot, I waited and cleaned the ash pan when it was strictly at the coals stage, being sure to close the ashpan door when emptying the ashpan.

 

[karri0n]

Guilty.

I do sometimes use the ash pan door to get the fire going, but only when I have less than desirable wood that is giving me lots of trouble to get going. I only ever use this as a last resort, and it is generally much safer to just open the loading doors 1-2 inches.

 

[dvellone]

What one does with their own stove is their business. No problem there. What one recommends via the forum as standard operating procedure, contrary to safety and manufacturer's warnings, is quite another. Unless one has poor draft, it doesn't take a lot of kindling or time to get a robust fire going with the door ajar. Having good dry kindling really helps. We mostly use cabinetry and flooring scraps. They're free, very dry and take off in a heartbeat.

Good advice pmac. If the stove was hot, I cleaned the ash pan when it was strictly at the coals stage, closing the ashpan door when emptying the ashpan.

BeGreen, You're undeniably right that safety is of the up most importance when dealing with any wood stove. Though, doesn't jotul recommend leaving the loading door open a crack when first getting the fire going if needed? Although you wouldn't get the same forge-like effect as when the ash door is open, forgetting that the loading door is ajar could nevertheless lead to a dangerous situation. Unfortunately, in toady's litigious (and somewhat less than self-reliant) climate we need to be protected from our own inability to exercise a little common sense. The day someone files suit against jotul because their house burned down after they loaded their stove to the gills, left the door open a bit, and left for work is the same day we'll all be debating whether or not we should leave the door open to get the fire started because jotul now recommends against it.

I'm not an expert nor a representative of jotul, and I don't recommend that anybody operate their stove in any manner contrary to jotul's guidelines. I'm just a woodstove user sharing my personal experience.

 

[begreen]

I think almost every Castine owner has tried this at one point or another, me too. It was from my mis-adventures and observations that I became convinced it was a bad idea. If a newbie starts a fire with too big splits, and it just smolders filling the stove with smoke, there can be a rude surprise when dumping a lot of air suddenly under the fire. I'd hate to have a new owner read that it's ok and instruct his mate that this is the way to start the stove, then go off to work and leave her/him to discover the potential negatives.

The advantage of using the door is that it doesn't stress out the metal grate and surrounding area. Also, the door can remain on the catch, yet still be open slightly. It will start the fire slower, but more safely.

Here's a link to some of the letters that came into Tom about back-puffing. Note curiously enough, most are from Castine owners.
(broken link removed to http://chimneysweeponline.com/howhuff.htm)