Opinions on solar panel install

[dave11]

I've read some posts here about solar, but I'll admit it's all new to me. I have to replace the roof on an old stable on my property, and in looking into the modern roofing options, solar shingles, and solar panels, came up. I'm trying to decide if either make sense by any leap of the imagination.

I'm in western PA. The stable is older but very solid, just needs a new roof. One roof side faces due south at a 6:12 slope, and is 345 SF. A few distant trees on each horizon would block only the very earliest and very latest sunlight.

Just reviewing solar panels for sale online, I could cover about 80% of the roof area and provide about 3 KW. Electricity here is moderately high for this state, about 12.3 cents per KWh.

I realize it would likely take 20 years or more to pay it back, unless the cost of electricity should go up, which it might.

So is solar power still beyond the realm of financial sense?

Any opinions appreciated.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

dont forget the tax credit and local rebates if there available. Our local rebate structure pays for about half, and the ROI is about 10 years.

 

[mbcijim]

If you are seriously considering it look into the sunshine grant, I believe it is administered by DEP, and if not then DCED. This is Pennsylvania Specific.

You are probably looking at $8/Watt Installed, or $24,000.
Fed Grant pays for $7,200
Sunshine Grant might pay another $5,000 - $8,000 but is taxable federally.
So your upfront cost will be around $13,000 - $15,000.
It should generate 4000KW or so a year, or about $500 worth of electricity.

So is it worth it to you to invest $15,000 for a $500 return? If you can sell your REC's, you could potentially get another $800-$1,600/year income. That's a question for your installer. I have no idea if the local residential installers are trying to do that or not in Pennsylvania.

REC's are Renewable Energy Credit. Google it. It's basically a subsidy from your utility.

 

[dave11]

If you are seriously considering it look into the sunshine grant, I believe it is administered by DEP, and if not then DCED. This is Pennsylvania Specific.

You are probably looking at $8/Watt Installed, or $24,000.
Fed Grant pays for $7,200
Sunshine Grant might pay another $5,000 - $8,000 but is taxable federally.
So your upfront cost will be around $13,000 - $15,000.
It should generate 4000KW or so a year, or about $500 worth of electricity.

So is it worth it to you to invest $15,000 for a $500 return? If you can sell your REC's, you could potentially get another $800-$1,600/year income. That's a question for your installer. I have no idea if the local residential installers are trying to do that or not in Pennsylvania.

REC's are Renewable Energy Credit. Google it. It's basically a subsidy from your utility.

Thanks. That's the condensed version I was hoping to find. It seems like a big gamble, because if the cost of electricity doesn't rise faster than inflation, or if the price of the REC's should drop, the break-even point could be far, far away. The loss of return on the initial $15,000 investment dampens the numbers further.

 

[PJF1313]

If you are seriously considering it look into the sunshine grant, I believe it is administered by DEP, and if not then DCED. This is Pennsylvania Specific.

You are probably looking at $8/Watt Installed, or $24,000.
Fed Grant pays for $7,200
Sunshine Grant might pay another $5,000 - $8,000 but is taxable federally.
So your upfront cost will be around $13,000 - $15,000.
It should generate 4000KW or so a year, or about $500 worth of electricity.

So is it worth it to you to invest $15,000 for a $500 return? If you can sell your REC's, you could potentially get another $800-$1,600/year income. That's a question for your installer. I have no idea if the local residential installers are trying to do that or not in Pennsylvania.

REC's are Renewable Energy Credit. Google it. It's basically a subsidy from your utility.

Thanks. That's the condensed version I was hoping to find. It seems like a big gamble, because if the cost of electricity doesn't rise faster than inflation, or if the price of the REC's should drop, the break-even point could be far, far away. The loss of return on the initial $15,000 investment dampens the numbers further.

Another interesting question is : How long do you plan on living there?
Less than 10 years? No, I wouldn't - even thought it MIGHT add resale value to your home, it wouldn't pay for itself.
Over 15 years? YES - you'll repay the initial cost (purchase price, install, etc.) then start really start seeing the benefits.

Between the two is a toss-up. No mater what, you should be happy that YOU made a difference in the global aspect. I
don't know how your utility "makes" electric, but unless it's strictly hydro, solar, or wind, they, or whom ever they purchase
it from, MOST likely burn dinosaurs to make it.

Just my .002 (inflation adjusted)

 

[dave11]

Another interesting question is : How long do you plan on living there?
Less than 10 years? No, I wouldn't - even thought it MIGHT add resale value to your home, it wouldn't pay for itself.
Over 15 years? YES - you'll repay the initial cost (purchase price, install, etc.) then start really start seeing the benefits.

Between the two is a toss-up. No mater what, you should be happy that YOU made a difference in the global aspect. I
don't know how your utility "makes" electric, but unless it's strictly hydro, solar, or wind, they, or whom ever they purchase
it from, MOST likely burn dinosaurs to make it.

Just my .002 (inflation adjusted)

Well, to be frank, the only way I foresee myself leaving this house is in a coffin. And if i'm lucky, that will be no less than thirty years from now.

But no matter what the numbers say, there are a lot of variables beyond anyone's control. It just doesn't make sense from a practical/financial point of view. I wish it did. It'd be very cool to make it work.

 

[DBoon]

Not every decision has to make financial sense, unless your financial situation dictates that. And if you were considering a 3kW solar grid, chances are you have some spare change in your pocket.

So don't apply the most stringent financial test - if it makes you feel good to do it, and you like the "cool" factor, then go ahead and do it. You won't lose money, it will just make less money than other "investments". And if energy prices really go through the roof, you might make more.

 

[dave11]

Not every decision has to make financial sense, unless your financial situation dictates that. And if you were considering a 3kW solar grid, chances are you have some spare change in your pocket.

So don't apply the most stringent financial test - if it makes you feel good to do it, and you like the "cool" factor, then go ahead and do it. You won't lose money, it will just make less money than other "investments". And if energy prices really go through the roof, you might make more.

I understand your point of view. But while it's true I have the "spare change" to do this, I wouldn't have spare change very long if I invested money in ventures with such an uncertain return on investment. Clearly there are folks here whose situation warranted them taking the plunge, but I'm not sure it's right for me.

I dunno. I'll think about it some more.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I understand your dilemma Dave. I was going to do a 10kw system. But, then it took almost a year to get the state agency approval and in the meantime they changed the energy loan rules. This caused my friendly banker to exit the energy loan game. That led the cost of capital to go way up which has me reevaluating. The thing that keeps me thinking about it is that it is a great hedge instrument if you are going to be in the house for a long time. My guess is that the price of electricity will never go down and that I will always be a consumer of it. Similar thoughts about btus and produce have us burning wood and growing fruits and vegetables.

 

[dougstove]

Solar domestic hotwater, in my area, is the only active solar capture technology that currently makes unambiguous sense.
The return is best if you have significant year round hot water use, and if you are willing to time laundry and showers to accomodate the sun (to an extent).

 

[SolarAndWood]

The problem I have with commercially available solar dhw is that for the same price I can have a small wood boiler.

 

[Wet1]

I would agree with the above. PV is still too expensive for it to have a reasonable ROI, especially for us since we don't use a lot of electricity. At some point in the not to distant future, I expect to see reasonably prices solar panels and even better, solar shingles, but this is many years away. Until this happens, I can't see investing in today's PV systems unless the state and federal govs make it significantly more attractive.

I also agree with S&W, commercial solar dhw is a little more reasonable, but it's still a big pill to swallow to buy a system. However, DIY solar dhw makes a lot of sense if you're handy and have the time to do it... I just wish I had the time to do it!

 

[btuser]

If you off the grid then it makes a ton of sense. If you can do the work yourself and just pay for parts maybe that will change your margins. Not my idea of fun, and I'm sure those panels are heavier than a bundle of shingles. I guess you could look at it as a hedge against Armagedon. If it gave you a reasonable amount of your needed power then you could say you've hedged your electric costs for 20 years. Scratch it off the list. Good luck trying to do it when things really go to pot.

The frosted side of me wants to spend money on the "right thing to do", but the whole wheat side of me says "don't let the hippies get your money!"