Ordered Woodstock Fv, need to reduce hearth height: ideas?

[HarvestMan]

Today I spoke with Woodstock and decided to put a deposit on an Fv. Now comes the part I have been dreading. I need to modify my existing hearth as my wall thimble is 20 7/8 center line but Fv requires 22.75. Here is a picture of my current hearth:

Removing the brick would allow me to get the centerline I need. However I proceed, I will need to install 1 inch of durock plus final noncombustible flooring to get the .8 R value I would like.

Here are the options that I have considered.
1) Remove all tile and brick flooring to subfloor and create new floor.
2) Remove only rectangular section to support new stove footprint. Perhaps trying to reclaim the brick face as the flooring of the lowered rectangular section (don't even know if this is possible).
3) Total rebuild of wall and hearth floor so materials match.

If you were in my shoes, how would you proceed?

Thanks.

p.s. I'm going to have someone check about moving the thimble up, but this doesn't seem likely.

 

[Oldman47]

Have you explored the possibility of tapping into the chimney higher up? My first impression is that removing a few bricks from that back wall and moving the connection higher up would be far easier than trying to rebuild the whole hearth area from scratch. None of us know what you will find behind that back wall so I may be way off base here.

 

[HarvestMan]

Have you explored the possibility of tapping into the chimney higher up? My first impression is that removing a few bricks from that back wall and moving the connection higher up would be far easier than trying to rebuild the whole hearth area from scratch. None of us know what you will find behind that back wall so I may be way off base here.

I am going to check, but it is a corner install and behind the wall is a T and from the T is a 30 degree then a straight shot of pipe to another 30 degree to get it into the center of the chase then up the chase. Doesn't seem likely, but I still know the guy who do the original install and will talk to him to see what he thinks. Access behind the wall is available by scuttle from basement. Who knows, perhaps I'll get lucky, but right now trying to get a plan in place for lowering the hearth.

 

[Bobbin]

Nothing to offer except I've admired the color combination of the Hearthstone stove you presently own. Very striking. May you enjoy your Fireview as much as we do ours; great product and deserving of an attractive (and safe!) installation.

 

[rideau]

Does the white tiled area meet the R value required for the Fireview?

How high is the brick?

Looks like you need to pick up about 2 inches. .

The pre-made tiled hearthpads that Woodstock sells meet the R requirement and are 1 1/4 inch high. You can custom order any size.

Could you remove the brick and pick up enough height by putting in one of Woodstock's 1 1/4 inch pads? That might be easiest. There are quite a few color choices, and I am sure you could get one that would compliment the FIreview color you choose as well as the hearth arrangement.

I put in their blue tile hearthpad 11 years ago. It has taken a lot of punishment and looks like new...and is very handsome with the light gray FIreview or PH.

 

[HarvestMan]

The pre-made tiled hearthpads that Woodstock sells meet the R requirement and are 1 1/4 inch high. You can custom order any size.

Spoke with Woodstock yesterday about hearth pads and they appear to be phasing them out; I was told they are only selling out existing stock. I am not aware of any custom orders for these; perhaps years ago this was an option.

The Fv requires .59 R value. Tile is over 1/2 inch wonder board so not likely .59. However, not sure of front clearances as Fv has only side door. Brick is 3.5" on 1/2 inch wonder board - this would be sufficient for Fv if thimble was high enough.
I could just take out a rectangular area where the new stove will go and build that up to get the proper R value, but I just don't think it will look very good. I am afraid that any solution that does not involve removing the tile and brick flooring and creating a completely new one material floor will look like a hack job.

Just finished climbing up to look through the basement scuttle to see what might be done with the pipe. Looks rather hopeless there unless we rebuild the whole thing. Moving the thimble up would require moving up the support bracket, this would throw off the angles requiring movement of support brackets, straps, firestop, etc. Basically a cascading effect from bottom of chimney up to the top.

I'm prepared to take my medicine and tear out the tile and brick down to subfloor.

Just need to decide which material best complements the existing brick wall and also the transition from flooring to wall as the lowered hearth will expose some of the bottom course that was never intended to be exposed for view.

 

[HarvestMan]

If I take out everything to subfloor and install 1/2 durock next gen then tile, that would get me an R value of 0.41. Additionally, it would give me a center line maximum of 24.5 inches. These numbers are the R value and minimum center line for the IS . This would give me an upgrade path to the IS and possibly the new Franklin stove in the future. It would however, not be sufficient R value for the Fv. Additionally, my centerline would now be 1.75 inches high for the Fv. I could easily reach the R value with an HY-C type 2 pad for the Fv, but I would require some kind of blocks, or pads to put under the Fv legs.

I'm kind of leaning towards this solution as it gives me a bit more flexibility going forward.

Any thoughts on this? Any idea on what would be a good material to get the additional height for the legs of an Fv install?

 

[bholler]

This is why i say it is never a good idea to come straight out the back into the thimble it really makes things difficult for future applications. I think moving the thimbel up would be the easiest and least disruptive

 

[HarvestMan]

This is why i say it is never a good idea to come straight out the back into the thimble it really makes things difficult for future applications. I think moving the thimbel up would be the easiest and least disruptive

Compromise is the shortest path to peace. I chose peace 25 years ago when my wife did not like seeing a stove pipe; we did the rear flue install. I still prefer peace.

In theory, I agree with you. In practice, I choose peace.

 

[pdxdave]

Have you tried asked Woodstock if they can equip the stove with slightly shorter legs? I'd try to find a solution that doesn't involve tearing up that nice looking hearth.

 

[bholler]

Compromise is the shortest path to peace. I chose peace 25 years ago when my wife did not like seeing a stove pipe; we did the rear flue install. I still prefer peace.
In theory, I agree with you. In practice, I choose peace.

I totally understand but when i am installing a stove i push hard against that type of install. But sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

 

[HarvestMan]

Have you tried asked Woodstock if they can equip the stove with slightly shorter legs? I'd try to find a solution that doesn't involve tearing up that nice looking hearth.

Yep, there are none shorter and they can't modify any for me as it would "void the listing". That is the terminology they used in their e-mail response.

I still have a chimney guy coming to see about moving the stack up, so there is still some hope; but it seems like a big job to me in very tight spaces. I'll report back when I find out. For now, I am just trying to plan in the event the hearth mod is the path we end up taking.

 

[rideau]

I would consider framing a boxed area to run under the entire stove, having all edges at the joint with full tiles, and tiling the box. Keep extra tiles, so if you remove the box in the future for a different stove (doubt you will if you get a FIreview), you can simply tile the area where the box was. Elevating the Fireview a few inches will make it easier to load, and will slightly reduce your front hearth requirement (height counts, so if 1.75 inches higher, reduces pad requirement by as much). Personally, having run a Fireview, I would NOT make the pad shorter, but would love having those extra inches. The floor got hotter than I liked in front of the pad. I always kept a sheepskin rug over my hardwood floor there.

 

[HarvestMan]

Here is an Update on my original post.

The original contractor whom installed my SS chimney verified that moving the whole chimney up would be difficult and more expensive than tearing out the old hearth floor and re-installing a new one to account for the needed thimble height.

Today, I was able to locate an exact match of our brick in "thin-brick". This is essentially the brick face and is 1/2 inch thick - in particular, ours is glen-gery Rosewood:


The contractor also gave me a "package" quote i.e. no prices itemized for the following:

• removal of my old stove
• tear out of old hearth floor to sub floor and dispose of all debris
• install of new hearth floor (durock, thin-brick and tile - essentially like old hearth but shorter and with correct R values)
• the pickup of my new stove (from freight terminal - 15 miles away)
• install of my new stove
• sweep chimney

This is a labor only deal and I would need to buy materials. His price was $700. Materials will run approximately $250-$300.
The more I think about this deal, the more I like it. Here are some additional criteria:

• chimney sweep goes for $150 - $195 in this area
• don't own a truck or trailer or equipment to move a 500 lb stove
• never done masonry or tile (I am the anti-handyman)
• don't have any young strong friends that could help (only old, warn out guys like myself)
• my birthday is coming up and this seems like a good present for myself

I will post pictures of the process as it unfolds.

I'm now going to focus on increasing my css count.

 

[bholler]

That price sounds great just get it in writing and make sure there is something spelling out the procedure for any overages. I only say that because the price seems pretty low i would be nervous that the final price would be higher

 

[TheRambler]

If your wanting to hire someone to do the work then that is a great price. Just to hire movers alone to move in the new stove and take the old one out wpuld run around 2-300.(most i know of cost around 100/hr with a 3hr minimum)

 

[HarvestMan]

If your wanting to hire someone to do the work then that is a great price. Just to hire movers alone to move in the new stove and take the old one out wpuld run around 2-300.(most i know of cost around 100/hr with a 3hr minimum)

When I decided I wanted the WS Fv, I dreaded the whole hearth rebuild and dealing with all the details of making it happen. Really did not have any idea of what things should cost. Looks like I got pretty lucky.

I am thrilled to have found the materials I need and a contractor who can do it all and at a very good price.

Calling WS tomorrow to finalize the stove order and get an estimated delivery time frame.

 

[bholler]

I am thrilled to have found the materials I need and a contractor who can do it all and at a very good price.

Did you check his references? I only ask because that sounds pretty cheap. A rough estimate of what i would charge would be $1100 to $1300. Our cleaning prices are about the same and standard stove delivery and install is about $300. Then about 2 days for the hearth. If you trust them go for it it is a good deal for sure

 

[mellow]

Watch the installer like a hawk, I know people do not like confrontations but if you are subbing this out then it its your house and you need to make sure it is done right. Even with references I would still setup a webcam so I could keep an eye on progress without bugging him, unless you find him shortcutting the job on the hearth. Just my 2 cents.

 

[HarvestMan]

Just wanted to share a few pictures of how this project turned out. It all took longer than expected, but the results (and new stove) were worth the wait.

 

[begreen]

That finished out beautifully. It looks great.

 

[rideau]

Very nice. You did a great job designing and executing.