Ordering FPX-33 Elite - Install questions

[TresK3]

The plan is to head out tomorrow and order the Fireplace Xtrordinair FPX-33 Elite. I am going to have them do the install as I can better spend my time cutting and splitting. The shop we're going to says they do flex liner for the first 4' or so, then smooth wall on up (this is good, right?). I'm not sure what else to ask about, but here are my questions:

1) The chimney is in the middle of the house. Do we need an insulated liner? If so, what do I look for/ask about?

2) There was a discussion about block-off plates, that I didn't fully follow. What I understood is that block-off plates are a good idea (yes?) but what I don't fully understand is what is a block-off plate? Again, what do I look for/ask about?

3) The manual says that I can get either direct connect or positive flue. Positive flue is the one with the liner all the way to to top, yes? (and that is what I want, isn't it?). Do I want to insist on the block off plate with this type of connection?

4) Anything else I should ask about or request, regards the installation?

Thanks,
Tres

 

[Gooserider]

The plan is to head out tomorrow and order the Fireplace Xtrordinair FPX-33 Elite. I am going to have them do the install as I can better spend my time cutting and splitting. The shop we're going to says they do flex liner for the first 4' or so, then smooth wall on up (this is good, right?). I'm not sure what else to ask about, but here are my questions:

Sounds like a good configuration. The smooth is, at least in theory, better for draft and easier to clean, while the flex will get you past the damper and make the hookup easier.

1) The chimney is in the middle of the house. Do we need an insulated liner? If so, what do I look for/ask about?

That has been debated here many times. Technically you should have insulation to be fully code compliant, and it may help your draft, (though less so than it would with an outside chimney) but you might be able to get away without it if your chimney is in good shape. However IMHO the only really good reason not to insulate is if your existing chimney is to small or has to many offsets to reasonably get the insulation down. In short the insulation is preferable, but could be skipped if it has to.

2) There was a discussion about block-off plates, that I didn't fully follow. What I understood is that block-off plates are a good idea (yes?) but what I don't fully understand is what is a block-off plate? Again, what do I look for/ask about?

Block-off plates are an EXCELLENT idea, and should be used in almost every install. Essentially they are a metal plate, that has to be custom made and fit in each case, that closes off the space between your chimney and the outside of the liner. They prevent heat loss from the room up the chimney, and control air leakage. They need to fit as close to air tight as possible, and typically go in the damper frame area of the fireplace. It is a good idea to pack mineral wool insulation into the space above the plate to prevent conduction losses as well as the air leaks stopped w/ the blockoff plate. There is a good article in the Wiki on what they are and how to make one. Note that the installer may not be thrilled to do one, as they are a bit of a PITA to make and install, but you should insist.

3) The manual says that I can get either direct connect or positive flue. Positive flue is the one with the liner all the way to to top, yes? (and that is what I want, isn't it?). Do I want to insist on the block off plate with this
type of connection?

You absolutely want the liner to the top of the chimney. It is safer and much easier to clean among other virtues, and it can also be much better drafting. While the blockoff plate is slightly less vital than it is with a direct connect, you still should have one.

4) Anything else I should ask about or request, regards the installation?

Thanks,
Tres

You need to make sure the chimney is thoroughly cleaned before doing the install, along with a good inspection to make sure there aren't any surprises, watch your clearances, and all the other usual things, but nothing major comes to mind offhand, it sounds like you are working on the right track.

Gooserider

 

[R&D Guy]

I agree with Gooserider. If it were going in my house I'd be sure to have the chimney fully lined all the way to the termination cap, not just to the block off plate. It will be a LOT easier to clean the pipe each year since you won't have to pull the unit and it will draft a lot better too.

 

[TresK3]

Back from the stove store...

We are definitely getting a full-length, insulated liner. I mentioned a block-off plate and they said they would install one at the top of the chimney, but they don't typically do one at the bottom, if you get the liner.

Two issues still under discussion:
1) The brochure says that you can have the blower hard wired, to avoid having that (unsightly) cord running across your hearth. We have an electrical outlet right next to the hearth, where I could tap into to get power. Is it a good, bad or indifferent idea to run the electric into the fireplace so we can hard wire the blower? Are there safety concerns if we do this? I'm presuming I'd make a hole in the fireplace to run the wire through.

2) The brochure also says that we can have the surround custom cut to fit inside our fireplace opening. Any thoughts on this, from an aesthetic or practical stand point? We wouldn't be trimming much off the surround; it fits perfectly on the top and overlaps 2-3" on either side.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Shane]

Get the wiring kit to hard wire your blower and you'll have no issues. Pull the permit get the inspection. One recomendation is to make it so that you have access to disconnect the thing if you ever need to remove it for service. Not a likely scenario but could possibly happen.
For the surround I wouldn't worry about trimming it unless you have an uneven (mossrock, fieldstone) fireplace. Other than that the thing overlapping the fireplace shouldn't be a big deal. On top of that it makes removal of the surround for annual inspection of the flue collar connection ALOT easier.

 

[Gooserider]

Back from the stove store...

We are definitely getting a full-length, insulated liner. I mentioned a block-off plate and they said they would install one at the top of the chimney, but they don't typically do one at the bottom, if you get the liner.

Two issues still under discussion:
1) The brochure says that you can have the blower hard wired, to avoid having that (unsightly) cord running across your hearth. We have an electrical outlet right next to the hearth, where I could tap into to get power. Is it a good, bad or indifferent idea to run the electric into the fireplace so we can hard wire the blower? Are there safety concerns if we do this? I'm presuming I'd make a hole in the fireplace to run the wire through.

2) The brochure also says that we can have the surround custom cut to fit inside our fireplace opening. Any thoughts on this, from an aesthetic or practical stand point? We wouldn't be trimming much off the surround; it fits perfectly on the top and overlaps 2-3" on either side.

Thanks for your thoughts.

This is EXACTLY the point of controversy I was mentioning earlier - the code is a bit ambiguous, however you should be keeping air from ENTERING the flue space, not just exiting out the top, and this requires either a blockoff plate or sealing the face of the surround to the fireplace opening, which is not really practical in many cases.

Elk, one of our members here, who is a building inspector in his real life, says that he feels strongly enough that a block off plate is needed, that he won't pass an install in his jurisdiction that doesn't have one...

Gooserider