hey again guys. Ok so over the past week i've had an increasing problem with the orlan 60. i've gotten a lot of the problems fixed thanks to you all, but i've still been having problems with my pumps. today i had an electrician come out and put each one of my pumps (that run to the furnaces) on their own switch so i can run them constantly. they've been shutting off (or so i thought) on their own and my boiler has been overheating. i've had to pull out my controller and put some pressure on the controller to get it to click the pumps on. real big headache. so tonight i get home and fire it up. everything is working fine, but all of a sudden my pumps, although they're on, aren't getting any hot water. finally found out it's my circulator on the return on the rear of the boiler. obviously it's the only one hooked to the controller. so i took out my heavy flashlight and set it on top of the loose controller to put pressure on it to get it to kick on. once it's on, everything is golden...but it comes and goes as it pleases. is this an issue with the controller?? would there be any harm in hard wiring that rear circulator to run all the time? or is that messing with the controls? i've had an over heat in the past and read somewhere that can wreak havoc on the controller. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. ALSO, tonight i started to get a 'poof' every minute or so. i got smoke puffing out of my fan area and the chimney. it's never done that before...not sure what it is. kind of like the damper is opening and closing or like it's getting a shot of air...except the fan isn't turning on.
Orlan 60 circ pump problem or controller??
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stee6043
Minister of Fire
I didn't see this post before your other one. This certainly seems like a bad controller and not a bad pump. I'd recommend you replace the controller ASAP and not run your pumps manually. You can order the controller from New Horizon (or your local dealer) for $200. If your controller can't properly control the pumps who knows what else it's doing wrong. Sounds like a no-win. Setting a weight on the controller to make it "work" is definitely not the norm.
taxidermist
Minister of Fire
Ccan you go to the (i think) outP setting and push the ok button to run the pump?
When you say you put pressure on it is this to only launch the pump or is the display not working too?
Rob
When you say you put pressure on it is this to only launch the pump or is the display not working too?
Rob
Not sure about the settings??? Can you elaborate on what that particular setting does??
I have to pull the grey hood forward and then stretch the controller down and the circ pump kicks on. The display works fine - settings, etc. - it's just the circ pump. It's like something isn't touching within the controller. When the electrician was there yesterday, he looked at the controller and tightened everything down. Didn't see anything glaringly obvious. He did notice, however, that the back of the controller had been partially melted at some point - obviously during an overheat. Not sure if that was me or the prior owner...or both.
At this point, I feel as though once I get the controller swapped out that I should be doing pretty good. I think that's been the root of my problems all along. According to the guy at New Horizon, my two pumps heading to the furnace should be run independently of the thermostat and the boiler - so I'm happy with that fix. The only thing I'm missing that he recommended is a heat dump of some kind which I have in the works. Hopefully once the controller is in...and i get the aquastat in with my heat dump, I should have this thing licked.
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Could I wire that circ pump to its own on/off switch to where its controlled manually? Or is that messing with the control of the boiler too much by taking it away from the controller? Would it be safe to wire it independtly of the boiler in the interim until my new controller shows up?
stee6043
Minister of Fire
For a short term solution it would be better than nothing, certainly. The risk in having it that way permanantly is that you may forget about it in the "off" position someday and cause a severe overheat. And on the other hand most of us don't turn the boiler circ on until 160 +/- boiler temps so if you just flip it on "all the time" I don't think you'll get the best performance from your system. Let the boiler run that circ when you get your new controller and run the other pumps (to your loads I assume) independantly.
Ok...I might do that today. When I get the new controller, I'll hook it back up to have it run electronically. I have my circ pump set at 160 as well...so could manually flip it on when it gets warmed up from a cold start. Once the house is up to temp, rarely do i drop below 168. I have minimal overheat problems considering i have no dump or aquastat...but sometimes i have a very warm house to avoid the overheat!
ewdudley
Minister of Fire
My control is set up to run the boiler circ when I start the boiler before loading and then it shuts down when the flue temperature says the fire went out. I figure it is better to run the circ and have the whole boiler the same temperature rather than let the bottom stay cold until the top gets to 160 degF. Don't know how you'd prove one control strategy is better than the other, but I'm not seeing any corrosion or creosote in the lower chamber after a couple seasons of running the boiler circ while the boiler heats up.
Oh, and although it's more expensive, may want to look at the replacement controller available from AHONA. They're made in the U.S. by the same company that makes all the controls for coal stoves.
I'm guessing from some of your other posts that maybe the two pumps for the house loads were wired through the boilers controller? So they came on at the same time as the near boiler pump? In which case I'd bet that the controllers internal relay capacity was exceeded.
As others have said get a new controller and make sure only the near boiler pump is switched on and off by the controller.
As others have said get a new controller and make sure only the near boiler pump is switched on and off by the controller.
taxidermist
Minister of Fire
Here is all you need to know about the controller
http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/RK-2001UA-ENG12.pdf
http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/RK-2001UA-ENG12.pdf
taxidermist
Minister of Fire
Also tell us a little about your system? storage,underground pex size if any,forced air with HX or HW,pump sizes ect.
Rob
Rob
I originally thought they were which is why I had the electrician come out yesterday. I have two furnaces in my house - both have hot water coils and each have their own pump. My pumps were constantly shutting off causing overheats. I had him wire them to a switch so I could manually turn each pump on myself so they would run independent of each other and the boiler and furnaces. I started the boiler last night and found both pumping - but neither pulling any hot water. It then dawned on me that the near boiler pump was the one not turning on unless I messed with the controller. So I know it wasn't the capacity of the controller... but rather the controller itself. I hesitate to install a new controller until I get that aquastat and heat dump installed in case I have another overheat and mess up a new $200 controller. I read somewhere on here that a E3 will fry those controllers?? Not sure if that's true or not, but I've gone beyond the E3 once...and I know the previous owner did as well.
If the three pumps were wired to the controller you may have exceeded the contact capacity. If you exceed the capacity of a relay it will arc and begin to melt the contacts which might be your problem -- over time the contacts have been destroyed to the point where they no longer function.
Hard to say if that is the problem or something else is wrong with the controller. Just speculating. Good luck!
Hard to say if that is the problem or something else is wrong with the controller. Just speculating. Good luck!
taxidermist
Minister of Fire
If you dont have storage then i would take both pumps out and only use the pump on the boiler and let the boiler control it. Did you look and see if the thermo couple was fried from the overheat? I have fried one on them before in a over heat.
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
ewdudley
Minister of Fire
Just spoke with one of the guys at Automation Correct, the company that makes the Coal-Trol Digital controller found on most all coal stoves, and which now manufactures as well the Boiler Mate Solid Fuel AH-AK 010 Controller for wood boilers.
http://www.automationcorrect.com/index.htm
I believe the 'Boiler Mate' is sold exclusively by AHONA:
http://www.ahona.com/projects_newproducts.html
There's a kit that adapts the controller to replace the RK2000 physically and functionally. All the same wires connect to it. There's inputs for supply temperature and call for heat, and outputs for variable draft fan power and boiler circulator power. Plus it has a door switch input to control a draft inducer if needed.
Various manufacturers -- EKO for one -- are in the process of switching from RK to Automation Correct controllers, due of course to the miserable failure rate of the RK controllers on the one hand, and the growing reputation for robustness and reliability of the Automation Correct controllers on the other.
The current design is intended primarily as an RK2000 replacement. Models in development will incorporate more inputs and outputs for more sophisticated automation, e.g., stack temperature input for rate of combustion control and end-of-burn shutdown.
maple1
Minister of Fire
Hmmm - wonder if they could incorporate O2 sensor data to vary fan speed? An O2 sensor would be a simple add-on - a draft inducer would be too.
'Semi-Lambda'?
'Semi-Lambda'?
stee6043
Minister of Fire
Those guys could use a bit of a refresher on their website. The latest "what's new" is two years old...
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
I have the RK2001 AT2 (not lambda), it has stack temp probe for end of burn, and variable speed fan output. I've checked the capacitor that makes the older ones fail, and it has a higher voltage rating, as do the ones that are being used as replacements on the older RK's. Time will tell...... if it starts to become erratic, I'm going to look into the Automation Correct, or just use Honeywell/Johnson aquastats.
TS
TS
ewdudley
Minister of Fire
Sounds like you've done the homework. I asked specifically if the current AC controller had stack temperature input and it is my understanding it does not. It's certainly frustrating that all we have to go on is a picture on the AHONA website and second-hand accounts of functionality.
Hopefully the newer RK won't put you in a bind. With the older one I certainly felt it would be good money after bad to replace an RK with an RK, but if the newer ones are supposedly more reliable it would be harder to decide what to do.
On the wish list for my controller would be independent control of the two fans. I have a front blower and rear impeller for negative draft. I've played around with shutting the front blower off and it will still gassify but I need the blower to get the fire started. It would be nice if I could have the rear at full speed and the front at 50 % or so.
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
This is interesting Mike. You have both a positive and a negitive pressure fan? I didn't know that about the BMW. Mine is a negitive pressure (suction) only. It's only 60watts and the impeller looks to be about the size of a 40,000 btu pellet stove and is the same type of design. If I had a picture I'd post it. I generally run it at 100% but have not tried modulating it down as it's only 60watts and the motor doesn't seem to get very hot. Stays much cooler than a typical Taco circulator.
Seems like you could use a timer and turn off the pressure fan after a pre-determined time if you think it will hold a good secondary flame. I use a time to stage some loads based on aquastat contacts set 10F above pump launch temp. Ebay is a great source for industrial timers.
There are two here, I got the pair for $20 used. Look for 120V and your time range, these are 0-30 min. TEC, Omron, and Alen Bradley are all good brands to look for.
TS
Seems like you could use a timer and turn off the pressure fan after a pre-determined time if you think it will hold a good secondary flame. I use a time to stage some loads based on aquastat contacts set 10F above pump launch temp. Ebay is a great source for industrial timers.
There are two here, I got the pair for $20 used. Look for 120V and your time range, these are 0-30 min. TEC, Omron, and Alen Bradley are all good brands to look for.
TS
Yeah the biomass has a front positive pressure fan and a rear negative/suction fan. The front fan shuts off when you open the door but the rear suction fan stays on which helps keep the smoke down for reloading.
The boiler will not gassify very well with the rear fan off. But seems to gassify well if you shut the front fan down after the initial startup. Ive thought about the timers and or wiring in a speed control on the front fan. Not sure there would be a huge benifit though.
The boiler will not gassify very well with the rear fan off. But seems to gassify well if you shut the front fan down after the initial startup. Ive thought about the timers and or wiring in a speed control on the front fan. Not sure there would be a huge benifit though.
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