overfire ??? Help?

[Crabbypatty]

I have a VC 1450 encore non cat stove. it seems to be overfiring on me. i changed the glass gaskets last nte since the glass wass getting a nasty build up on low setting on the primary air intake lever. Then i changed the griddle gasket as well. right now i have a bed of ashes as high as the andirons' top and the refratory is glowing red, with the air control closed and the damper closed. i hear a low tone whistle like i have a leak somewhere else, but i cannot isolate it. i was thinking it could be the ash door, but i don't know for sure. the griddle temp is 600 right now and i got the temp down to 600 on the rear flue outlet. it was 850 i have a clean chimney and well seasoned wood, and the stove is rear flued into a fireplace that the damper has been removed from and sealed except where the stove pipe penatrates.....any thoughts ? i appreciate any suggestions or comments

 

[dstone916]

You might have already tried this, but use a match or cigarette lighter and pass it by all of the seams. If the flame gets sucked in, you'll find your leak. As an alternative you could use smoking incense.

-Don

 

[Crabbypatty]

yea, i tried it tonite...with a lighter and with a punk...no luck. i am gonna replace the ash pan gasket tommorrow...when it cools off. maybe that will help. also when i cleaned my chimney i found a 4" square gasket with a 3" or so hole in it stuffed in the fresh air connection. Been in there since new i guess. i dunno where it goes or if it belongs to the this stove or not....i got it new , but assembled on display.

 

[Crabbypatty]

Ok, i tightened the ash pan door and the front doors. did a leak check with a lighter and noticed that the connection between my stovepipe and the outlet on the stove seems to be drawing some air. is this normal? i don't have a fancy oval to round fitting and i just used a 12" long piece of 8"pipe and ovaled one end out. at this point should the seal be airtite as well? or is it just acting like a barometric damper and drawing addtional air into the flue which doesn't really matter? i apprecite any comments

 

[jbphan8]

I'm not sure if it is what is occurring with your stove or not, but I had an overfiring issue with my Hearthstone Homestead and it turned out to be an ash pan that wasn't fully slid in place. I could hear the rushing air sound as you describe and was able to track it to that. You definately want to get it solved because you are going to end up ruining your stove (or worse). Good luck.

 

[BJ64]

Ok, i tightened the ash pan door and the front doors. did a leak check with a lighter and noticed that the connection between my stovepipe and the outlet on the stove seems to be drawing some air. is this normal? i don't have a fancy oval to round fitting and i just used a 12" long piece of 8"pipe and ovaled one end out. at this point should the seal be airtite as well? or is it just acting like a barometric damper and drawing addtional air into the flue which doesn't really matter? i apprecite any comments

This is an uneducated opinion.

It is often asked if the connection between the crimped stove adapter and stove should be sealed. The usual answer is that it is not required by any code but many do seal that joint with Rutland brand cement.

Unless you have a hole big enough to poke a cigar into I think that area might be fine and not the source of your problem.

Dumb question time.

I know you described this already but for clarity, is the bottom of the stove full of dead ashes or live coals?

Here is why I ask that. If you notice, most of us have an issue with an excessive build up of live coals. My uneducated understanding is there is not enough air passing through the coal bed to finish burning the coals to ash. To me this means that the bottom seals of those stoves are not leaking air into the coal bed. If the bottom of your stove is mostly ash, I suspect there may be a seal of some sort below the ash grate that is leaking and burning up the coal bed.

If we do a search on "leaving the ash pan door open", many of those threads are associated with serious over-fires.

What does anyone think?

 

[Crabbypatty]

I seem to have a buildup of live coals, not black charcoal or ash. it has been really windy in w. MA lately and i think that has something to do with it. i can clearly hear a whistle through the stove and it changes with the wind .. literally. i can control the fire, but my heat output isn't what it used to be. i also have ......for once...... some properly dried and seasoned wood. i think i may have to get used to burning the stove with good fuel.

 

[BJ64]

I seem to have a buildup of live coals, not black charcoal or ash. it has been really windy in w. MA lately and i think that has something to do with it. i can clearly hear a whistle through the stove and it changes with the wind .. literally. i can control the fire, but my heat output isn't what it used to be. i also have ......for once...... some properly dried and seasoned wood. i think i may have to get used to burning the stove with good fuel.

You are correct about the wind. Depending on your chimney arrangement, the wind and gust can increase draft force.

Live coals sounds good in this case. To me that mean the seals below the ash grate are good and no longer suspect.

The whistle sound comes "through" the stove. I will rule out the noise coming from the homemade oval stove adapter because you would identified that already.

I assume you already know about the dollar bill door seal test. A search on "dollar bill test" will tell you all you want to know about that useful and simple trick. With that I will rule out the door seals for the moment.

I also assume you been all around the stove searching for this noise. I assume the noise is generally the same volume from all angles. What I am assuming that the noise is not coming from any perceivable direction except "through" the stove.

The gasket you found in the combustion air supply is really weird. I think if it was part of the stove it could be found in the stove's parts list and diagram. This leads to another theory and potentially useless question.

Question: Does you stove have an outside air kit?

Theory: That gasket you discovered may be part of the solution. I have no idea how it would work but I can believe that a miss placed gasket in the combustion system would cause a noise "through" the stove without any perceptible direction. I believe this because the sound would originate in the stove and the sound energy would travel the air way through the stove.

An outside air kit would help hide the source of the noise. Can we try disconnecting the outside air kit from the bottom of the stove and see if the noise is coming from up in the combustion air system?

 

[Crabbypatty]

I seem to have a buildup of live coals, not black charcoal or ash. it has been really windy in w. MA lately and i think that has something to do with it. i can clearly hear a whistle through the stove and it changes with the wind .. literally. i can control the fire, but my heat output isn't what it used to be. i also have ......for once...... some properly dried and seasoned wood. i think i may have to get used to burning the stove with good fuel.

You are correct about the wind. Depending on your chimney arrangement, the wind and gust can increase draft force.

Live coals sounds good in this case. To me that mean the seals below the ash grate are good and no longer suspect.

The whistle sound comes "through" the stove. I will rule out the noise coming from the homemade oval stove adapter because you would identified that already.

I assume you already know about the dollar bill door seal test. A search on "dollar bill test" will tell you all you want to know about that useful and simple trick. With that I will rule out the door seals for the moment.

I also assume you been all around the stove searching for this noise. I assume the noise is generally the same volume from all angles. What I am assuming that the noise is not coming from any perceivable direction except "through" the stove.

The gasket you found in the combustion air supply is really weird. I think if it was part of the stove it could be found in the stove's parts list and diagram. This leads to another theory and potentially useless question.

Question: Does you stove have an outside air kit?

Theory: That gasket you discovered may be part of the solution. I have no idea how it would work but I can believe that a miss placed gasket in the combustion system would cause a noise "through" the stove without any perceptible direction. I believe this because the sound would originate in the stove and the sound energy would travel the air way through the stove.

An outside air kit would help hide the source of the noise. Can we try disconnecting the outside air kit from the bottom of the stove and see if the noise is coming from up in the combustion air system?

I do not have an outside air kit on this stove.......the whole house acts like an outside air kit, being a little drafty around here.

"The whistle sound comes "through" the stove. I will rule out the noise coming from the homemade oval stove adapter because you would identified that already. "

i am thinking about gasketing the connection between the outlet and the pipe......i haven't ruled it out myself yet a a cause of the whistle. i think it is acting as a barometric damper, but that shouldn't hurt my situation because if i am overdrafting then i don't want to draw all of the draft through the appliance...right?

 

[BJ64]

i am thinking about gasketing the connection between the outlet and the pipe......i haven't ruled it out myself yet a a cause of the whistle. i think it is acting as a barometric damper, but that shouldn't hurt my situation because if i am overdrafting then i don't want to draw all of the draft through the appliance...right?

I'm gonna bump this and see what others may think..

I'm not familiar with the stove to be able to answer that.

 

[Diabel]

What is the flue set up?

 

[Crabbypatty]

flue is rear exit 8", horizontal for about 12" into a 90 el and then vertical for 5' into a 7"x11" tile lined masonary chimnney that is 16' high or so. it is on a hearth in front of a double sided fireplace with the damper removed and the opening where the damper existed is sealed with a piece of 16 ga black iron sheet steel with a 8" hole for the single wall pipe to pass through.........i burned this stove all day today and i paid close attention to it. i found that i can control the fire ok with the primary air lever, but i have to keep it at about half way open to stop overfiring. i keep i themo on top of the stove and strive for 550 to 600 degrees in everburn. is that acceptable? this is my third year with this stove and i didn't have any trouble the last two years. i want to get as much heat out of it as i safely can. any advice is appreciated

 

[Diabel]

Sounds like a good flue set up. I don't know why these stoves overfire once in a while. Mine did something similar couple weeks ago. The flue thermo. (magnetic) read 700* :bug: that is 1400* interior temp.

In your case if possible consider a flue damper just for those occasions. On my set up I can't really put one in. Someone here mentioned (I saw couple of pics) an air intake damper. I might look into that.

 

[firefighterjake]

yea, i tried it tonite...with a lighter and with a punk. . ..

A punk huh? I raised one of 'em . . . didn't realize they served any useful purpose other than giving adults a whole bunch of attitude. If I had only known they could also detect leaks.

 

[Crabbypatty]

update.......i replaced the gasket on the outlet and tightened the pipe to outlet connection. she is purring in everburn now whith a much quieter whistle. i am not used to running this stove wiht properly seasoned wood and i have made some adjustments on how i run it and it is finally cooperating! thanks for all of your input!