Pacific Energy Extended Burn Technology

[venator260]

I just installed an FP25 in my living room and I'm curious about real world experiences with pe' s extended burn technology. I've read about how it works. What I suppose I'm wondering is how far real world users are able to turn down their stoves and still get clean combustion. So far, I haven't had difficulty controlling the fire for a cleaner burn, and it seems to have a bigger range of clean burning settings than does my 30NC, which seems to either have stove top temps at 750 or lose secondaries. However, it doesn't seem to act any differently than what I would think a fireplace without this sort of thing on it would. I don't think that anything has changed since, however, my stove has a manufacture date of 02/2015 according to the docs with the stove. Must have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for awhile, as I just received it about a month ago.

 

[venator260]

Like, for instance, right now this is the view into my fireplace. It looks to me like there's decent secondary combustion, but my chimney is smoking. From the descriptions online, it sounds as though, if this were the case, a flap should be opening and letting more air into the unit.

 

[Hogwildz]

Many can cut the air control all the way low, and burn just fine & clean. If it is smoking not long after reload, that is normal. Are you sure it is smoke, and not steam? Is it dark or white? Not much secondary in that photo. Secondaries would have flames jetting out the holes in the baffle.

You may wan to try loading north to south also.

 

[venator260]

Many can cut the air control all the way low, and burn just fine & clean. If it is smoking not long after reload, that is normal. Are you sure it is smoke, and not steam? Is it dark or white? Not much secondary in that photo. Secondaries would have flames jetting out the holes in the baffle.

You may wan to try loading north to south also.

Pretty sure it's smoke as there's no gap between the smoke and the stack. I can't tell too well as its nighttime and I'm looking with a spot light. This was a good while after a reload; the wood volume has reduced by about half at this point. But I'll have to play with it during a few colder days we have coming up. Draft has been pretty anemic during warmer days. Also I haven't been reloading as much then because it's so warm.

I would like to load north south, but I have about 2 years worth of wood cut 18 inches long, and the fire box on this unit is about 15-16 inches deep. As I think of it though, the 30nc seemed to catch up and burn hotter and cleaner more easily when loaded n-s.

 

[Starstuff]

I modded my stove so I could cover the primary air vent even more so that it is open just a crack. I have a very strong draft for some reason (only a 13 foot stack, but all interior except for the last foot), and I found that even on the lowest setting, it was burning too hot, though a full load would last overnight just fine. Now, it can go longer on less wood, though not as hot. It cruises around 500-550. As long as the wood is dry, there is no smoke. With good wood like ash or oak, my stove is still at 250F 10 hours later.

 

[venator260]

Interesting. I have about a 16 foot stack with about 10-12 feet inside (ventis multifuel). I haven't shut down more than 1/3 open and kept a decent flame. My wood was about 18 percent in the spring, and has been in a covered shed since, so that's not the issue. I'm burning almost totally ash. I do wonder what will change as the temps drop into the lower 20's; my basement stove starts to get an incredible draft in the teens and 20's outside.

Do you have some sort of temperature monitoring on your insert? I have an IR gun but it's enclosed so I can't get to the hotspots. I run my 30nc based on thermometer readings, so this insert is a learning experience.

 

[Starstuff]

I'm curious about your burn practices. Once you get the stove dialed in, you should not have "a decent flame." You don't want any flames coming from the wood itself--maybe a wisp here and there. All the burning should be blue secondaries. I use an IR gun and measure the spot just above the door in the center, which is the correct place to get a reading for my insert. I'm not sure about yours, but probably a similar location. I get a good flame licking the logs and then progressively close down the primary air. At 400, I set it at the lowest setting and it climbs up to 500-550 on its own after that. If I try closing it down anytime before 400F, it will die and turn into a smoke bomb.

 

[Hogwildz]

There is no need to mod your stove unless you have a very tall stack with very strong draft. I have 27' of double wall insulated and get 12 hour burns with 250-300 reload temps with no mods.
You will see a much better draft once the temps outside start to dip.
I use 2 thermos on the face of the insert just above the door right & left of center between the top corners.

Secondaries will only be happening the first 1-3 hours or so of the burn, while the nasties burn off, then it will be lazy flames or just glowing coals with a few smaller flames flashing here and there. Don't get caught up on secondaries & flames, if you are getting a steady temp after it settles in, and heating the place, your golden.

 

[venator260]

I'm curious about your burn practices. Once you get the stove dialed in, you should not have "a decent flame." You don't want any flames coming from the wood itself--maybe a wisp here and there. All the burning should be blue secondaries. I use an IR gun and measure the spot just above the door in the center, which is the correct place to get a reading for my insert. I'm not sure about yours, but probably a similar location. I get a good flame licking the logs and then progressively close down the primary air. At 400, I set it at the lowest setting and it climbs up to 500-550 on its own after that. If I try closing it down anytime before 400F, it will die and turn into a smoke bomb.

I have not been able to achieve secondary only burn with this stove, as I regularly will with the 30NC that I have in the basement. Because the 30NC is one floor lower, there's an extra 7-8 feet of chimney on that stove though. I think it's an easier breather as well. I interpreted the wispy flames as the smoke burning off in the photo, but I have gotten the flame jets from the baffle holes with this stove, they just haven't been quite as extreme as what I've seen from my 30NC. The 30 will get such that it looks like a torch from the doghouse and a roof of flames above the wood. But I generally follow the same practice as I do with that stove, let the wood get charred with the air wide open and then turn down in several steps over about 1/2 hour. With the 30NC at the temperatures we have now, I'd get a stove top over 800 degrees if I left any travel in the primary air control. With this PE, I lose secondaries if I try to turn it down below 1/3 open. I can get clean burns, but this thread was a bit about how low I could go, as I'm starting to think that this stove may be a bit oversized for my space; I'm heating about 1400 square feet of house with insulation of varying quality over an uninsulated basement.

There is no need to mod your stove unless you have a very tall stack with very strong draft. I have 27' of double wall insulated and get 12 hour burns with 250-300 reload temps with no mods.
You will see a much better draft once the temps outside start to dip.
I use 2 thermos on the face of the insert just above the door right & left of center between the top corners.

Secondaries will only be happening the first 1-3 hours or so of the burn, while the nasties burn off, then it will be lazy flames or just glowing coals with a few smaller flames flashing here and there. Don't get caught up on secondaries & flames, if you are getting a steady temp after it settles in, and heating the place, your golden.

I haven't had a chance to run the stove in really cold weather. I did try to burn earlier in the week with outside temps in the 40's to low 50's which was rather frustrating. I've experienced the same with the basement stove, so I wasn't surprised. I am curious to see how the stove acts when it's in the teens to low 20's outside. At those temps, my other stove became borderline uncontrollable; shut the primary air and the key damper and STT still climbing through the 700's.

I like to extract maximum efficiency from the wood I burn, but, even though I'll sometimes get smoke from the chimney, I the only problem I've had so far is getting it too hot in here and needing to open a window, and I get heat from it for 8-9 hours. The fans are still running when I wake up and get home from work. It's been especially nice to wake up to a warm house without the need for electric baseboard support.

 

[begreen]

Colder weather is coming. That should improve draft and performance.

 

[Squisher]

My summit has the ebt tech in it. It's a series B. You can hear the little flapper at times with my summit opening and closing. A tink, tink, kind of noise. I hear it doing its thing when a load is settled in at times. I find it seems to mellow out the peaks and valleys a bit. It makes the stove 'easier' to run it seems. Once the load is settled in it opens and closes itself and keeps the stove in a nice clean burn range. For my setup you have to exercise a little patience with the air control and not keep, bumping it up and down trying to stay in the zone. Once the load is settled in and the air is cutback it'll seem like secondaries are going to fall off but if I'm in my sweet zone of just bumped off of full close if I fight the urge to fiddle with the air control low and behold the ebt will open(and later close again, and open again, and....) and temps will stabilize for the load.

Every setup will behave different. But PE's in general are very easy breathers.

 

[saydinli]

My summit has the ebt tech in it. It's a series B. You can hear the little flapper at times with my summit opening and closing. A tink, tink, kind of noise. I hear it doing its thing when a load is settled in at times. I find it seems to mellow out the peaks and valleys a bit. It makes the stove 'easier' to run it seems. Once the load is settled in it opens and closes itself and keeps the stove in a nice clean burn range. For my setup you have to exercise a little patience with the air control and not keep, bumping it up and down trying to stay in the zone. Once the load is settled in and the air is cutback it'll seem like secondaries are going to fall off but if I'm in my sweet zone of just bumped off of full close if I fight the urge to fiddle with the air control low and behold the ebt will open(and later close again, and open again, and....) and temps will stabilize for the load.

Every setup will behave different. But PE's in general are very easy breathers.

I find my FP 30 works very similarily . I hear the tink tink tink of the EBT2 throughout the burn cycle.
I find once I see the 2ndaries light up, I start to turn the air control down. 1/2 way at first for 5-10mins and then 1/4 for another 5 or 10 mins and then fully closed or just slightly open depending on the burn once I feel the fire has stabilized.

 

[venator260]

I believe I've observed it working now.

I'm laying here on the couch, and I heard a bit of a clank, and the fire seemed tomdie back a bit. After awhile, it seemed to pick back up again. Still waiting for the next clank of it shutting.

I'm still having to keep the draft control farther open than everyone is mentioning here, it's between a third and a half, and I have a bit more flame than the posted picture with some limited secondaries. Unlike last night though, I don't have anything visible coming from the chimney, so I must habe it opened enough that it's keeping the fire box temp up.

I do like the idea of having some adjustment left, as its still not really cold, and I like having enough adjustment to prevent a runaway stove like I've had in the 30nc downstairs.

 

[Squisher]

I encourage people not to be afraid of running things up really hot when settling a load in. Get some heat in the chimney and some good draft going. Then when it's all off gassed and settled in and cut back it'll pull nice strong secondaries on a low low setting.

 

[begreen]

As long as there are flames the wood is off gassing volatiles. With good dry wood I start closing down the air in about 50% increments as soon as the wood is fully aflame regardless of stove top temp. Flue gas temp (probe) is a better indicator for me.

 

[venator260]

As long as there are flames the wood is off gassing volatiles. With good dry wood I start closing down the air in about 50% increments as soon as the wood is fully aflame regardless of stove top temp. Flue gas temp (probe) is a better indicator for me.

On a stove that's what I use. I shut down based upon the thermometer on the pipe, then fine tune the air for my target stove top temp. For my setup, I leaned what temp is needed to sustain the draft when I shut the door, and the points at which I needed to do each shutdown increment.

Can't do any of that with a zc fireplace, so this is a learning experience for me.

 

[garyvvol2]

I encourage people not to be afraid of running things up really hot when settling a load in. Get some heat in the chimney and some good draft going. Then when it's all off gassed and settled in and cut back it'll pull nice strong secondaries on a low low setting.

yep laying the wood in a NS and second layer EW works great for the secondary burn Get the flame going and get the stove pipe to about 400, then back off the front draft to almost closed. Let the mighty summit do the rest.