Pacific Energy NEOSTONE 2.5... opinions?

[kenora]

My wife and I are set on a large high efficient wood stove for an addition to our existing home which will be built next spring. The stove will be placed against the S wall of the main level kitchen/dining/living room (1000 sq/ft) completely open with a loft at the N end and a 16 ft cathedral ceiling. A pellet stove will be installed in the ICF walkout basement (also wide open with a laundry/2 piece bathroom).
we are in the very frosty North (Kenora Ontario, climate zone 7) and will be insulating the main floor walls to R38 and the cathedral ceiling to R80. That said it still gets COLD and for a long time....so I would like a wood stove that can heat the main floor and a pellet stove that can heat the basement... I'm considering a Harman (model not decided yet) as I like the idea of a looooooong run time between maintenance cycles.
We have seen the NEOSTONE 2.5 with soap stone and love the look. However I don't know a thing about PE or that model in particular....does anyone have one..if so what is your opinion of it?
FYI......I'm on 9 acres of boreal forest and have 8 dry cords in the woodshed.... and another 6 or so waiting to be cleaned up after a brutal winter storm.....so firewood is not an issue...

 

[Nigel459]

We were researching PE for our cabin stove and pretty much all PE models have a great reputation (even around hearth.com). Solid performance, a great workhorse brand all around.

The "neostone" models look great to me, and the 2.5 box is big enough to burn pretty long when needed. The stone would temper the heat quite well. Which also means it would take a little while to heat up...

If you want a "sit by the hot stove" stove then get a steel box like the PE super or summit. If you want a "softer" heater then cast or soapstone will do that, like the Alderleas or Neostone models.

Your setup--completely open with a cathedral ceiling--in my experience, means you can pick any style of stove you want, i.e. stone, steel, cast... radiant or convective. The heat will find its way around... the only question is the size. A 2.5 box should be pretty good for long burns.

The shopping and calculations are all part of the process... choose something you like the look of and have fun!

 

[kenora]

Nigel459...thanks for the detailed reply...yes my wife and I love the look of the soap stone and it's good to hear that PE has some positive reviews...I definitely don't want a troublesome stove...the only downside so far is the extravagant price the local dealer wants for the stove $3800 and another $2500 for the chimney... now I guess I better start looking for a "better deal" in the U.S (Grand Forks North Dakota...Menards etc is 2 1/2 hrs south)

 

[begreen]

PE makes solid, simple stoves that work well. One thing to note though, neither the Summit or Super 27 are very hot - sit by the stove - heaters. They both have a full convection jacket that shields the sides from radiating intensely. The Summit and the Spectrum also have a slotted convection top with removable trivet. The Alderlea series replaces the metal jacket with cast iron. If one wants an intensely radiant stove there are better options.

We had an old fellow that bought a Summit several years back and kept on posting that the stove was not heating right as compared to his old pre-EPA stove. He went on like this for a couple years griping about what poor heaters EPA stoves are. After going over many details it turned out the house was warm and the stove was working fine, but it didn't radiate heat intensely from the sides like he was used to. I suggested he remove the side panels and try that, but instead he sold the stove and got a cheap, unshielded Drolet. That worked for him, he was happy as a clam after that.

 

[Nigel459]

Nigel459...thanks for the detailed reply...yes my wife and I love the look of the soap stone and it's good to hear that PE has some positive reviews...I definitely don't want a troublesome stove...the only downside so far is the extravagant price the local dealer wants for the stove $3800 and another $2500 for the chimney... now I guess I better start looking for a "better deal" in the U.S (Grand Forks North Dakota...Menards etc is 2 1/2 hrs south)

Holy smokes, 3800 buys two super 27s here! I have seen that tho with soapstone--it adds a lot to the cost. The neos do look very nice. Good luck finding one, seems to me you should be able to find a deal this time of year, hope you can.

PE makes solid, simple stoves that work well. One thing to note though, neither the Summit or Super 27 are very hot - sit by the stove - heaters. They both have a full convection jacket that shields the sides from radiating intensely. The Summit and the Spectrum also have a slotted convection top with removable trivet. The Alderlea series replaces the metal jacket with cast iron. If one wants an intensely radiant stove there are better options.

We had an old fellow that bought a Summit several years back and kept on posting that the stove was not heating right as compared to his old pre-EPA stove. He went on like this for a couple years griping about what poor heaters EPA stoves are. After going over many details it turned out the house was warm and the stove was working fine, but it didn't radiate heat intensely from the sides like he was used to. I suggested he remove the side panels and try that, but instead he sold the stove and got a cheap, unshielded Drolet. That worked for him, he was happy as a clam after that.

Good clarification on the "sit by the hot stove" comment, and good story. Agreed--all of the mentioned stoves do not "intensely radiate" like an old unshielded stove. Although arguably the "glass" (ceramic) does radiate better when sitting right in front than an old stove with no glass...

 

[jetsam]

I hear lots of people say that a stove clad with insulation radiates just as much heat as a plain steel stove, but that beggars belief.

If most of the stove's body has very poor thermal conductivity (due to soapstone panels, for example) you can call it "soft" heat, but you can't call it equal heat. It's soft because most of it is going up the flue. That same stove would do so much better if you took a hammer to the soapstone and opened the steel to the air.

People are going to argue, but it's a box with fire in it. The higher the thermal conductivity of the box, the more heat gets out to the room instead of going up the flue.

Steel (depending on composition) has a thermal conductivity of around 30-60 W/m K. 0.5% carbon steel is about 50. Soapstone is 5-13 W/m K depending who you ask (Tulikivi says theirs is 6 and change). That's flat out putting insulation on the stove.

 

[Nigel459]

...
If most of the stove's body has very poor thermal conductivity (due to soapstone panels, for example) you can call it "soft" heat, but you can't call it equal heat. It's soft because most of it is going up the flue. That same stove would do so much better if you took a hammer to the soapstone and opened the steel to the air....

Sounds logical, unless, as the makers typically assert, the stone absorbs said heat and releases it later via its heat capacity. Sounds like you don't think that is the case?

I don't have a pony in this race, just genuinely curious if all those "beautiful soapstone stoves" are really wasting a whole bunch of heat up the pipe? What about all those efficiency claims? by the great Woodstock Soapstone Co. no less!?

 

[diverscale]

PE makes solid, simple stoves that work well. One thing to note though, neither the Summit or Super 27 are very hot - sit by the stove - heaters. They both have a full convection jacket that shields the sides from radiating intensely. The Summit and the Spectrum also have a slotted convection top with removable trivet. The Alderlea series replaces the metal jacket with cast iron. If one wants an intensely radiant stove there are better options.

Well I disagree on the summit. I have it, heating from my basement with it. Often go sit in front of it with friends and a few beer. Thing is VERY hot indeed. You cannot in any way think this stove, correctly operated, is not hot enough to sit in front or even beside at an angle and having good heat. We often have to back off and then get back to first floor so we don't overheat after a while. And all that while riding the stove at minimum settings so it does not smoulder/extinguish. Jackets or not, I don't see any way you could not be at least warm sitting around a PE summit correctly operated.

Compared to my pre-epa stoves, this thing still heats like a beast.

 

[begreen]

The front is very radiant, the sides are not nearly as much. I have two friends with Summits and have had many a beer in front of them. But sit to the side of it and it is just warm. The shielded sides help give the stove close clearances. 4" in a corner with double-wall pipe! That's not saying that the Summit isn't a beast of a heater, it puts out a lot of BTUs. Next time I'm up north I will measure side temp vs front.

 

[diverscale]

The front is very radiant, the sides are not nearly as much. I have two friends with Summits and have had many a beer in front of them. But sit to the side of it and it is just warm. The shielded sides help give the stove close clearances. 4" in a corner with double-wall pipe! That's not saying that the Summit isn't a beast of a heater, it puts out a lot of BTUs. Next time I'm up north I will measure side temp vs front.

I often have as many as 4-5 people sitting in here, and no one is on the side of the stove where you get "no heat".

I don't know, maybe if there was 12 people some would get less heat, but as long as you are not 90 degree from the stovefront, on the side directly looking at a boring heat shield, I cannot see any way you would not be warm enough .

First experience here with a fire, sitting over 6 foot from the stove over 45 degree from stovefront and still getting enough heat so I could not sit here for hours.

 

[begreen]

Don't ask me to explain the complaints of a grumpy old man. His stove was running at 650-700F stove top and he was still complaining. His frame of reference was an old stove that burned through twice as much wood, but radiated heat from the unshielded sides. He also complained of high flue temps, but finally started turning the air down for better secondary burn.

 

[kenora]

Thanks for the variety of thoughts and opinions on the NEO 2.5 as well as soapstone.....

Having got this discussion going I must now sadly add that the NEO 2.5 appears to be off the table due..

-cost...we dropped by the dealer and got the in person detailed quote for the stove and chimney instead of the over the phone WAG...seems like its be closer to $7000 CDN

-and the "look" isn't what my wife thought it would be...our house will be a craftsman style and this stove is too modern looking..


So I need a stove large enough to heat the big addition (thats 1000 sq ft with 16 ft cathedral ceiling and existing 800 sq ft on the main floor) and is classical looking and has an excellent record of reliability, long burns, etc..

ideas...

 

[kenora]

I'll start a new thread looking for those ipinioms and read a couple hundred existing... it occurs to me that I should just let this thread for a natural death

 

[diverscale]

-cost...we dropped by the dealer and got the in person detailed quote for the stove and chimney instead of the over the phone WAG...seems like its be closer to $7000 CDN

Wow, that is one expensive stove. Hope it does something very special for that price.

I have not experienced any other EPA stoves, as my two previous stoves were Pre-EPA, but I am heating my 1000 SQ/FT home with standard 8ft ceiling, from the basement, without any other heating sources (all thermostats set at 15 deg Celsius and obviously never going on) with my PE Summit and I am generally satisfied. So I would guess if you like the look of the PE Summit classic it would be a good choice (same design).

I paid 2500$ tax-in for my basic summit with ash tray, that was delivered and installed by myself. it was around 2800-3000$ when including delivery and installation.

I work on evening shift, so I load in the morning, and might hot-reload some more wood before going to work when it's colder. Then Load again when I get back from work and again a small hot reload if the night is set to be cold, so two burns a day during winter. See if you can compare that to your first floor with 16 ft ceiling and if it fits your bill.

I did choose PE because of the simpler design. The only thing I observed that could need maintenance and added cost are the bricks like any other stove, and the flimsy, but very simple to change seal between the baffle and the supply tube, plus yet to see if the baffle with pass the test of time in a few years, but vendor informed me that it was a lifetime warranty item.

 

[begreen]

I'm assuming the price was for the stove and the full installation correct? You might do better by getting the stove and having a certified WETT installer do the chimney installation. If you stick with a stove that only requires ember protection the hearth will be pretty easy. However, satisfying the wife's desire for looks is going to amp up the cost. You could get a Drolet HT2000 (or Enerzone 3.4) and it will heat well and cost under $2000cdn. The PE Summit is a good strong heater or in fancier cast iron dress it becomes the Alderlea T6.

 

[bcrtops]

Some of us going on 10 yrs. with a PE product. Baffle is still in good shape -- the metal on top is a bit warped, but does not effect anything. Their simplicity in cleaning & servicing is their best selling point. (That is 5 cord/yr. = 50 cord of firewood)

Be sure to get a good dealer, that plans to stay in business. Any CS is Totally dependent on the local dealer, as factory/manufacturer Customer Service is non-existent.

 

[kenora]

I'm assuming the price was for the stove and the full installation correct?

Yup...$750 of that was for installation...and they say that was a MINIMUM!!


I will be looking into getting a WETT certified person to do the chimney...I'm sure I can manage the rest of the install.

 

[Woody5506]

What's your target budget? I'd say look into the Alderlea PE's but the cost may be just about the same or only a bit less. I was over 6k for my PE T5 + stainless double wall chimney + install. Tax credit may have dropped it to right around 6k.

 

[begreen]

Yup...$750 of that was for installation...and they say that was a MINIMUM!!


I will be looking into getting a WETT certified person to do the chimney...I'm sure I can manage the rest of the install.

Hmm. The overall bid seems high but the Neostone is crazy expensive. The T6 is a thousand less expensive and the Summit $1500 less. If you have a Jotul dealer look into the Jotul F55. And in Quadrafire at the Explorer III.

 

[kenora]

the basic stove was $2500 then add another $1750 for the soap stone..

I've been looking at pictures of the Isle Royal.... very nice looking....that might be the one....

 

[begreen]

The Isle Royale is discontinued. Great stove, but Quad replaced it with the Explorer III.

 

[diverscale]

I mentionned the Summit Classic because of the look he required, Though I am not sure of the price difference (My Summit non-classic was 2500 like aforementioned). If the Stove was not installed in my basement I would surely have gotten the PE Summit Classic as it looks so good.