Pacific Energy Pacific Wood insert damper question

[cammer]

Firstly, thanks for all of the info in these forums.

I did a quick search and couldn't find anything on my particular topic so here goes.

I have a PE Pacific wood insert. The stove works great and I feel that is pretty much perfectly sized for my home. However, I would like to be able to limit the air intake more than is currently available. With the damper fully closed I feel that there is a little too much air entering the box. This is causing shorter than possible burn times and also a lack of full control of a full load of wood.

Now, I understand that the stove must be fed sufficient air to allow secondary burning for emissions (as well as optimum heat output) reasons. The reason that I feel that a little more restriction would be beneficial is that shortly after the fire is first started (or a new load of fuel is added) I close that damper fully and have a nice, rolling secondary burn visible above the fuel and no smoke from the chimney. This is how I have always maintained the burn in other stoves with excellent results regarding both heat output and low smoke/creosote. As that new fire reaches temperature in my Pacific, the secondary burn becomes almost "hurried" looking and seems to flare quite a bit when compared with that nice rolling flame that I am used to.

1. Is the situation that I am describing what is actually desired by EPA standards and the stove manufacturers?

2. Are there more BTU's/longer burn times to be obtained from a reduction in air the the box is allowed without the fire becoming smokey/producing excess creosote?

3. Any suggestions on how this could be done on my particular insert?

All suggestions and advice are appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[BrotherBart]

Is this your first stove where you have placed the wood "end wise" front to back? If so you will find that it burns faster, albeit more efficiently that way. The minimum amount of primary air that is a part of the clean burning design will create a hot channel between the two bottom center splits and while enabling efficient burning it will also make for a hotter faster burn than side to side orientation of the wood. Of course with side to side a more efficient burn is accomplished by raking a one or two inch trough in the center of the coals from the front to the back before loading the wood to allow complete air circulation to the wood.

PE says to always burn endwise but you might want to try a load placed side to side and see if you like it better.

 

[Roospike]

All new EPA stoves are designed to meet EPA standards and the companies go to great lenghts to design a stove to work best to meet these standards.
Brotherbart brought up a good point with front to back vs side to side loading and how it changes your burn rate.

How tall is your chimney? full liner ?

 

[Hogwildz]

It wouldn't hurt to check the door seal with the dollar bill trick. Might need adjustment. Mine did. You might be getting unwanted air through the seal in an area or two if not adjusted correctly.

 

[Gooserider]

Second the notion of checking the door seal. Try closing the door on a dollar bill in various areas, you should not be able to pull it out. Also look at the gasket and see if you see a good "print" of the door frame embedded in it, all the way around the door. If you don't the door is probably not sealing properly.

The latch on PE stoves should be TIGHT, and many times needs adjusting or the door will let air in around the sides. This can also cause you to get areas of smoke on the door glass, and have problems controlling the fire temperatures, giving borderline "runaway" situtations. We have had at least a couple of people recently having problems, and it is the first thing I thought of when reading your symptoms.

It is an easy fix fortunately, there is a tab on the door catch that merely needs to be bent in a very small amount by tapping it with a hammer. (Perhaps a PE owner can post a picture?)

Gooserider

 

[PacificGuyInCNY]

Have to second what Hog & Goose appropriately brought up, the P.E. inserts are sensitive to door adjustment. I had mine installed by a guy with a reputation for being the most perfectionistic, anal retentive type east of the rockies, so I never had any trouble but I watched Hog go through a few sleepless nights here on the board til he figured out (thanks to our friends on the board) that he was leakin' air through the door. You'd think P.E. would spell this out in the owner's manual, but hey we have this forum so it's all good. Do the dollar bill test. Creosote on the glass is also a giveaway as Pacifics do a great job of self cleaning if they're set up right.

Just out of curiosity, did you install your insert yourself or hire someone? Also out of curiosity, on your insert is the knife-edge along the top of the face plate (where the door gasket presses against the front of the stove) straight, or does it have a slight bow in it? Come to find out the Pacific Summit inserts have about an 1/8" bow, apparently to put a bit of tension on the door when you throw the latch.

 

[Roospike]

Second the notion of checking the door seal. Try closing the door on a dollar bill in various areas, you should not be able to pull it out. Also look at the gasket and see if you see a good "print" of the door frame embedded in it, all the way around the door. If you don't the door is probably not sealing properly.

The latch on PE stoves should be TIGHT, and many times needs adjusting or the door will let air in around the sides. This can also cause you to get areas of smoke on the door glass, and have problems controlling the fire temperatures, giving borderline "runaway" situtations. We have had at least a couple of people recently having problems, and it is the first thing I thought of when reading your symptoms.

It is an easy fix fortunately, there is a tab on the door catch that merely needs to be bent in a very small amount by tapping it with a hammer.
(Perhaps a PE owner can post a picture?)

Gooserider

Gunners pic of his Summit door latch and hook.

 

[cammer]

Wow. It never ceases to amaze me how people are so willing to help out on these and other forums. Thanks for the interest and advice.

To answer some of the questions asked of me:

-this is the first stove that I have operated that was designed to have fuel loaded end-wise. I have tried loading this stove both ways and find a much nicer burn loading it end-wise as designed. I will try raking a trough in the coals as suggested and loading the conventional way with some of my shorter wood but I know that most of my lengths will not fit that way.

-my chimney is 25' with a full liner and the insert and liner were both professionally installed

-not sure if the knife edge is straight or bowed, I will check when I get home (currently at work)

-the door is definitely tight. When cold it is actually a bit of a struggle to engage the door latch all the way. When hot it becomes easier but still feels tight

-I will also to try the dollar bill trick when I get home and I will post the results (it would be really nice if a minor adjustment there was all that was required)

Thanks again.

 

[Hogwildz]

I can actually remove/slide the dollar bill out in most areas. There a a few tight spots I cannot. But it is snug at least. Before there was no resistance on the entire latch side of the door and about 1/2 of the lower door edge on the latch side. I could easily wiggle the bill back and forth, even doubles up. I had no imprint the entire latch side of the door in the rope seal. Now it does have an edge imprint entirely around, although tight on the latch side and more prevalent on the remainder. But this is as good as it gets for me, its adjusted to the point if I go any further the latch bearing hits the stove body. So far burns have been controlled and the glass stays cleaner in the previous trouble spots. Unless I throw some moist wood in and it rests close to the door, then it will get some crud on it. I also noticed that the rope seal was set a lil further in on the trouble spots then the rest of the door. So I am sure this combined with needing adjustment created my problem. In time I will replace the rope seal and see if I can get a more even seating with it. This is an easy test/fix, and if it is indeed your problem, its the one I would rather deal with than having to dig into chimney, other seals etc. It is the least invasive repair IMHO.

 

[Gunner]

Thank you for posting my pic Roo..I was going to do that this morning.


If your glass is staying clean then your door is probably not leaking. IMO with a 24ft liner you just have a setup that is drafting very well. I have about 22ft of chimney and run my air 100% closed alot of the time, as the draft is strong.

On the plus side it makes starting a fire in warmer weather a breeze.

One thing that you may want to do is leave your splits larger, I have been leaving my stuff for 07/08 quite large.

 

[cammer]

My glass is very clean. I too doubt that the seal is leaking but I haven't had a chance to check yet to rule it out.

The unit does draft very well - even in the warmer fall temperatures. That is exactly what I believe is the issue. I was hoping that there was a way that the damper could be adjusted somehow. I definitely don't require as much air as the full open position allows - ever. Mid-high position allows as much as is ever needed. I just hoped that the fully closed position could be reduced even more, assuming that this would even help.

Please don't get me wrong. I really don't consider this a problem as the insert works great. I was just hoping for an improvement in the way of longer burn times if at all possible with no ill effects. The larger splits would definitely help increase times so I will give that a go if I leave my set-up the way it is now.

 

[begreen]

I can actually remove/slide the dollar bill out in most areas. In time I will replace the rope seal and see if I can get a more even seating with it. This is an easy test/fix, and if it is indeed your problem, its the one I would rather deal with than having to dig into chimney, other seals etc. It is the least invasive repair IMHO.

Whoa HW, it looks like your starting to rust. Hope you can get burning soon.

 

[Hogwildz]

I can actually remove/slide the dollar bill out in most areas. In time I will replace the rope seal and see if I can get a more even seating with it. This is an easy test/fix, and if it is indeed your problem, its the one I would rather deal with than having to dig into chimney, other seals etc. It is the least invasive repair IMHO.

Whoa HW, it looks like your starting to rust. Hope you can get burning soon.

Thats the combined effects of warm weather, nuke plant proximity & too much St. Pauli Girl Dark, I think I'm becoming "whorehouse red". *grins*

 

[Gunner]

My glass is very clean. I too doubt that the seal is leaking but I haven't had a chance to check yet to rule it out.

The unit does draft very well - even in the warmer fall temperatures. That is exactly what I believe is the issue. I was hoping that there was a way that the damper could be adjusted somehow. I definitely don't require as much air as the full open position allows - ever. Mid-high position allows as much as is ever needed. I just hoped that the fully closed position could be reduced even more, assuming that this would even help.

Please don't get me wrong. I really don't consider this a problem as the insert works great. I was just hoping for an improvement in the way of longer burn times if at all possible with no ill effects. The larger splits would definitely help increase times so I will give that a go if I leave my set-up the way it is now.

What kinda burn times are you getting now?
What wood are you burning?

 

[cammer]

Currently I am burning mostly sugar maple, red oak, elm and soft maple. I use the elm and soft maple through the day when my wife or I are there and the harder stuff at night and when we go out.

With the box filled about 2/3 to 3/4 full I would say that the fire is hot enough for the blower to stay on for 5 hours or so (with the hard wood and the damper fully closed). That is a rough estimate as I have never specifically timed it. Also, the unit does not have a thermometer so I am not sure of heat output or at what temp the blower is activated at.

 

[Roospike]

Thank you for posting my pic Roo..I was going to do that this morning.


If your glass is staying clean then your door is probably not leaking. IMO with a 24ft liner you just have a setup that is drafting very well. I have about 22ft of chimney and run my air 100% closed alot of the time, as the draft is strong.

On the plus side it makes starting a fire in warmer weather a breeze.

One thing that you may want to do is leave your splits larger, I have been leaving my stuff for 07/08 quite large.

Good post Gunner , Larger splits and even rounds will run longer burn times .

How large are your splits cammer ? Are you burning rounds / how large ?

 

[PacificGuyInCNY]

Nice big rounds always burn even longer in my Summit insert.

BTW Hog, you say you're drinking Pauli Girl Dark but are you sure no one's been slipping you Killian Red? Just a thought.

 

[Hogwildz]

Nice big rounds always burn even longer in my Summit insert.

BTW Hog, you say you're drinking Pauli Girl Dark but are you sure no one's been slipping you Killian Red? Just a thought.

As long as its good beer, they can slip me any brand they want And plus is St. Valentines Day is just around the corner. I can put a bow on, and tell the OL to oepn me up and eat some candy

 

[PacificGuyInCNY]

Hog I wouldn't touch that last line with a 10 foot log.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hog I wouldn't touch that last line with a 10 foot log.

Unfortunately, the OL prolly wouldn't either