Pacific Energy secondary burn question

[GeoffreyLevens]

Hi all, new to this forum and also new to wood stoves. Been shopping like a shopaholic for one to buy for a "tiny house", about 300 sq ft, very well insulated.

Was looking at some tiny stoves like Hobbit from UK and the Mini 12 CT Survival from Gray Stoves in OR. But short burn times I think would be a pain in the backside overnight when my outside temps in the Rockies are single digits. So looked at bigger stoves, in the "small" category, but even smallest seem over powered and would likely turn it into a sauna.

Finally came up w/ the idea of small catalytic stove, still too big at regular burning level, but choked down all the way to a glow maybe?

That brings me to Pacific Stoves. Local dealer recommended Adele 4. Of course all dealers I have spoken to recommend whatever their smallest stove is even if obviously too big for the space.

So 2 questions really. 1) Would this idea work? I have searched on here and found seemingly mixed reviews 2) Will the PE secondary burn system work to give clean, steady burn even w/ vents cranked way down? That is what the dealer said but he does come across as a good salesman if you know what I mean...

Thank you!

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Other option suggested by dealer was one of the Blaze King 20 series, Ashford, Chinook, and Sirocco. Any thoughts on one of these damped way down vs the PE also appreciated!

Thanks again

Edit--And I do want to be able to use the top to put a frying pan or pot on and cook...

 

[Grisu]

Welcome to the forum!

You will be hard pressed to find a woodstove that will give you a low enough output to not overheat 400 sqft and long burn times at the same time. Especially secondary burn stoves need to be run hot enough to ensure a clean and efficient combustion. Your best bet may be a small catalytic stove like the 20 series from BlazeKing, which your dealer mentioned, or a Woodstock Keystone/Palladian. The air in those cat stoves can be turned lower for a slow, extended burn. But even those may easily be too much for that small space.

Just to mention some other options:
A small pellet stove with thermostat regulation may give you ample of steady heat. You probably won't need many pellets to heat that small space.
A minisplit heatpump would also be efficient and can be augmented with a solar PV installation to offset power costs.

 

[begreen]

There are lots of threads on this topic. Not sure what it is this year but we have had about a dozen similar requests as compared to maybe one or two in other years. The bottom line is that the place is too small for a woodstove. The T4 or a small cat stove is a good suggestion, but expect to have a window open when it is above 10 or 20F. Another small cat stove would be the VC Intrepid II.

One caveat, most modern stoves want a 15ft flue from floor to chimney cap. That can be a challenge in a small place. Easy breathing stoves with a 12ft flue requirement will work better in this circumstance.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Thank you, really want to avoid using electricity at all if possible. Live in area that though no problems so far, could easily have power out for week or more in the event of giant winter storm. Found one gravity fed pellet stove but burns way too hot for the space, 30-40K BTU's on lowest/slowest setting.

The Palladian looks good but at least according to specs given has much higher BTU output than the BK 20's do

The BK specs given state:

Constant Heat output on Low Performance (HHV B415) =11,912 BTU's/h for up to 20 hours and Performance (LHV) = 12,840 BTU's/h for up to 20 hours

Though I haven't a clue what HHV B415 and LHV mean

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

There are lots of threads on this topic. Not sure what it is this year but we have had about a dozen similar requests as compared to maybe one or two in other years. The bottom line is that the place is too small for a woodstove. The T4 or a small cat stove is a good suggestion, but expect to have a window open when it is above 10 or 20F. Another small cat stove would be the VC Intrepid II.

One caveat, most modern stoves want a 15ft flue from floor to chimney cap. That can be a challenge in a small place. Easy breathing stoves with a 12ft flue requirement will work better in this circumstance.

An open window would be acceptable, I am a bit of fresh air fiend.

I think flue not big problem as my roof will be at least 12-13 ft above floor even near eaves which will be likely exit point

 

[Grisu]

Take those numbers with a grain of salt. They are measured under very specific conditions with standardized test fuel that may act quite different than the wood you want to burn. One thing to keep in mind: Space will probably be at a premium in your place. A stove with low clearances may be helpful. If you have a BK dealer close by, I would probably concentrate on those stoves.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

An open window would be acceptable, I am a bit of fresh air fiend.

I think flue not big problem as my roof will be at least 12-13 ft above floor even near eaves which will be likely exit point

Gross mis-spelling above but Adelea 4 is looking like an option. Not sure about the VC overall quality, whole topic too new to me but somehow I am a bit skeptical but regardless, I do much prefer to get steel if possible. The BK has iron outer wrapper for longer radiation but has steel fire box. And the T4 is all steel

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Take those numbers with a grain of salt. They are measured under very specific conditions with standardized test fuel that may act quite different than the wood you want to burn. One thing to keep in mind: Space will probably be at a premium in your place. A stove with low clearances may be helpful. If you have a BK dealer close by, I would probably concentrate on those stoves.

Yeah, I know numbers like that are at best speculative. The dealer did tell me he has a BK set up that he has been using to heat the store for several years and loves it.

 

[pma1123]

To clarify your above statement, the alderlea T4 is steel firebox w/cast iron outer bodywork.

 

[begreen]

Correct. The Alderlea series is castiron jacketed steel. This setup is better for small environments where strong radiant heat would require greater clearances and where strong heat is not an asset.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Correct. The Alderlea series is castiron jacketed steel. This setup is better for small environments where strong radiant heat would require greater clearances and where strong heat is not an asset.

And that right there is likely the final selling point over all other stoves I have looked at. Thank you!

 

[Grisu]

And that right there is likely the final selling point over all other stoves I have looked at. Thank you!

Don't want to dissuade you from the T4 but the BK Ashford 20 would be the same type (steel box plus cast-iron jacket) and has similar clearances as far as I remember.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

]

Don't want to dissuade you from the T4 but the BK Ashford 20 would be the same type (steel box plus cast-iron jacket) and has similar clearances as far as I remember.

Oh wait, finally got email back from sales guy who said that even though unique tech, the T4 is still secondary burn at heart and cannot be damped way down or it will pump out creosote. So that seals the deal on the T4. Looks like the Blaze King takes it in the home stretch

 

[kennyp2339]

for that small a space and tight of an area, go with a propane wall heater.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

for that small a space and tight of an area, go with a propane wall heater.

Could do but would love to get a divorce from burning petro products. Once I get house built and have my life more set up, hoping to even get rid of car and just have either a trike or quad velo type thing, peddle power, carry compartment, maybe trailer it can pull...

 

[Esprit]

What about building something like a Rocket Mass heater?

 

[kennyp2339]

Go with the BK 20 series, the cat stoves wont cook you out, you can adjust the heat output, good luck

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

From what I have read, rocket stoves put out a lot of heat very quickly that you then store in thermal mass so it releases gradually. Works great for heating but not for cooking and I really do want to use top of whatever I get as cookstove at least during the 6-8 months it is cold enough there for that. The BK does seem to be it. Just need to decide which version. From what I can find online there seems to be quite a price difference between the models but dealer seem to be pretty cagey about giving out BK prices ie. they don't I guess unless/until you call them or email. My local guy has yet to respond to that question but that will likely decide which of the 3 I get.

 

[Hogwildz]

]Oh wait, finally got email back from sales guy who said that even though unique tech, the T4 is still secondary burn at heart and cannot be damped way down or it will pump out creosote. So that seals the deal on the T4. Looks like the Blaze King takes it in the home stretch

Untrue.
I can cut my Summit all the way back and not have creosote problems.
You adjust the load to meet the need. Your dealer is misinformed.
I can load with 3 splits with clean burn for shorter burn times and/or less heat output, and load it full for more heat & longer burn times. You can do this in any modern stove, and not have to smoulder.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

IMO the stove that works well in tiny, well insulated spaces does not exist. No matter how small, the stove takes up lots of real estate and pumps lots of heat. In your situation I'd take a hard look at bulkhead mounted propane heaters.

 

[Quentin2]

Untrue.
I can cut my Summit all the way back and not have creosote problems.
You adjust the load to meet the need. Your dealer is misinformed.
I can load with 3 splits with clean burn for shorter burn times and/or less heat output, and load it full for more heat & longer burn times. You can do this in any modern stove, and not have to smoulder.

I see what your saying, but you putting 3 splits would equal the op putting 1 split to get that clean burn with low heat with that tiny firebox. This sounds like unreasonable stove babysitting to me. If he's deadset on burning wood which it sounds like is the case his dealer might be very well giving him the best advice in getting a small cat stove.

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

Thanks guys. I have looked at propane and really just do not want to use it if I can get around it. Since I am building, I will set up an easy "port" to open and run line through if I change my mind down the road. Current plan is for just a "tiny tank" in the back storage room, next to bathroom, that only runs the tankless hot water for bathroom and kitchen sink.

And yes, could use small amount of wood etc like in the Summit but then that is no different that getting a tiny stove for 1/2 the $$$ and baby sitting it middle of the night and several times a day. That is actually my current "fall back position" #1 if I decide against a small cat stove. But it would be nice to have overnight burns and only be playing fireman a couple times a day, be able to leave the house for a couple hours and not have to start over w/ dead coals and a cold house. I would rather juggle the amount I have to open windows, depending on outside temp/weather, seems much less bother somehow and as I mentioned above, I really like fresh air. After a lot of looking around, my hands down favorite for the tiny stove option would be the one from Steve Gray which is a firebrick lined, steel, secondary burn cube w/ a firebox that is 9.5"wide x 10"deep x 8" tall; he says about 3 - 3 1/2 hours burn time and estimates output at 8000 BTU. So that would likely work fine if I wanted to be more "active" in fire tending.

I do appreciate all the thoughts and ideas!

 

[Hogwildz]

The cat stove is the way to go in your situation, if you must burn. I was merely correcting the misinformed statement your dealer made. Too many dealers will tell you what they want you to hear either due to ignorance of their product(s), or because they want to steer you in a certain direction for a sale. Maybe a smaller OWB with baseboard is something to think about?

 

[GeoffreyLevens]

The cat stove is the way to go in your situation, if you must burn. I was merely correcting the misinformed statement your dealer made. Too many dealers will tell you what they want you to hear either due to ignorance of their product(s), or because they want to steer you in a certain direction for a sale. Maybe a smaller OWB with baseboard is something to think about?

Boy oh boy do I ever get that dealers tell you what they want you to hear i.e. they have the perfect thing you need regardless of whether or not it will work in your situation.

OWB=outdoor wood burner? Have not heard a lot good about them and have heard quite a few people say to avoid them though I really do't know why they said it.

And it is true, ultimately to be comfortable, I may have to give up my hippie romantic fantasy of not using propane, at least unless/until the availability becomes too problematic.

W/ wood it seems to boil down to choice between being a stove nursemaid and maybe being too hot and having to burn w/ windows open...