Part 9 of Mega-Query: Quadra-fire—Doubts, Apologies and Questions

[TruePatriot]

Part 9 of Mega-Query: Quadra-fire—Doubts, Apologies and Questions


Hi all,

The above subhead lists the topics in this section of my Mega-Query: Which Woodstove to Get? series.

Please see this link for the specifications of the house, etc…, should you need to clarify something to answer the following questions. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6812/ Thanks.


My Apologies to Quadra-fire Owners, Retailers and the Mfr., For My Doubts and Questions About the Quadra-fire 5700

For the people still reading (all both of you) I have some special concerns regarding the Quadra-fire 5700--okay, I've got my doubts. And this is going to sound weird, but I am leaning toward the Quadra-fire, despite the fact that I have the worst feeling about this stove, of the whole group!

First, I would like to apologize in advance, because I am ignorant about Quadra-fires, and I have nothing concrete to base my doubts on…but I’m willing to expose my ignorance here, so please don’t be offended—I WANT TO LIKE THIS STOVE! LOL

Allow me to explain: The Quadra-fire 5700’s 3.44 cu.ft. firebox is the biggest of the bunch. And if I measured the “headroom” correctly, and memory serves, I believe there was almost 11” (10 and 11/16”) of headroom in that bad boy! As you know, I’m thinking headroom is important regarding Maximum Burn Time and ease of loading.

However, perhaps it’s because I was an advertising copywriter, briefly, but I have a niggling distrust of the claims made about this stove. Why? You’re gonna laugh, but I base that mostly on the fact that, (as a former copywriter) the company’s name sounds very cheesy to me—I’m sorry, but it just does.

There’s actually another reason, too: Quadra-fire claims “4 Fires = More Heat for Less” in its stoves, which I doubt. Now, assuming just for the moment that I’m right, if this basic claim is just marketing b.s., and they chose to base their company name on it, well, it too gives me a bad feeling about the company as a whole. Just my opinion and if they really do have “four fires” going on, then I’m dead wrong. However, I mean, it’s hard enough for stoves to get a reliable, verified secondary burn, right? Are there really “four fires” in these stoves? So again, if that’s not true, well, it gives me a bad feeling…about their marketing integrity. And it’s a short trip from there to wondering about design and build quality….

Yet I LOVE the N-S loading, the huge headroom (am I right, that it’s almost 11”?), the fact that it’s a step top, and that it’s got that wonderful, enormous, 3.44 cu. ft. firebox.
So, at the risk of insulting the very owners I seek the help from, could someone verify a few things for me?

a) Does this stove really, actually even do a secondary burn? I mean, can you actually see the blue flames, from the gases being driven off down below, burning at the venturies in the secondary burn tubes? I’ve seen this in the Mansfield, and I’ve seen it in some pics on this site, for other models.

Better yet, can someone post for me (or direct me to?) an actual pic of the burn tubes under secondary combustion, in the 5700? It sounds dopey, but watching the secondary combustion through the ceramic glass door is one of the things I’m really looking forward to!

(I would apologize for this last, except that I already know what a bunch of “piros” some of you folks are—j/k--no offense! lol)

b) Can anyone offer any confirmation that the Quads actually burn the smoke in four zones? I mean, like I said, I’d be happy with just a confirmed secondary burn that I could watch through the glass. It’s just that the literature goes on about these four burn zones resulting in “reducing emissions, improving efficiency and increasing the amount of heat transferred to your home” and yet this stove has the highest emissions in the group!???

But in it’s defense, the 5700 is also 10% bigger, in cu.ft., than the next biggest stove (three of these stoves have 3.1 cu.ft. fireboxes, and the smallest, the Napolean, has a 3.0 cu.ft. box). But at 4.13 Gm/hr., the Quad’s emissions are fully 63% higher than, for example, the Lopi Liberty, the cleanest of the bunch at 2.6 Gm/hr. And yet the Liberty’s 3.1 cu.ft. firebox is only 10% smaller than the Quad’s, so why the big discrepancy in emissions?

And again, my concern here is not about whether or not there’s “four fires”—I’m just trying to figure out if the Quadra-fire company is bull******** us in their literature, which I suspect.

c) The brochure states that logs up to 24” can be inserted, but I’m guessing this is E-W and not N-S. What is the maximum length that a long can be inserted N-S?

And again, I hope my suspicions about Quadra-fire are wrong, as their stove meets more of my requirements than any I've found. And I'm sorry if I offended anyone by verbalizing my doubts--that was not my intent. But if I've had such questions, perhaps others have too, you know? And if my doubts are proven groundless, then in the end it could benefit Quadra-fire by reassuring others who may have shared my concerns.

Thanks again. Tune in for the next section, where I badmouth the Harman Stove Company…but without the apologies....

Peter

 

[elkimmeg]

This stove is the biggest in the bunch but you limited your search and did not include the 4+ cu ft fire boxes or the cleanest stoves or the 40 hour claimed burn times

All of which in thes group cannot match

 

[struggle]

a) Does this stove really, actually even do a secondary burn? I mean, can you actually see the blue flames, from the gases being driven off down below, burning at the venturies in the secondary burn tubes? I’ve seen this in the Mansfield, and I’ve seen it in some pics on this site, for other models.

I have the Mansfield which I have used now for 3 weeks and it is truly an awesome stove to have. The secondary burn on ours has been unreal to watch. For me it has become my second TV.

Have you ruled out soapstone for any reason??

Mine is running on a 5.5" flex liner inside of a clay tile lined exterior chimney and works great so far.

There is no doubt the Mansfield will do secondary burn

 

[Corie]

Yes quads do give a nice secondary show. I don't own one, but I've had the pleasure of watching one operate at the local hardware store for a while now. Very very attractive hovering flames out of those tubes.

Also, to squabble over the emissions numbers like you are doing is pointless. Don't bother with it. Pick a stove you like from the bunch based on other factors.

2 grams = 0.004409245 lbs.


You're talking about the differene of two grams like its a monumental failure for the quadrafire. These stoves are fired by humans during these tests, and sometimes the person firing the stove has an effect on the emissions. Sometimes over-stiring the ash bed on the reload sends enough particulate matter up the stack to alter the numbers.

So take those emissions values with a grain of salt.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

you missed a couple stoves, a VC unit which comes in at less than 1 GPH, and our 30-ncp at 3.5 CF firebox that came in in epa testing at 1.63 GPH

 

[BrotherBart]

...and our 30-ncp at 3.5 CF firebox that came in in epa testing at 1.63 GPH

And a nice "unit" it is.

 

[5555555]

My 5700 works great. Lots of secondary burn and a large window to watch it through! I haven't had to clean my glass in a month and there's not a bit of buildup on the glass, even in the corners.

I bought the 5700 over the 4300 based on recommendations that I recieved here. I'm glad I did. It's funny to hear about who large the firebox is.... I switched from an early 80's vintage Blaze King. I think the 5700 would fit inside of it! I could burn some logs in that. Compared to it, the firebox in the 5700 seems pretty small.

Jim

 

[begreen]

How does the fuel consumption and heat output of the 5700 compare with the old Earth Stove?

 

[5555555]

The Quad is better in every way. The only downside is I have to cut my wood longer to utilize the long box and split it smaller to get it in the fire box. On the upside, it uses a lot less wood and is a lot easier to control the temp. The Blaze King probably put out more heat, but tended to overheat the house. It also didn't have a glass front. We've really enjoy seeing the fire.

The other big advantage is that the Quad has a 2" clearance in the back corners, so I built a new slate hearth and put the stove in the corner of the living room. The BK had a much larger clearance requirement, and it used to sit along the main wall in the living room. Becasue of the size of the old stove and clearance from the wall, it used to almost cut the living room into two areas. The Quad has greatly increased the effective size of our living room.

In case it doesn't come across, I really like our new stove!

Jim

 

[ourhouse]

5555555 its good to hear you'r Quad is working great . Do you have any pictures of it?

 

[RonB]

My 5700 works great. Lots of secondary burn and a large window to watch it through! I haven't had to clean my glass in a month and there's not a bit of buildup on the glass, even in the corners.

I bought the 5700 over the 4300 based on recommendations that I recieved here. I'm glad I did. It's funny to hear about who large the firebox is.... I switched from an early 80's vintage Blaze King. I think the 5700 would fit inside of it! I could burn some logs in that. Compared to it, the firebox in the 5700 seems pretty small.

Jim

Hi Jim, How long have you owned the 5700 and how many sq. ft. do you heat with it? I'm deciding between the same two stoves you did. One day I think the 4300 will work and the next day I think I should get the 5700. Any input about your stove would be helpful. Thanks, Ron

 

[stoveguy2esw]

hi ron,
give the "panel" an idea of what you are plannig to heat (sqft, idea of floor plan, etc...)

 

[RonB]

hi ron,
give the "panel" an idea of what you are plannig to heat (sqft, idea of floor plan, etc...)

Thanks for your interest Mike. Some of the guys have already weighed in with their suggestions because I did have a similar post earlier. However, I am happy for more suggestions, reasoning and help.

I have a 30 year old Ranch style home of 1,500 sq. ft. I live in southwest lower Michigan. It is insulated well for its age. I heat entirely with wood. Back up furnace is a forced air heat pump (water to air, not air to air). The stove will be installed in my lower walkout basement (1000 sq. ft.) within 4-5 feet of the forced air furnace in the exact spot where my current stove is. I have a large (2'X2') cold air return that I open and circulate the heat from the stove and basement area to the back bedrooms on the main level as needed during the day. The house also has an open stair well from the basement for natural heat exchange.

I am changing over to a new stove to use less wood and have better emissions and a cleaner chimney. My current stove is a 1980's era Vestal double door step top with cast iron doors and spin air controls (similar to old Timberlines). Only info I could get on the Vestal was that it was their largest stove and could heat 2200 sq. ft. I use good, dry, split hardwood I harvest myself. I typically use about 4.25-4.5 cords per heating season. It's a possibility that the current stove may be too large (even though it must be inefficient). I'm not sure on that point though. I generally have to run the stove where it is 75-77degrees on the main level (where we spend our time). Of course in the basement it runs 80-85 degrees but we don't go down there except to tend the stove. I have never experienced cold weather (even -15 or -20) that the current stove couldn't handle.

I have focused on the Quad brand because of reputation, non-catalytic, up front draft/air controls (not out the side or rear), step top models, and N/S wood loading.
The Step top 4300 has a 2.44 CF box,delivers 70,000 btu max, heats 1,800-2,800sf.
The 5700 has a 3.44CF box, delivers 80,000+btu max and advertised to heat 2000-3500sf.

Perhaps I am trying to fine tune to the exact right size of stove too much?? But it is a large investment that will last 20 yrs. Too large of a stove and I will have to choke it, too small and it will have to run more wide open with short burn times. Who knows anymore?? Ron

 

[5555555]

My 5700 works great. Lots of secondary burn and a large window to watch it through! I haven't had to clean my glass in a month and there's not a bit of buildup on the glass, even in the corners.

I bought the 5700 over the 4300 based on recommendations that I recieved here. I'm glad I did. It's funny to hear about who large the firebox is.... I switched from an early 80's vintage Blaze King. I think the 5700 would fit inside of it! I could burn some logs in that. Compared to it, the firebox in the 5700 seems pretty small.

Jim

Hi Jim, How long have you owned the 5700 and how many sq. ft. do you heat with it? I'm deciding between the same two stoves you did. One day I think the 4300 will work and the next day I think I should get the 5700. Any input about your stove would be helpful. Thanks, Ron

Ron,

I got the stove in December. Our house is a 3,800 square foot log home. It's three levels, and with the exception of the basement, it's a relatively open plan design. The stove is on the main level and doesn't do much to heat the basement, but it will heat the rest of the house. Even when we had some -20°F temperatures in January, the stove kept the top two floors of the house toasty. We usually run the stove 24/7.

Earth - I'll take some pics and post them. Thanks for recommending the 5700!. I haven't regreted the purchase once.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Corie]

Jim, can you talk burn times? I'm wondering how long a firebox full of hardwood will burn?

 

[5555555]

Cory,

I wish I could get a firebox full of hardwood! Unfortunatley, living in Montana, the best wood I can get is usually, Doug Fir. I also burn a lot of lodgepole pine and some spruce. I usually load the stove with larger splits at 10 pm or so and char them before reducing air. Even at 7 or 8 am there's usually enough coals left to just rake them around, open the air up, and add some splits to revive the fire. I do adjust the split size and type of wood to get the size fire, amount of heat and burn length that I want.

I'd say that the stove is defineately our primary source of wood, but occaisionally, our gas furnace will kick on, especially if we're late getting home from work.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Corie]

Thanks a lot Jim. Sorry about being insensitive regarding the hardwoods


I can always mail ya a box full, for those extra cold nights.

 

[5555555]

A big truck box? ;-) I'm in!

I enjoy playing with fire.... but, back on topic, I enjoy playing with wood type, split size loading patterns and loading amount to get the desired output, in terms of heating and length of burn. I've been on the lookout for some hardwood because it would be interestng to see how much difference there would be to the softwood that I burn.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Corie]

I think I have some shagbark hickory. I'd love to send you a twenty pound box worth, just so you could experience that stove on a full load of good hardwood. I think you'd be plesantly surprised.

 

[5555555]

Ron,

I bought the Quad fan for the 5700. We've never needed it or used it. If you're considering it, I'd save your money. We've got ceiling fans and they do a pretty good job of helping to distribute the heat in the top two levels.

Jim

 

[RonB]

Ron,

I bought the Quad fan for the 5700. We've never needed it or used it. If you're considering it, I'd save your money. We've got ceiling fans and they do a pretty good job of helping to distribute the heat in the top two levels.

Jim

Thanks for the tip Jim. As it is I plan to use the furnace blower to cycle the warm air from the stove like I currently do. By the way, sounds like you have a beautiful home! Is that 1900sf per level? What is the foot print sf of the house? Helps me to visualize it better.

Ron

 

[elkimmeg]

Ron I hate to tell you but your location violates various codes like proximity of fuel burning eg quipment. then ther is the issue of having a return air vent within 10' of the applainces already competting for combustion air. Even if a stove were not there the return air within 10' of the burner is a definite code violation. No inspector in their right mind shoul pass that setup.
My suggestion is to loose that vent and provide outside aire to the furnace. Why would you submit your familly to the potential dangers of that setup? Do you realize the dangers?

 

[RonB]

Ron I hate to tell you but your location violates various codes like proximity of fuel burning eg quipment. then ther is the issue of having a return air vent within 10' of the applainces already competting for combustion air. Even if a stove were not there the return air within 10' of the burner is a definite code violation. No inspector in their right mind shoul pass that setup.
My suggestion is to loose that vent and provide outside aire to the furnace. Why would you submit your familly to the potential dangers of that setup? Do you realize the dangers?

Please be more precise. What specific codes are you referring to. Slow down and please make yourself more clear. I will then try to follow up and check appropriate codes. Why would I want to provide outside air to a heat pump?? Is that what you meant? Are you a heating cooling or building inspector?

 

[TMonter]

He's talking about the intake for the furnace return air, not the combustion air Elk. Modern furnaces automatically use outside air so it would not be competing for combustion air. He's simply circulating air from the cold air intake on the furnace which has been already heated and using the fan on the furnace to circulate it. He's basically using the furnace as a hot air distributor. I would expect he usually leaves the furnace in fan only mode for this.

What he is describing is not a code violation. If he wanted to be 100% safe, just put a OAK on the Quad and he'd be fine.

 

[BrotherBart]

Well color me confused. Is it a furnace or is it a heat pump?