PE Alderlea T5 (continued, first full season, page3.)

[Woody Stover]

Glass looks pretty dirty in that first pic

our glass never looks like that

I think I may have found out why the glass was picking up some gunk..I started cleaning it with a scouring pad (ceramic stove-top safe) and 50/50 distilled vinegar and water, and the gunk was really stubborn. Then I noticed a weird pattern on the glass. I think something may have been deposited on the glass during assembly, or something. I scrubbed the living daylights out of the glass and finally got it pretty clean. I may hit it again before the next fire, just to make sure, but the glass looked good after last night's fire, just a couple of very thin strips of slight discoloration up the edges of the glass on both sides.
I finally remembered to look at where the stove temp went the other night, when I thought it was running pretty well, and low. Tin foil marker indicated about 500, so I was happy with that burn. Here's a pic of yesterday's load, Silver Maple (I think that round on top is Elm.) That fire lit off the secondary early again, and when I looked at the stove top meter, it had again peaked around 500. I may yet get the hang of this thing!

 

[Woody Stover]

Glass looks pretty dirty in that first pic - Is it sub par seasoned wood

FWIW, our glass never looks like that unless the wood is right up against the glass or poorly seasoned.

Hard to say for sure how much of the glass gunk was attracted by whatever was left on the glass at the plant, but I think you guys were right that those Ash chunks pictured above may not have been totally dry.
Here's how the glass looks now, after a couple more burns..manufacturing residue cleaned off the glass, and dry wood. Not bad at all.

I burned the stove again yesterday afternoon. I partially loaded the box, then put on top a half-round of Silver Maple that was splintered on one end, and nestled a SC chunk into the splinters. I lit it, then went back outside to split some more of the Ash I had brought over there, going back inside every ten minutes or so to see how the fire was developing. The mistake I made was that there was maybe a 3" air space under the Silver Maple starter split. When it got going good, and burning on the bottom, it ignited all the other wood too quick, and then there was too much gassing going on by the time I checked the fire again. It ended up going to 700 and no doubt her house was a little warm by the time she got back home. If I had been inside watching the fire the whole time, I probably could have nipped it in the bud and kept stove temp down around 600 or less. Yeah, I'm screwing up here and there, but I'm having fun doing it!

 

[Woody Stover]

Next fire try to turning down the air sooner, use thicker splits, packed tighter. .

What happens if you load dense wood that is slow to catch, like Black Locust? Will that keep the burn in check at the beginning, as you get the stove up to temp?

 

[Hogwildz]

Yes, It should slow things down.
Larger splits will do the same also.

 

[Woody Stover]

Wow, every day is different with this stove. I thought my main worry was getting too much wood burning on startup, and the stove going 700+. That said, the last couple of burns have gone well, burning clean and temp topping out around 600-650.
But last night, with colder temps arriving, I was a bit concerned that draft would be stronger and the load might run a bit hotter and shorter than I wanted. So I started cutting air pretty early, as soon as I saw signs of a small amount of secondary burn. Well, apparently I got too aggressive because I ended up crashing the secondary burn, and the stove top stalled at <400 and the flue was only 230. I had to open the air up to get some flame, but I had to leave it with her and I'm not sure I ever got the secondary burning again. Might have been a dirty burn, I guess I'll know when I see how high the marker went on the stove meter. Sheesh, I didn't even think it was going to be possible for me to crash a load with this stove! Sure, I could over-shoot in the other direction to guarantee the burn, but I'm trying to see if I can burn less wood and send less heat up the flue.
No pic, but here's the load I had; Four Red Elm half-splits, nested together to form two 5" rounds loaded in the corners. Then I had a slab of White Oak, 3.5x6.5x16, standing on edge in the middle. In the Vs formed by the slab and the two rounds I dropped a couple starters and kindling, with a couple small starter splits. I guess that with the White Oak and the "rounds," the wood just wasn't catching as well as I thought, and I cut too much air too soon. If she's home I'll head over there now and we'll try again, with different wood in a different configuration. I'm hoping I can have a bit of control over the burn, once I get better at visually assessing how the load is catching and when and how much to cut the air. Even if I got that control, I don't know if she ever could. When she runs the stove, 700+ loads may be all that can be done.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

At this time of year, you're still starting a new fire every day, right? Top down?

 

[begreen]

Go by flue temp. When the flue temp (probe) is about 400º start closing down the air till the flames start getting lazy, but not snuffed out. On our stove this is about 50-60% closed at this time of the year.

 

[SpaceBus]

Wow, every day is different with this stove. I thought my main worry was getting too much wood burning on startup, and the stove going 700+. That said, the last couple of burns have gone well, burning clean and temp topping out around 600-650.
But last night, with colder temps arriving, I was a bit concerned that draft would be stronger and the load might run a bit hotter and shorter than I wanted. So I started cutting air pretty early, as soon as I saw signs of a small amount of secondary burn. Well, apparently I got too aggressive because I ended up crashing the secondary burn, and the stove top stalled at <400 and the flue was only 230. I had to open the air up to get some flame, but I had to leave it with her and I'm not sure I ever got the secondary burning again. Might have been a dirty burn, I guess I'll know when I see how high the marker went on the stove meter. Sheesh, I didn't even think it was going to be possible for me to crash a load with this stove! Sure, I could over-shoot in the other direction to guarantee the burn, but I'm trying to see if I can burn less wood and send less heat up the flue.
No pic, but here's the load I had; Four Red Elm half-splits, nested together to form two 5" rounds loaded in the corners. Then I had a slab of White Oak, 3.5x6.5x16, standing on edge in the middle. In the Vs formed by the slab and the two rounds I dropped a couple starters and kindling, with a couple small starter splits. I guess that with the White Oak and the "rounds," the wood just wasn't catching as well as I thought, and I cut too much air too soon. If she's home I'll head over there now and we'll try again, with different wood in a different configuration. I'm hoping I can have a bit of control over the burn, once I get better at visually assessing how the load is catching and when and how much to cut the air. Even if I got that control, I don't know if she ever could. When she runs the stove, 700+ loads may be all that can be done.

You will get used to it. I almost closed mine down too quick last night on a full load and had to rekindle it. Cold starts will just be like this sometimes. When 24/7 burning starts this will be much easier since the stove will already be hot.

 

[Woody Stover]

Meter reading from the previous night got back up to 500. Hard to say if the secondary started burning again or if that was just heat from flame on the logs.
We lit another fire last night, and it went pretty well. Loaded two big Walnut chunks in the corners, a White Oak in the center with a couple left-over coals on top, and several smaller splits on top of the Walnut chunks or the coals. We kept a close eye on how much wood was catching, and kept the load under control while still keeping enough fire to get secondary and heat the stove up. Load peaked a little over 700, and I opened the trivets, which seems to bleed off 30-50 degrees from the stove top temp. Good burn.

At this time of year, you're still starting a new fire every day, right? Top down?

Yes, up 'til now we have been lighting one load a day on days we decide to burn, top-down starts.
She didn't have anything going on until this afternoon so we figured we would reload the stove this morning on coals left from last night, and we did that about 6 AM. We both went out to select the wood, and this time we didn't get any big chunks, just a bunch of smaller semi-rounds. We shoved the coals to the center/back and were able to pack those splits in without many exposed edges. We kept a close eye on how the fire was progressing and kept the load under control. When I left, the plume was getting pretty clean, secondary firing well and stove temp was 400+ and rising. The air was completely closed, as was the flue damper.

Go by flue temp. When the flue temp (probe) is about 400º start closing down the air till the flames start getting lazy, but not snuffed out. On our stove this is about 50-60% closed at this time of the year.

It sounds like you have more control over the air than I do. We started cutting air when flue temp was about 300. Granted that the smaller splits in this load took off faster.
What flue temps are you seeing, once you are cruising the stove, but still with plenty of wood left in the load?
OK, I just went back over there to check on it. When she got back from walking her dog, she opened the trivets since the top was at 700, and I told her we really don't want the stove getting much hotter than that.
I should have got a pic of the initial load, but this is what's left, two hours in. It might have been 1/2-2/3 of a load. The flame is somewhat lazy, but the secondary is blazing and a lot of heat is going up the flue..470 on the surface meter. The load is almost to the coaling stage already. I feel that at this point in the burn (as well as earlier,) I should be able to run the stove cleanly at a slower burn rate, so I'll be looking into correcting that situation..

 

[SpaceBus]

I wouldn't worry about the stove hitting 700-750 peak surface temp, as long as it doesn't do that for several hours. I'm starting a fire or two a day so I'm cruising through kindling and my smaller pieces. If you are just doing one fire a day, don't worry about long low fires. Just do a small short hot fire with small stuff and be done for the day. I loaded my stove full last night since we don't have all the insulation back up yet. With my stove a full load is easier to control, but makes way more heat than we usually need lately.

 

[Woody Stover]

I wouldn't worry about the stove hitting 700-750 peak surface temp, as long as it doesn't do that for several hours. I'm starting a fire or two a day so I'm cruising through kindling and my smaller pieces. If you are just doing one fire a day, don't worry about long low fires. Just do a small short hot fire with small stuff

If I had a full load in there, I think it could go 700+ for several hours. We're supposed to get closer to normal temps, so one smaller fire a day should suffice. I was glad to see that the draft didn't seem to get a lot stronger when temps outside dropped. It may not be amplified as much on only 15' of stack.
Some extra draft might be welcome though, if she wants to throw in a split or two on the fly. I was thinking of doing that the other night, but thought I smelled a little smoke when I opened the door a good ways, so I bailed out and just closed the door. I wasn't being too careful, so the jury is still out on whether topping off the load will be possible without smoke escaping. The stove has no bypass and the exhaust exits the top of the box right behind the door.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

15ft isnt enough to dampen that stove, lol. It's got the easy breathing lungs of a marathon runner.

 

[begreen]

Meter reading from the previous night got back up to 500.

What does this mean? Stovetop, stovepipe, probe thermometer?

650-700º stovetop temp is pretty common for us on a full reload. I see that almost daily unless I load up with some extra-thick splits that take longer to outgas and get rolling.

 

[Woody Stover]

15ft isnt enough to dampen that stove, lol. It's got the easy breathing lungs of a marathon runner.

I don't think you have a tall stack in your cabin. Can you load a couple more splits when you've already got a load burning, without smoking out the room?

 

[Woody Stover]

What does this mean? Stovetop, stovepipe, probe thermometer?

Sorry I wasn't clear..500 was what the stove top got back up to a couple nights ago, when I crashed the load and lost secondary. I opened the air back up before I left and got flame on the wood, but I can't say if I ever got secondary back. I would think so; From what I've seen, secondary starts working when stove temps get over 300 on a new load.
I'm guessing that even though we both have an Alderlea, your stove may run a lot differently due to your EBT, vs. the T5's direct-linked secondary air.

 

[begreen]

Sorry I wasn't clear..500 was what the stove top got back up to a couple nights ago, when I crashed the load and lost secondary. I opened the air back up before I left and got flame on the wood, but I can't say if I ever got secondary back. I would think so; From what I've seen, secondary starts working when stove temps get over 300 on a new load.
I'm guessing that even though we both have an Alderlea, your stove may run a lot differently due to your EBT, vs. the T5's direct-linked secondary air.

I get secondaries as low as 200-225º SST, but the T6 has more mass. It's the firebox temps that determine when secondary combustion starts. A cold stovetop will lag due to the well-insulated firebox. That's why flue temp is a better guide.

 

[Woody Stover]

It's the firebox temps that determine when secondary combustion starts. A cold stovetop will lag due to the well-insulated firebox. That's why flue temp is a better guide.

Yes, that makes sense. When I crashed the secondary, STT was in the 300s, and falling, flue was 230 or so. The silver zone on the meter is marked 230 at the bottom, 475 at the top, you get no numbers other than those two so you have to guesstimate.
Now, other times when I've had 230+ on the flue, the secondaries can be firing well, probably due to more heat in the box from flaming wood, as opposed to the smoldering wood I had when it crashed, but flue was also 230. So the flue meter also has some lag in relation to conditions in the box. Seems the best feedback we can get is from looking at the fire and having a feel for what's happening in there regarding temp, gassing, etc. I'm getting a better handle on when to cut air, and how much. It's a learning curve for her and I, no doubt! I think we'll have a good feel for it by the time winter gets here.
Hey, I need to go look at the stove now..she mighta tossed in more wood before she left!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I don't think you have a tall stack in your cabin. Can you load a couple more splits when you've already got a load burning, without smoking out the room?

I have (3) 4ft sections of class A sitting on a telescoping single wall attachment. From stove to ceiling is 4ft of single wall that rides over the telescope.

By the performance of the stove, the chimney could be much shorter. Code says otherwise though.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I get secondaries as low as 200-225º SST, but the T6 has more mass. It's the firebox temps that determine when secondary combustion starts. A cold stovetop will lag due to the well-insulated firebox. That's why flue temp is a better guide.

I start cutting down air when the flames start licking the baffle reliably and I see hints of second aries.

 

[begreen]

It's a learning curve for her and I, no doubt! I think we'll have a good feel for it by the time winter gets here.
Hey, I need to go look at the stove now..she mighta tossed in more wood before she left!

Yes, visual cues can also help, but only if you are sitting and watch the stove. Most of us multitask and get involved in something else while waiting.

Put her on here and let her drive the questions.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yes, visual cues can also help, but only if you sit and watch the stove. Most of us multitask and get involved in something else while waiting.

Put her on here and let her drive the questions.

Indeed.

Sounds like someone wants to run it like a cat stove
If I try to drive my wife's car (high strung four cylinder) like my truck (Cummins) I would get creamed pulling into traffic from short shifting. If my wife tried to drive my truck like her car, I think the crank would leave the block.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Lack of torque drives me crazy when driving my wife's car. I have to push the gas pedal too far down to get it to move. I think my truck's drivetrain in my wife's Honda would be a hoot!

 

[SpaceBus]

Lack of torque drives me crazy when driving my wife's car. I have to push the gas pedal too far down to get it to move. I think my truck's drivetrain in my wife's Honda would be a hoot!

In my case it's a turbo four cylinder, so once the compressor gets going the car is awesome. There is about no power out of boost though.

 

[Woody Stover]

Sounds like someone wants to run it like a cat stove

She had a Dutchwest cat previously, but we both know it's not gonna run like a cat stove; There has to be a higher burn rate in order to burn cleanly. But to use your analogy, when driving a vehicle, you have an accelerator. If you get off the pedal, you slow down; You don't have to drive just below redline every time you start the engine. I don't think all secondary stoves are this uncontrollable. My brother, for instance, runs a Regency F2400, and can slow it down by cutting the air if he would need to. Have you got some degree of control over the Morso burn rate? I realize that most of the control of total heat output is going come from varying load size, but a bit more control over the immediate fire would be nice. I mean, you aren't going to get a perfect start every time..sometimes you have smaller splits to use up, or you are gonna get a little too much wood burning, and need to reel it back in. That's when some control would come in handy. What happens when you run this stove on 25' of stack, instead of 15'??
She burned a load last night, and it went pretty well for her, as far as I know. She had some bigger Red Oak chunks I brought in for the load. She didn't reset my stove top meter marker, but she said she cut a little too much air and had to open it up to get secondaries again. A couple of those Oak splits might have been slowed down by a little surface moisture..I grabbed them out of a stack crash I'm picking up, that got rained on a couple times. I figured that if I've gotta pick it up, I might as well separate out the big splits and give them to her.

Put her on here and let her drive the questions.

I'm not sure she has many questions. I'm trying to learn about the secondary way of burning for my own sake. If I can impress upon her the importance of not over-firing the stove, and give her some tips to that end, that's my top priority for her. If I can figure out how to burn cleanly at a slightly lower rate than redline, and relay that to her, maybe she can heat using a little less wood (that I will have to get.)
She's supposed to reset the paper clip on the stove top meter, so we'll see how she does tonight. It's only going down to 38..she'd better go light on the load or it may get a bit roasty in there.

 

[begreen]

Both of you need to go by the flue temp and not the stovetop temp. She is unlikely to overfire the stove. Start turning down the air when the temp is around 400ºF (the T in Best on the Condar?). Top down burn on a half-load of wood should burn cleanly and keep from getting the stove over 550-600F.