PE Summit Insert orderd today woohoo!!!!!!!!

[Hogwildz]

Well I stopped at the dealertoday, ordered up my PE Summit insert. He said should be in in about 4 days to a week. I am excited and feel completely rock solid about my decision on the Summit. Thanks to Roospike and a couple other kind folks. Spoke with Simpson today about their Dura Liner. Gonna go with their double wall rigid made for relining, no external insulation needed. And their flex from rigid to insert. Do I need to insulate the flex from insert up to the rigid? I was hoping to capture some heat from the liner up to the smoke shelf in the surrounding block & brick for radiant heat from the masonry.
Anyways, I thank all you fine folks that helped me make my decision and do it feeling confidently. I will try and take photos of the old insert removal, and the steps of the new installation to completion. Of course now I impatiently wait the call that my Summit is in.
I also need to extend the hearth of course. Nothing can be too easy. I have 12-1/2" now, Ill prolly go another 16" out from there by 4' across. Maybe even lay tile or slate myself. I do love doing this stuff. Feels good when all done and knowing done myself and money saved.

One more question. What type of sheet metal did any of you guys use to make block off plate? Would galvanized be a nono? Aluminum melt? or must it also be stainless steel? Where does one get the insulation for on top of block off? Can fiberglass be used?

 

[Roospike]

Sounds like your the "man with the plain". Take lots of pictures , you'll only install it once. I had my camera ready but forgot to use it. lol

If you post pictures of your hearth now maybe we could get a brain storm of ideas for the extinction and you can go from there.
Congrads on the stove , you'll love it.

 

[BrotherBart]

Galvanized is fine for the block off plate. Look in the ductwork aisle at Lowes. A sheet is around five bucks.

If you want to make Elk's day. Point out that the Summit insert installation instructions neither show nor say anything about a block off plate with a full liner.

<ducking under the desk>

 

[begreen]

Hey Bart, new avatar again. Is that big baby in it's new home? No golden glow in the east, but it's pretty stormy here. Pictures and report coming soon I hope.

 

[elkimmeg]

Do I need to insulate the flex from insert up to the rigid?

no thats why you are installing the block off plate,, to capture heat from the stove and the connector back into the room and not let it go up the chimney

What type of sheet metal did any of you guys use to make block off plate? Would galvanized be a nono? Aluminum melt? or must it also be stainless steel? Where does one get the insulation for on top of block off? Can fiberglass be used?

any ridgid non combustiable material will work including cement board Galvanized is fine Alumium fine but atleast 24 gage flashing thickness id too thin.

Insulation above the damper plate is optional but it serves a purpose of preventing heat from escaping up the chimney. Fiberglas will melt if contace is made with the single wall liner pipe

Many use left over liner insulation. Let me expand this situation a bit. This being my theory not code.

If one was to do a good job of sealing the top plate and liner penetration. then do an equally good job sealing the damper block off plate. does that not create a dead air space between both plates? Is not dead air space a form of insulation?

Other hints RTV caulk is used up top around the vent and plate heat is not a big issue there. RTV caulk can be used to seal around the damper plate but not between the liner and damper plate cut out hole .Too much heat there and the caulk could catch fire. Use Draft sealant 136 caulk gasket cement, furnace cement, For that final sealing. Remember the damper plate can be assembled using multi pieces caulked and screwed.

Good choice for your stove. We all hope your installation goes smoothly

 

[Hogwildz]

Sounds like your the "man with the plain". Take lots of pictures , you'll only install it once. I had my camera ready but forgot to use it. lol

If you post pictures of your hearth now maybe we could get a brain storm of ideas for the extinction and you can go from there.
Congrads on the stove , you'll love it.

Here is the hearth. Just so you ALL know. I bought the house back in June like this. I DID NOT choose this color scheme LMAO.
Eventually, I plan on doing a cultured stone over the brick. I ain't a fan a brick, but then they went ahead and painted it. Theres glittery stuff all in it too, sheesh.
And they painted the flagstone hearth & mantel edges a metallic copper color. What a shame in my opinion. I'll fix that up in time.

 

[begreen]

Oy! You sure my brother didn't decorate that for you? This will make for some great before and after pictures.

 

[Hogwildz]

Oy! You sure my brother didn't decorate that for you? This will make for some great before and after pictures.

LOL< THAT is why I was sure to point out, I DID NOT decorate this LOL. I am more a rustic type guy LOL. Once i get settled in and get the cultured stone over that, It will be nice. I want to go with the flat loose laid stone wall look. no mortar showing. Even thinking maybe a couple castle like small tower looking standouts with lighting in them. Not sure on that, but def doing the stone over that hideous painted brick Not sure what I'll do with the mantle & hearth. Almost tempted to sandblast back to the nice flagstone color. I'd love to get a nice big wooden mantle cut out to slip over the existing flagstone. But weight & clearance would most likely be an issue.

 

[Hogwildz]

Do I need to insulate the flex from insert up to the rigid?

no thats why you are installing the block off plate,, to capture heat from the stove and the connector back into the room and not let it go up the chimney

What type of sheet metal did any of you guys use to make block off plate? Would galvanized be a nono? Aluminum melt? or must it also be stainless steel? Where does one get the insulation for on top of block off? Can fiberglass be used?

any ridgid non combustiable material will work including cement board Galvanized is fine Alumium fine but atleast 24 gage flashing thickness id too thin.

Insulation above the damper plate is optional but it serves a purpose of preventing heat from escaping up the chimney. Fiberglas will melt if contace is made with the single wall liner pipe

Many use left over liner insulation. Let me expand this situation a bit. This being my theory not code.

If one was to do a good job of sealing the top plate and liner penetration. then do an equally good job sealing the damper block off plate. does that not create a dead air space between both plates? Is not dead air space a form of insulation?

Other hints RTV caulk is used up top around the vent and plate heat is not a big issue there. RTV caulk can be used to seal around the damper plate but not between the liner and damper plate cut out hole .Too much heat there and the caulk could catch fire. Use Draft sealant 136 caulk gasket cement, furnace cement, For that final sealing. Remember the damper plate can be assembled using multi pieces caulked and screwed.



Good choice for your stove. We all hope your installation goes smoothly

Ok great info. But, do I need to insulate the flex from insert to where it meets rigid above smoke shelf? I'd rather have this heat radiating through the masonry if acceptable?

 

[Hogwildz]

Galvanized is fine for the block off plate. Look in the ductwork aisle at Lowes. A sheet is around five bucks.

If you want to make Elk's day. Point out that the Summit insert installation instructions neither show nor say anything about a block off plate with a full liner.

<ducking under the desk>

LOL, instigator. I'm still green and fairly new here. I ain't busting no balls till I'm a lil more established and settled in.

 

[ourhouse]

Congrats on the new stove and don't forget the Pics.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Many use left over liner insulation. Let me expand this situation a bit. This being my theory not code.


If one was to do a good job of sealing the top plate and liner penetration. then do an equally good job sealing the damper block off plate. does that not create a dead air space between both plates? Is not dead air space a form of insulation?

This is my theory as well, and I use it. Good that you are using insulated double wall all the way up, should work well. I have uninsulated flex, 20' but the damper is blocked with a blocking plate and insulation(I bought the kit, made life easy), and the chimney is capped as well. Theory being that with the top and bottom sealed, some heat will build up in there, and help draft. Who knows, works well though. Good luck with your new stove... and PLEASE cover that painted brick with something! My eyes!

-- Mike

 

[Willhound]

Ok great info. But, do I need to insulate the flex from insert to where it meets rigid above smoke shelf? I’d rather have this heat radiating through the masonry if acceptable?

In my opinion, no. In fact I would be a little leary about having insulation up against the flex where it exits the insert at top temperatures.

My Summit install for the liner went like this:

3 1/2 or 4 feet of flex from the collar on the insert up past the smoke shelf to the first section of rigid liner. Rigid liner in 3 foot sections up the existing masonry chimney tile liner and up past the shoulder of the chimney about 12 inches, and then the cap was installed. All joints between flex and solid and solid to solid liner were riveted at three points around the pipe. The flex was solidly attached to the insert collar with the three stainless steel machine screws. High temperature bat insulation was pushed down around the liner from the top of the chimney to a depth of about 5 feet (what we could reach with a broom handle). The top flashing for the liner/cap was sealed to the shoulder of the chimney using high temp RTV sealant.

The entire liner including flex was put together first, lowered down the chimney from the top. One guy attached the flex to the collar of the insert and pushed the insert back into place while the other guy guided the top of the liner back up the center of the chimney from the top and kept some tension on it so the flex didn't crimp when we pushed the insert back. Went like a breeze.

My local code does not require a block off plate if using a full liner, and I don't feel that it is missed. I think that sealing the top flashing, thus creating the dead air space the Elk mentions, as well as the five feet of insulation bats adequately maintains enough heat to keep my Summit drawing just fine, regardless of outside temps, and in the winter time here it regularly drops below -40.
I should mention that my masonry chimney is external from ground level up, as the original fireplace is located in a family room that is partly below grade.

Finally, CONGRAT'S Man! You're finally a fellow "Summit Junkie"!
We'll teach you the secret handshake at a later date, and after a while you might even get clued in as to how to un-lock the "mystical" properties of the Summit. All hail P.E.......

Okay, gotta go, I'm scaring myself now......





Willhound

 

[Hogwildz]

Ok, I have the liner set in my mind now. Uninsulated flex from insert through smoke shelf to rigid. I'm thinking maybe 30 degree elbow to make flex to insert hookup a lil easier than straight onto insert, they also have a 30 degree adapter for flex to insert. I will know bettter when I get the old insert out and see what pathway I have to work with.I will do a block off with insualtion over for fire safety. And insualtion up top down to whatever feet I can reach. Rigid is already internally insualted between layers, but Ill still insualte up top to reduce draft from around outside rigid,and to help center & reduce movement of rigid. Then top plate & cap onto the rigid up top. I know its a lil more expensive, but I want the peace of mind, the ease of cleaning, and better to overdo than under do. As Elk says, better safe than sorry.