PE Summit operating properly?

[brownsl]

We had a PE Summit insert installed shortly before Thanksgiving and I loved it at first but I have become a bit disenchanted with it lately. I hope it is more operating error than just the way it is. The biggest annoyance I find is emptying out the 'ash'. We run it constantly and I empty out the ash every couple of days. However, it is not full of ash but small pieces (chunks) of wood. It seems to be a waste discarding this wood. My only alternative is to let it burn itself out over 12 hours or so and then it is full of ash. But the house is cold by then. Is this the way it is supposed to work? Also, I noticed once I clean out most of the ash it burns very well for a couple of loads and then the performance goes down as it begins to fill up. Is this because the fresh air intake is becoming blocked? The first couple of loads I can get the house up to about 73-74F but after those loads it only reaches the upper 60s. This is the temperature in the kitchen (20 feet away). I have read the manual and it is not very helpful with respect to operating the insert. Is there a recommended operating procedure for the insert?

Also, I bought a thermometer to monitor the burn temperature and the only place to put it is on top. I am not sure this gives me an accurate reading especially if I have the fan on and it blows right over the thermometer.


Thanks for any advice.

Shawn

 

[karri0n]

How are you operating the stove?

Here are some suggestions.

1. Load the firebox full of wood. If you orient the logs east-west(log ends going left to right), you will get a longer burn time but a bit less heat output. North-south(logs pointing front to back) will get you a much higher heat output, but a shorter burn time.

2. Light the kindling or firestarter, and keep the primary air fully open until the flames are big and bright. Start slowly lowering the air control once the fire is deinitely going strong, until you have it most of the way closed.

3. When the flames have subsided and you have burned down to all coals, rake the coals to thefron of the firebox, into a line going from left to right. Load the firebox full of wood again, and open the primary air fully. Once the wood load is going strong, start backing the primary air again as in step 2.

Your thermometer placement sounds pretty good. what temps are you getting out of it?

You may not have fully dried wood. where did you get your wood from, what type is it, and how long has it been seasoned?

Is your chimney lined with a full liner all the way to the top of the chimney?

 

[begreen]

I've read this before, some people see a marked difference with a lot of ash in the stove. I haven't notice this yet. However, that doesn't mean it's not happening in your stove. I'm wondering if the ash bed insulates the firebrick and affects the heating of the EBT?

To help with the coals, as the fire dies down, rake the coals to the front and center of the firebox. Close the door and let it burn with wide-open air for about 30 minutes. Then refill the stove.

Some folks use an ash strainer to save the coals. It's called a KoalKeeper ( http://www.koalkeeper.com/ ). These look like a regular ash shovel, but they have a slotted back instead of a solid one. Lehmans sells them. And someone here posted that they found a great big commercial strainer spoon at a commercial restaurant supply (perplexed?).

 

[crazy_dan]

how is your wood? I know it is cliché but I notice if my wood is not as dry as i like i get more little chunks. mine operates similar to how you are describing yours.

 

[RAY_PA]

place the thermom on the front-far right-above the hinges.....see what temps you are running and how things are working. I have good luck with raking the coals to the front and tossing 2 small splits on with the air wide open, about 30 mintues of good heat and it burns the coals down nice. However, durnig this serious cold snap, I have been tossing out a good amount of coals to make room for large splits to fit.

 

[rg500930]

i made a little sifter to separate the coals.i posted a pic somewhere here.but lately when im lazy and i have alot of coals.i have a steel container about 2 gallons in size with a good sealing lid.i fill it up and put the lid on.with the sealed lid the coals stop burning.and im going to use the coals in the BBQ this summer.i hope they work out and taste ok

 

[ken999]

Ray nailed it...make sure the air vents in the bottom front are clear, rake the coals to the front and burn a few small pieces on top of the coal pile with the air opened up to H. I can only get 4-6 days without shoveling out the ash.

That's my nightly routine...burn down the pile from the all day stoking in the evening to make room for the long duration nightime burn.

With this cold weather, I turn up the oil to 64-66 at night and just let it do it's thing...it's too cold to fight with the Summit alone. Anything above 0 for lows and I'm GTG, but this -15-20 is tough.

 

[begreen]

Wise move ken. The stove shouldn't be thought of as a 100% solution in extreme weather. Best to use the furnace/boiler when it make sense.

 

[ken999]

Well...to be truthfull, it was a matter of sleep.

I tried fighting it, stoking at 10-11, then geting up at 2-3 to stoke again...then getting up for work at 5-6 to a chilly house...???...why bother? I was beat from no sleep all the time.

I just bought a CB e 2300...I look foward to packing it full at 9, then getting a good nights rest on my own firewood.

'till then, I'm going to relax and burn some oil to get sleep.

 

[Ken45]

Wise move ken. The stove shouldn't be thought of as a 100% solution in extreme weather. Best to use the furnace/boiler when it make sense.

Hate the thought of the heat pump coming on at zero degrees But we do have a pellet stove that's been running to help out.

I have not been impressed with the pellet stove but it does make a nice supplement for the wood stove, especially with the thermostat control.

I'm thinking for next year to get the old wood furnace chimney fixed and run it on the real cold spells. We've only hit zero so far this year but I remember years when we didn't get above zero for two weeks.

 

[rg500930]

i havent turned on my furnace once this winter.i wanted to see how the summit would do with this cold snap we've been having.here it went down to around -30c or -22f.the basement stayed nice and warm(were the summit is) the main floor did dip down to the low to mid 60f 16c at night.but we usually dont get these temps and the hole house is usually in the 70s.and im getting very long burn times when the temp outside is say -5c to -10c.easily get 12 hours.believe it or not i loaded up my stove one night with elm at 1am at 5pm the next day the stove was almost at 300f.now putting in the summit was a nice upgrade but the biggest upgrade was sealing and insulating the house.and a bonus is you dont get cold spots around the house cause the heat stays in and transfers around the house.sorry a little off topic

 

[brownsl]

How are you operating the stove?

Here are some suggestions.

1. Load the firebox full of wood. If you orient the logs east-west(log ends going left to right), you will get a longer burn time but a bit less heat output. North-south(logs pointing front to back) will get you a much higher heat output, but a shorter burn time.

2. Light the kindling or firestarter, and keep the primary air fully open until the flames are big and bright. Start slowly lowering the air control once the fire is deinitely going strong, until you have it most of the way closed.

3. When the flames have subsided and you have burned down to all coals, rake the coals to thefron of the firebox, into a line going from left to right. Load the firebox full of wood again, and open the primary air fully. Once the wood load is going strong, start backing the primary air again as in step 2.

Your thermometer placement sounds pretty good. what temps are you getting out of it?

You may not have fully dried wood. where did you get your wood from, what type is it, and how long has it been seasoned?

Is your chimney lined with a full liner all the way to the top of the chimney?

Sounds like I am operating it correctly as I am doing steps 1-3. I did not know the difference between N-S and E-W placement of the wood. I actually moved the thermometer to the upper right front of the stove (per the suggestion below) and I am now getting a good measurement I think as I am always in the burn zone (according to the thermometer) 300-500 F. I got my wood from a local guy and he stated it was ash. I do not know if this is true or not. He stated the wood has been drying out for a year. It did get snowed on but we have been bringing it in and leaving it in the garage for a few days and then stacking the next day's wood by the insert to help dry it out. Yes we did get an insulated liner all the way to the top.

Even though I tried to convince the installer to use outdoor air for combustion he first tried to convince me otherwise. When I held firm he stated that this insert would not work in my fireplace using OA. I did not know any better and took him on his word but I don't believe him now. I figure after this burn season I will have someone come out and fix it so that is uses OA next year. Hopefully, that is possible. It annoys me that he did not want to do it and I am not sure why.

Thanks for you help and sorry about the long time in responding to your help.

Shawn

 

[brownsl]

I've read this before, some people see a marked difference with a lot of ash in the stove. I haven't notice this yet. However, that doesn't mean it's not happening in your stove. I'm wondering if the ash bed insulates the firebrick and affects the heating of the EBT?

To help with the coals, as the fire dies down, rake the coals to the front and center of the firebox. Close the door and let it burn with wide-open air for about 30 minutes. Then refill the stove.

Some folks use an ash strainer to save the coals. It's called a KoalKeeper ( http://www.koalkeeper.com/ ). These look like a regular ash shovel, but they have a slotted back instead of a solid one. Lehmans sells them. And someone here posted that they found a great big commercial strainer spoon at a commercial restaurant supply (perplexed?).

Thanks for the suggestion of the KoalKeeper. I am definitely going to order one. I will also try raking the coals to the front and leaving them burn for a while before I relaod. I decided to try leaving the ash in the insert and not cleaning it out so often. I am in I think the third or fourth day since I have cleaned it and it seems to be operating OK.With respect to maintaining a nice temperature in the rooms I think the fact that the outside temperature is about 20 degrees warmer has helped. We were in the negative single digits and it seemed to struggle warming the living areas.

Thanks again for the help.

Shawn

 

[brownsl]

how is your wood? I know it is cliché but I notice if my wood is not as dry as i like i get more little chunks. mine operates similar to how you are describing yours.

I am not sure how to determine the quality of the wood. The guy that sold it to me said it was ash and had been drying out for over a year but I do not know if that can be verified by looking at it. The wood did get snowed on but we have been bringing several days worth of wood into the garage. Then bringing the wood we are going to use next inside and leaving it by the insert to help dry it out more.

Thanks for the help.

Shawn

 

[brownsl]

place the thermom on the front-far right-above the hinges.....see what temps you are running and how things are working. I have good luck with raking the coals to the front and tossing 2 small splits on with the air wide open, about 30 mintues of good heat and it burns the coals down nice. However, durnig this serious cold snap, I have been tossing out a good amount of coals to make room for large splits to fit.

Thanks for the advice on placing the thermometer. I moved it to where you suggested and I seem to be getting a good reading now. The thermometer has a burn zone labeled on it from about 300 F to 500 F and it always seems to be in this area. We had a hard cold for a few days and it definitely seemed to affect the performance of the insert with respect to keeping the rooms warm. It has warmed up some now and it seems to be performing a little better but it still does not go over 70 F after the first few loads. I wonder if it is still mostly due to being in a colder part of the winter.

Shawn

 

[brownsl]

Ray nailed it...make sure the air vents in the bottom front are clear, rake the coals to the front and burn a few small pieces on top of the coal pile with the air opened up to H. I can only get 4-6 days without shoveling out the ash.

That's my nightly routine...burn down the pile from the all day stoking in the evening to make room for the long duration nightime burn.

With this cold weather, I turn up the oil to 64-66 at night and just let it do it's thing...it's too cold to fight with the Summit alone. Anything above 0 for lows and I'm GTG, but this -15-20 is tough.

I am not sure I understand the part about the air vents. Are you referrring to the vents inside the insert? I notice there is a piece of metal in the inside front bottom of the stove that can be swiveled up. I then notice two sets of three holes at the bottom front of this 'flap'. Are these the holes that feed the air? If so, they seem to get easily block from the ash. Is there a suggested way to keep these holes clear?

Thanks for the advice. Instead of cleaning the ash every couple of days I have left it in for the last 3-4 days and it seems to not have diminished the performance any further.

Shawn

 

[brownsl]

Wise move ken. The stove shouldn't be thought of as a 100% solution in extreme weather. Best to use the furnace/boiler when it make sense.

In this part of the house we have an electric heat pump with no backup except for radiant baseboard units. I was hoping to avoid using these this winter. The heat pump services about 2400 sqft. I have turned off the heat pump and used only the insert to heat. It seems to be able to keep the house at a 'livable' temperature ... just don't ask my wife.

Shawn

 

[brownsl]

i havent turned on my furnace once this winter.i wanted to see how the summit would do with this cold snap we've been having.here it went down to around -30c or -22f.the basement stayed nice and warm(were the summit is) the main floor did dip down to the low to mid 60f 16c at night.but we usually dont get these temps and the hole house is usually in the 70s.and im getting very long burn times when the temp outside is say -5c to -10c.easily get 12 hours.believe it or not i loaded up my stove one night with elm at 1am at 5pm the next day the stove was almost at 300f.now putting in the summit was a nice upgrade but the biggest upgrade was sealing and insulating the house.and a bonus is you dont get cold spots around the house cause the heat stays in and transfers around the house.sorry a little off topic

We have turned off our heat pump and during the recent period of negative temperatures (F) the insert was able to keep the far bedrooms in the 50s at night and low 60s during the day. With the heat pump that services the other part of the house (far from the insert) we keep the house at 62 during the day and 58 at night. It is nice to have it warm near the insert so if the cold gets to unbearable we do have a place to warm up.

Shawn

 

[iceman]

We had a PE Summit insert installed shortly before Thanksgiving and I loved it at first but I have become a bit disenchanted with it lately. I hope it is more operating error than just the way it is. The biggest annoyance I find is emptying out the 'ash'. We run it constantly and I empty out the ash every couple of days. However, it is not full of ash but small pieces (chunks) of wood. It seems to be a waste discarding this wood. My only alternative is to let it burn itself out over 12 hours or so and then it is full of ash. But the house is cold by then. Is this the way it is supposed to work? Also, I noticed once I clean out most of the ash it burns very well for a couple of loads and then the performance goes down as it begins to fill up. Is this because the fresh air intake is becoming blocked? The first couple of loads I can get the house up to about 73-74F but after those loads it only reaches the upper 60s. This is the temperature in the kitchen (20 feet away). I have read the manual and it is not very helpful with respect to operating the insert. Is there a recommended operating procedure for the insert?

Also, I bought a thermometer to monitor the burn temperature and the only place to put it is on top. I am not sure this gives me an accurate reading especially if I have the fan on and it blows right over the thermometer.


Thanks for any advice.

Shawn

everything said in this thread is true
however i am a summit insert owner and have experienced the same thing you mentioned...
but, i can bet your would is not fully seasoned.. its prolly not green but wait till next year and you will see a HUGE diff
now what i do is every morning i gently pull ash tho the front of the stove .. skimming the top as you will find coals whether hot or cold .. and i don't wanna throw those out.. then i use my shovel push all coals as far BACK as possible then scoop out the ash.. its not that much usually 1-3 scoops ... then i use shovel to bring all coals forward but i give those air vents at the bottom some breathing room.. then reload and its all good ... sounds long but really takes less than 5 min.. plus having the door open starts any black coals burning again..
now, i have to do this alot with semi-seasoned wood which is what i believe you have
i cut down on this by getting stove real hot leave air little less than half way till it hits 550-700 then shut it down ...
but depending on the wood i won't close it all the way at night if i worry about coals i will leave half way between L and all the way closed .. giving it more air makes for faster burn but eliminates chunky coals from not so dry wood
BUT when i use real good dry wood...shut it down at 500 all the way and in the morning just enough to start it going again.. no coal issues at all....
but every time you reload push anything away from air holes in the bottom just a little
and try to keep your wood back don't put it on top as it can block it as it turns to ash if you have air all the way down

 

[jwscarab]

Shawn,

I may be way off base here - but I live in the same area - SE Indiana. I burn a lot of White Ash and I dont like it. I wonder if White Ash trees make more ash than other woods such as Hickory, Oak or Locust. After I use up my White Ash, I may try to shy away from it. My father also has burned White Ash and says it is much inferior to the Locust he has on his property as far as more ashes and less heat.

Again, I may be way off base here - but just sharing my thoughts.

I have the Alderea T6 (same as Summit) and I also get tons of ash in the stove in short order, and I too am burning White Ash. I am going to try some other wood to compare soon!

 

[Ken45]

Shawn,

I may be way off base here - but I live in the same area - SE Indiana. I burn a lot of White Ash and I dont like it. I wonder if White Ash trees make more ash than other woods such as Hickory, Oak or Locust. After I use up my White Ash, I may try to shy away from it. My father also has burned White Ash and says it is much inferior to the Locust he has on his property as far as more ashes and less heat.

Again, I may be way off base here - but just sharing my thoughts.

I have the Alderea T6 (same as Summit) and I also get tons of ash in the stove in short order, and I too am burning White Ash. I am going to try some other wood to compare soon!

Heat wise (BTUs/pound), White Ash and Red Oak are almost identical and near the top of the list. Locust is only about 10% higher. I think all of the species you mention are good coal producers.

One thing I've found is that larger (thicker) splits tend to leave more coals. A Summit doesn't need those whopping big splits. Next year I will be splitting stuff thinner. If you have big chunks that produce more coals, you might try resplitting some and see if that helps.

Ken

 

[crazy_dan]

I also agree with Ken45 and I split my wood smaller than most (I think) Most of my wood would not even make 6" across the widest point because the wife doesn't like to handle the big "heavy" stuff so I split it smaller than I would if it were just me. this arrangement works great for us as she will then fill the stove and tend the fire without complaint.

does your wood hiss or do you see wetness on the ends when you load the stove?

Edited to add:
Not sure if it was mentioned but,..
There is a learning cure with new stoves that seams to last about a year, so don't get to frustrated and just go with the flow by this time next year if you keep at it you will have that summit cruising along with little to no complaints (other than it won't load it self )