PE Summit Safe Operting Temps

[MovingOffGrid]

New Summit stove - For 20 years I've always run my 30' Brick chimney hot on startup, to get my 6x10 clay flue draw happening quickly, but wondering what temperatures this new stove can handle without breaking something in the stove.

With my old smoke dragon, I used to crank it to 750 flue degrees at 18" above stove (sometimes even 800 to 1000 degrees on mill ends - chimney was super clean during those years - lol ) and it never missed a step (my centrally located, straight up chimney is rock solid, no cracks, built by a skilled European bricklayer to code and cleaned 2x year by me).

What about this Summit? Can it handle a decent 700 degree flue temp for 30 minutes without any issues once or twice a day, then run it at 300 to 500 flue temp for a nice steady burn? So far I have been using the stove at what seems like a medium burn of 450 flue temp, and a slow longer burn at about 300, but, when being cautious with startup and not pushing past the 600 level, it takes quite a bit longer to get up to speed and hold a steady burn than with my old smoke dragon. A bypass like on Cat stoves would have been especially nice for those with an oversize flue. Once the Summit is warmed up and the Chimney is drawing, it works great, but when stone cold, I like to crack the door for a bit to really get the warm air moving into the chimney.

I hear some people using a stove top thermometer on the Summit. Where should it be placed and what kid of high temps should that thermometer show? I'm guessing the SS baffle is the most sensitive item in the stove. I have read, if memory serves, 1100 degrees is about the max on the baffle, but not sure what that is in stove top or flue temp.

Many thanks

 

[karl]

Do you have a stainless steel liner in your chimney? If not I would suggest getting one. EPA stoves like the liner, and the liner makes cleaning easier. It is also much safer.

As for temps. I don't measure flue temps, but a stove temp of 650-750 is considered normal when the secondaries kick in. Normal stove top temps of 500-600 will produce a very clean burn. You don't need to get the stove super hot to make it burn clean.

 

[Hogwildz]

Until I get a laser thermo, I don't have the luxury of stack temp on my Summit insert. I measure on upper front corners above door. And have run it at 750, occasioanlly above. Never had a problem in the 3 years I been running it.
The baffle did puff somewhat, but does not affect performance or loading.
You should be fine. The baffle will typically glow at higher temps, especially with the secondaries blazing away. You ain't going to hurt that thing without trying really really hard, and not sure you could then even.

If your drafting good, may not be a problem, but you may be losing some draft with the larger flue area. If your draft is noticeably slower/weaker, you may ant to consider a 6" round liner.
As Karl stated, you don't need to get her steel mill hot to burn her clean.

 

[MovingOffGrid]

Karl, yes, I hear that is the recommended route for most with a clay/brick chimney, but mine works great with this stove once warmed up, and I am reluctant to use a liner cause of the thermal radiant heat of the chimney upstairs (guessing the liner would cut down on that considerably).

One interesting note, I was recently told by an ex Fire Chief, that they are finding SS liners are causing more fires than in brick! Whaaaa? that's what he said. Evidently something about the creosote sticking more to SS liners than tile chimneys. [Shrug!] .... Even if that is BS, I'm still stuck on using my chimney as I don't want to lose any radiant storage capacity we've enjoyed so much over the years. It's clean and safe, so the only issues I have is if it is safe to heat it up a little quicker, than you guys with a liner would need to.

 

[begreen]

The stove can take it, but I think you'll find it that the stack will run cooler with the more efficient Summit, especially once the air is cut back and it is running on secondary burn.

 

[MovingOffGrid]

Hogwildz ... describing my draft I would say it's a bit lazy on dead cold startup (morning after is ok), but draws very nicely after the chimney gets up to temp. With a liner (I believe I'd have to go 5 1/2" to fit) , I'm a little concerned that I might have too much draft at 30', so I'll run it as is for now and play with an open door startup when I need to jump start the chimney. Once up to speed, the stove works great on my chimney, so I'm reluctant to risk spending the money and having significant overdraft on cold nights.

Good to hear that baffle is sturdy. I'll try the door thermometer and meter there as well.

last night was minus 3 Celcius - and it was the First night this winter, using the new stove, that the furnace never came on once (my smoke dragon couldn't do that) - this stove on a 1/2 load of wood, burned completely and steadily and had coals left this Am to start another log easily.
2500 sq. ft, 2 story home with stove on ground floor
yeehaw!

This Stove is a nice bit of gear!

 

[RAY_PA]

been very busy and havent had time to reply to this thread, but I have a couple pice for you regarding the thermometer and placement. This is how Hog suggested I do it and I have had good luck and great burning.

 

[madison]

Unsuccessful forum search, but I think it has previously been "asked and answered: How does the summit (freestanding) stove door temps coorelate with the stovetop.? -- I would assume the stovetop temps are higher than the door temps ?

 

[karl]

Search for Brother Barts post. I don't think he used a Summit, but he did do a test. I think he came up with a hundred degree difference. I'm not sure now.

 

[karri0n]

Offgrid,

Not sure if yours is equipped with it, but using the ashpan door might be a better "blastoff" technique than the front loading door. It sounds like you have a pretty good hang of what you're doing and are happy with your flue setup. If you were burning a smoke dragon before with no problems, then build up is likely not a concern at all with the Summit, liner or not.


edit: short times of even 800 or so aren't really going to cause any probs with that Summit. It's sustained overfiring that you need to worry about.

 

[CajunInMs]

been very busy and havent had time to reply to this thread, but I have a couple pice for you regarding the thermometer and placement. This is how Hog suggested I do it and I have had good luck and great burning.

Ray_Pa, Great pics. I'm new to all of this, but from what I can tell,your thermometer is showing overfire. Is that the temp you burn constantly? Not sure how all of this works, thats why I'm asking.
:question:

 

[WidowMaker]

been very busy and havent had time to reply to this thread, but I have a couple pice for you regarding the thermometer and placement. This is how Hog suggested I do it and I have had good luck and great burning.

Ray_Pa, Great pics. I'm new to all of this, but from what I can tell,your thermometer is showing overfire. Is that the temp you burn constantly? Not sure how all of this works, thats why I'm asking.
:question:

===

I wouldn't put a great deal of faith inthe thermometer readings. I have two of those side by side on my Lopi and they will read from 100 t0 250 degrees different at any given time. However YMMV...

 

[begreen]

been very busy and havent had time to reply to this thread, but I have a couple pice for you regarding the thermometer and placement. This is how Hog suggested I do it and I have had good luck and great burning.

Ray_Pa, Great pics. I'm new to all of this, but from what I can tell,your thermometer is showing overfire. Is that the temp you burn constantly? Not sure how all of this works, thats why I'm asking.
:question:

There isn't any universal answer for this question. Different locations on different stoves are going to show different temps. Some stoves cruise at 400, some at 600. And the general point about some of these thermometers not being too accurate can be true. But for a Summit, 700-750 is not an unusual temperature when a full load of wood is hot and in full secondary burn. For other stoves, this would be a bit hot.

Note that the temperature range indicators on this type of thermometer are for when it is being used on a single wall flue pipe.

 

[iceman]

mine runs where ever it wants to go... good dry wood with max capacity that baby will be 700-850 peak but usually goes 600-700

 

[RAY_PA]

mine runs where ever it wants to go... good dry wood with max capacity that baby will be 700-850 peak but usually goes 600-700

That best describes it!
I dont know if the thermo is is calibrated, I just use it as a guide. I will say that the 'overfire' indication on it is not accurate for a stove surface, it may be for a flue. When I load it full with good dry wood and the secondary burn kicks in, it will run at 750-800 for 40 minutes or so, then slowly back down to 600-650 and stay there for a couple hours. The first few times this happened, I felt very uncomfortable, so I talked with iceman, hog and karl on here, who all run summit inserts and all of them told me to relax, its the nautre of the beast...and they were right on the money. I have burned 24/7 since October, let the fire go out today, as its supposed to be 60 here...chimney is very clean and once I cleaned up the stove and glass, it looks like the day I took it out of the crate.
Good luck and enjoy the fire!

 

[Northeaster1]

I have a burn indicator / thermometer, in the same palce as Ray. Almost always around 700-800 when burning well - around 30-60 minutes after reload, secondary burning well, draft cut back. They are "meant for" the stovepipe, so the overfire warning does not apply. Mine is very accurate, as checked by an IR temp gun.

I was used to my older non-efficient camp stove, which drafts better with the door open. On my PE pacific, it doesn't dradt well at all, with the door open. As soon as I close the door, with the draft wide open, she takes off!! I do have lots of draft, despite the shorter (18') external chimney, with a non-insulated solid liner.

I talked to the PE guy, who said you will not overfire, unless you leave the draft basically wide open, so that it burns the who new load, in less than 4 hours. He sid they attach a fan to the stack, to force pull a greater amount of draft, when testing the stoves.

 

[MovingOffGrid]

just checked back in and see many new posts ... great feedback - Thanks!

karri0n - "the ashpan door might be a better “blastoff” technique than the front loading door."
You've pushed me over the edge on that ashpan. I got the stove without it, as the dealer didn't have one in stock, but just ordered one and PE says yes I can install it with the pedestal already on, it's just a little close quarters.

I've been reading up here on the "ashpan technique" and see the warnings and I think it was Begreen who had a canon like incident, definitely want to avoid that - lol - but still feel it might be a clean, easier way to jump start things and avoid the rather fussy, open door startup on cold chimney. I've been getting better at it, but I've only managed to get it down to one backpuff into the house at minimum so far on a cold chimney start.

Any Ashpan startup thoughts? How hot have you let the stove go with ash pan open before creating canon like incidents?

 

[madison]

Comments? - don't do it. Unless you like rolling the dice.

Sooner rather than later, that ash chute will get jammed open, and you have a fresh load of wood igniting and waiting to "blast off".

Before you attempt this, I would suggest trying to clean out your cold stove with the ash chute, and attempt to close the ash chute without any fire in the stove. You will quickly note that any pea, sand, etc sized charcoal will jam and prevent the chute from sealing closed.

 

[MovingOffGrid]

hmmmm, good point Madison ... that sounds like the critical issue. best intentions aside, if it jams open on full load, bingo. perhaps in the event of cold starting a big chimney, starting small fires with it would be a sensible compromise.

As far as ash clean-outs go, are you satisfied with the sturdy nature of it? Does it plug frequently on each ash clean-out?

one thing in my favor, my chimney takes a while to start sucking hard ;-)

 

[begreen]

just checked back in and see many new posts ... great feedback - Thanks!

karri0n - "the ashpan door might be a better “blastoff” technique than the front loading door."
You've pushed me over the edge on that ashpan. I got the stove without it, as the dealer didn't have one in stock, but just ordered one and PE says yes I can install it with the pedestal already on, it's just a little close quarters.

I've been reading up here on the "ashpan technique" and see the warnings and I think it was Begreen who had a canon like incident, definitely want to avoid that - lol - but still feel it might be a clean, easier way to jump start things and avoid the rather fussy, open door startup on cold chimney. I've been getting better at it, but I've only managed to get it down to one backpuff into the house at minimum so far on a cold chimney start.

Any Ashpan startup thoughts? How hot have you let the stove go with ash pan open before creating canon like incidents?

There was one forgetful incident with the ashpan door early on with the F400 a few years ago. We never made that mistake again. No cannon like events for us with the PE T6 yet. There isn't a large ash grate on this stove. And no ahspan door. Just a tiny little 2x3" hole you're supposed to corral your ashes into. There is a little trap door at the bottom of this hole. If you're not careful it can get wedged slightly open with ash. Personally, I'm not too excited about the design. We don't use it at all.

 

[madison]

ditto, except i tried to use it two times before saying never again.

 

[Jimbob]

What about this Summit? Can it handle a decent 700 degree flue temp for 30 minutes without any issues once or twice a day, then run it at 300 to 500 flue temp for a nice steady burn?


I hear some people using a stove top thermometer on the Summit. Where should it be placed and what kid of high temps should that thermometer show?
Many thanks

See the thread I just bumped, called "Yet another stove lighting thread" for some of your answers.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/9812/
:cheese: