PE T5 can't keep temp under 700 and short burn times with full load . i think i have an air leak

[jdurando]

Ok so today I started the T5 at 9:30 am and after the kindling and 2 small splits burned down to coals at 10:30-11 I loaded it up 7-8 splits about 3"-4" diameter got it going about 5-7 min and turned down the air all the way. Now its and the stove top go's up to 750* -775* according to my new Fluke IR thermometer and then begins to slowly drop.
by 1:30 2 hours later no flames plenty of coals but the stove top is at 400 ok so I load her up again this time it took 2hr 30 min to get back to 400*
ok so I thought maybe the wood is too small at 3:15 I stuffed 3 large splits in (almost didn't fit) let them go for about 5 min turn the air all the way down stove top took longer to get to 750* but by 6:00 I was back at 400* on the stove top and looking to reload again.
I loaded her up again at 6:00 and by 9:00 the stove top was 350*

Should I be able to keep the temp between 500* - 700* with the air down all the way? Am I just being impatient should I let the stove top temp go down to 250 - 300 before reload. if this is normal somehow I miss understood all the posts about burn times I was expecting to get 6-10hrs between reloads with out the stovetop going below 400*

I checked the door with a dollar bill and the gasket seems ok I am going to call PE and see if they have any ideas on Monday but I thought you guys might have some suggestions of thing I could try tomorrow.

 

[Hogwildz]

Sounds like your wood may not be as dry as you think it is. Larger splits for longer burn times.
5 minutes is not near long enough for a reload to get back to temps. Especially with large splits.

 

[Jimbob]

What species of wood are you using?
How tall is your chimney?
If your stove has an ash door, make sure it closes properly.
I generally let the stove go down to 250 before I re-load. I turn my air control down shortly after a re-load.
If I re-load when the top of the stove is @ 400 I can leave the air control turned down without excessive smouldering.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Yes, my first question is what kind of wood are you burning? How long has it seasoned? Also, 3-4" splits are pretty small and they will burn faster.

I also do not reload the stove until the temperature gets down to around 300; sometimes lower.

 

[jdurando]

Sounds like your wood may not be as dry as you think it is. Larger splits for longer burn times.
5 minutes is not near long enough for a reload to get back to temps. Especially with large splits.

The chimney is 14' of Simpson Duratech on top of 8' of dbl wall with one offset in the stove pipe.
The ash dump is closed (is it supposed to have a gasket?) I can see the mark from the door seal all the way around the door and the dollar bill was in there nice and snug.

I agree the splits might be small but the larger ones only burned 1 hr longer the wood. And if I let it go more then 5 - 10 min with the air open the stove top temp goes through the roof. Plus if the wood was wet wouldn't the problem be the opposite? I think my issue is too much air but I am not sure where to look. Before I start the stove the draft is there but it's not overwhelming sometimes if I put in too much paper I may get some smoke in the house if I leave the door open and it burns fast. But most times startup is fine.

Maybe I just miss understood what to expect should I be able to get 4-6 hours of 400- 600 heat from one load? Right now I am going from 400 - 750 - 300 in 3-4 hrs.

 

[begreen]

Are you closing the air control fully after the wood has ignited? It's good to check with your dealer on this one. It doesn't sound like too much draft. If this is a new stove it could have an assembly defect. The T5, with seasoned hardwood should burn much longer than that. Even with softwood an 8 hr burn is reasonable to expect.

 

[Hogwildz]

With soft wood, obviously your not going to get the same length of burn times as hardwoods. What type wood are you burning? I burn pine sometimes to get the firebox up to temp quick. It acts similar to this, but still not quite as fast I think.
I miss read about the temps, so my mistake there, sorry. If I read correctly this time, your obtaining 750 top temp, but then shes burning down fast along with the temps dropping faster than normal.
With my stove at 300 or even 400 with hardwoods, there is no way I could see 700 temps in 5 or ten minutes. Something is seriously wrong there.

 

[Todd]

Is there a way to check your air control slide mechanism? Maybe something is loose or adjar?

 

[begreen]

You can definitely pull the ash pan and look at both the air control mechanism and the ash dump mechanism. The ash pan is not a sealed system. Make sure the ash chute door is closed tight and not wedged open with ash.

 

[snowtime]

One quick thought is to check your glass gasket. Mine came from the factory with the top part lose. It wasn't even behind the glass. You did the dollar bill completely around the door right? All sides need to be checked. As some have said check underneath to see if the ebt is stuck open. Good luck.

 

[BrotherBart]

Are you loading that load of small splits N/S on top of a spread out hot coal bed in a 400 degree stove? If you are that is a sure formula for spiking a hot startup and incinerating the load fast. Burn it down to around 300 degrees and drag a six inch front to back depth coal bed across the front of the firebox. Load the front of your splits on top of the coal bed with the back end of them laying on dead ash and then "cigar burn" that load for hours and hours at 450-550 on a low or shut down air setting. I have been sitting here playing poker for four hours with the 30-NC at 400-450 stove top cigar burning two six inch splits front to back. For the life of me I cannot figure out why people want to blow btu's up the chimney with those 700-800 degree blast-offs just to watch the load die in three hours. Hell, it took longer to cut and split the load than you get out of it.

 

[jdurando]

Are you loading that load of small splits N/S on top of a spread out hot coal bed in a 400 degree stove? If you are that is a sure formula for spiking a hot startup and incinerating the load fast. Burn it down to around 300 degrees and drag a six inch front to back depth coal bed across the front of the firebox. Load the front of your splits on top of the coal bed with the back end of them laying on dead ash and then "cigar burn" that load for hours and hours at 450-550 on a low or shut down air setting. I have been sitting here playing poker for four hours with the 30-NC at 400-450 stove top cigar burning two six inch splits front to back. For the life of me I cannot figure out why people want to blow btu's up the chimney with those 700-800 degree blast-offs just to watch the load die in three hours. Hell, it took longer to cut and split the load than you get out of it.

Ok I will try that tomorrow. Trust me I don't want to burn the load in 2-3 hrs I just cant seen to get it to burn longer or cooler. I do rake the coals around when reloading and I pull some to the front but there are a lot of coals so yes the load is all sitting on hot coals.

Today I checked the air slide it looks ok to me nothing obvious like a missing part or anything the ash dump is closed but like I said before it doesn’t have a gasket (not sure if it is supposed to) I did notice the gasket on the inside of the glass is a little floppy it looks like it is supposed to hit the rim around the door but it doesn’t. Tomorrow I will take a pic and post it. Also sometimes I get what looks like secondary combustion coming form the lower left corner of the door at first I thought it was just the way the air was coming off the air wash but now I am not sure. That corner is the only spot it happens in but it's not every load. Tomorrow I will also be calling PE to see what they think.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help I will let you know how I make out

 

[Hogwildz]

Are you loading that load of small splits N/S on top of a spread out hot coal bed in a 400 degree stove? If you are that is a sure formula for spiking a hot startup and incinerating the load fast. Burn it down to around 300 degrees and drag a six inch front to back depth coal bed across the front of the firebox. Load the front of your splits on top of the coal bed with the back end of them laying on dead ash and then "cigar burn" that load for hours and hours at 450-550 on a low or shut down air setting. I have been sitting here playing poker for four hours with the 30-NC at 400-450 stove top cigar burning two six inch splits front to back. For the life of me I cannot figure out why people want to blow btu's up the chimney with those 700-800 degree blast-offs just to watch the load die in three hours. Hell, it took longer to cut and split the load than you get out of it.

Ok I will try that tomorrow. Trust me I don't want to burn the load in 2-3 hrs I just cant seen to get it to burn longer or cooler. I do rake the coals around when reloading and I pull some to the front but there are a lot of coals so yes the load is all sitting on hot coals.

Today I checked the air slide it looks ok to me nothing obvious like a missing part or anything the ash dump is closed but like I said before it doesn’t have a gasket
PM either Tom at chimneysweeponline or BeGreen and ask them directly if the ashpan should have a gasket, this could be part of the problem.
(not sure if it is supposed to) I did notice the gasket on the inside of the glass is a little floppy it looks like it is supposed to hit the rim around the door but it doesn’t. Tomorrow I will take a pic and post it.
Please do post a pic, I just replaced my glass & the gasket, so I know exactly what it should look like
Also sometimes I get what looks like secondary combustion coming form the lower left corner of the door at first I thought it was just the way the air was coming off the air wash but now I am not sure. That corner is the only spot it happens in but it's not every load.
Thats an air leak, mine does that as I need a new latch handle, but it does not affect my temps or burn times any dif than normal. BUT if its rushing in there bad, or another tell tale is the glass will be sooted up or black in the area of the door leak.
Tomorrow I will also be calling PE to see what they think. They will direct you to call your dealer, call the dealer and get him to address the problem, if after a couple attempts he does not, then call PE and let them know of the problem & the sealer problem if there is one.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help I will let you know how I make out

Keep us informed, it can help others also.

 

[jdurando]

Here are he pics of the glass seal. also i spoke to the dealer today she was very nice and seems like she is willing to help. she said she is going to speak to PE Tech and call me back.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/j_durando/DSC_5141.jpg this is where i think the leak is.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/j_durando/DSC_5142.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/j_durando/DSC_5143.jpg

 

[madison]

Looks like it wraps on both sides of the glass, and looks about the same as my t6. Glass looks nice a clean, I think you would see some differences in the buildup of dirt on the inside of the glass if there was a leak (unless you cleaned it for the pics...)

There is no gasket on the ash dump, i would also inspect the ash dump bolts underneath the firebox above the ash pan for loose or missing bolts. I cut a piece of firebrick to fill in the space beside the ash chute, i may just cut another to cover the entire hole as the i don't think i will ever use it again to dump ashes (off topic).

You would be amazed that a really small cinder can prevent the ash chute flap from completely closing. Been there! I would clean out the firebox and chute, and toggle the ash dump flap multiple times to make sure it is clear of all debris and securely closed. rebuild another fire, and look for a glowing hotspot above the ash chute which may reveal it is not completely closed.

 

[madison]

john,

I reread your initial post several times, and I think air leaks are not your issue.

As previously stated: The quality of the wood make a huge difference in the performance of these stoves. Both in burn rates as well as stove top temps. Also the variances in your operation of the unit play a big part in addition to the wood quality issues. ie split size, loading patterns (n/s, e/w etc) and timing loading and air control, weather, and things you do inside your house (ie cloths dryers, bathroom exhaust fans).

The above are "just to name a few".

I would suggest the obvious, get some dry wood, and/or experiment with various loading patterns of your not so seasoned wood to allow more air and experiment a bit.

Also, read a bunch of these forum threads and you will find a bunch of this stuff "asked and answered".

 

[jdurando]

Looks like it wraps on both sides of the glass, and looks about the same as my t6. Glass looks nice a clean, I think you would see some differences in the buildup of dirt on the inside of the glass if there was a leak (unless you cleaned it for the pics...)

There is no gasket on the ash dump, i would also inspect the ash dump bolts underneath the firebox above the ash pan for loose or missing bolts. I cut a piece of firebrick to fill in the space beside the ash chute, i may just cut another to cover the entire hole as the i don't think i will ever use it again to dump ashes (off topic).

You would be amazed that a really small cinder can prevent the ash chute flap from completely closing. Been there! I would clean out the firebox and chute, and toggle the ash dump flap multiple times to make sure it is clear of all debris and securely closed. rebuild another fire, and look for a glowing hotspot above the ash chute which may reveal it is not completely closed.

Thanks good to know there is no gasket on the ash dump i got a call from the distributer today he went over all my symptoms and he agreed i should be getting longer burn times and stove top temp in the 600*'s insted of 700*'s. he is going to have my dealer send me a baffle gasket and we are going to see how it go's from there


i did not clean the glass for the pic but i did wipe the soot off this morning before i starter her up.

here are some pics form this last load

loaded at 12:45 375* closed air down almost all the way 12:55 550* at 1:20 720* and at 4:45pm 350* longest burn yet 4 hrs

12:45pm reload top temp 375*

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/j_durando/DSC_5114.jpg


4:45pm top temp 350*
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w99/j_durando/DSC_5154.jpg

 

[jdurando]

john,

I reread your initial post several times, and I think air leaks are not your issue.

As previously stated: The quality of the wood make a huge difference in the performance of these stoves. Both in burn rates as well as stove top temps. Also the variances in your operation of the unit play a big part in addition to the wood quality issues. ie split size, loading patterns (n/s, e/w etc) and timing loading and air control, weather, and things you do inside your house (ie cloths dryers, bathroom exhaust fans).

The above are "just to name a few".

I would suggest the obvious, get some dry wood, and/or experiment with various loading patterns of your not so seasoned wood to allow more air and experiment a bit.

Also, read a bunch of these forum threads and you will find a bunch of this stuff "asked and answered".

Furness and hot water heater are direct-vent i have not used the bath fans or dryer while doing there burn tests and i did not hook up the OAK yet.

I appreciated all the help i really do and i hope this doesn't come off the wrong way but i don't think it's the wood the photo above was taken about 10 sec after the wood was put in the stove. it has been split and stacked and covered for 2-3 years summer 2005 -06 . on the other hand the issue could be ME learning to use the stove. i just think the load in the photo above should have given me more then 4 hours of heat. and i should be able to keep the temp under 700*. i hope it is me and not the stove that i can correct

again thanks for all the help your advice is priceless.

 

[madison]

agree with all your latest observations, and no problem, "no harm no foul".

i am glad my wife agreed to my choice of the t6 over the t5, the firebox does look a lot narrower. what size room/house are you trying to heat with the t5. I will admit, the alderlea's heat is not the blast furnace type heat that I have witnessed from other types of stoves, but our fuel bills are sure alot lower.

also, regarding your dollar bill test, did you check the hinge side as well as the handle side? Myself and i think it was KeithO (he's got a t5) had to refit the hinge side for a better seal...

 

[10-cc]

Looking at the pics, I can tel that the top gasket is not compressed as the bottom and the sides. This indicate that some adjustment are needed:

First, try to adjust the door latch (it worked for me as I had the same problem), If not the door needs to be adjust from the hinge side (check the upper bolt on the hinge side)

 

[jdurando]

i am glad my wife agreed to my choice of the t6 over the t5, the firebox does look a lot narrower. what size room/house are you trying to heat with the t5.

the room is only 15' by 12'6" so about 187 sqft but the return for the furnace in this room in the ceiling so I hope I can send the warm air to the rest of the house, that is about 1500 sqft Cape Cod I think the T6 would have been great but too big for my house

Looking at the pics, I can tel that the top gasket is not compressed as the bottom and the sides. This indicate that some adjustment are needed:

First, try to adjust the door latch (it worked for me as I had the same problem), If not the door needs to be adjust from the hinge side (check the upper bolt on the hinge side)

I do not see and adjustment for the door latch how is it adjusted?

 

[Hogwildz]

John,
No doubt about it, that wood is dry and more than ready.
The splits are a bit on the small side compared to what I am sued to burning, which will give you hotter, shorter burn times.
But even with that load you should get 8 hrs, with maybe the last hour or two with it hovering between 300 and 400 degrees.
That soot spot on the glass may be an indicator of an air lead at the door or glass there. Or it may be from a split that was close to the door and off gassed onto the glass.
Bit looks like its at near low coal stage and if it gets hot enough, it will clean that soot off easily.
You may have answered this or posted earlier, but, I am half baked, so when its blazing, are you cutting the air all the way down?
Do the secondaries kick in, for how long? And do the flames get real lazy with just a few & the secondaries going?
This ain't no baffle gasket problem. I'd bury the ash trap in a couple inches of ash after first making sure its closed tight, and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then you can rule the ash chute out.
Sometimes its best to eliminate the possibilities if you can't find the problem at first.

One other thought. If you have any wood thats not as dry as that stuff, try mixing 50%-50% of that dry stuff and some semi seasoned or a lil less dry as that stuff and see if that makes a difference.

 

[10-cc]

JohnD,

On the T6 you can bend the tongue on the door frame, to where the latch roller goes making it tighter, I did it by just knocking a bit this tongue with a hammer. It really solve the runaway fire I previously had as I could not control the fire before. After I did a wet test (and a $ test)==> wetting the gasket with water all around it and quickly closing the door with the latch, reopen the door and you can see on the door frame where it is wet, means the gasket is touching against the frame if it is not then it does not.

I do not know however, for the T5 if it is the same, as for the T4 the tongue is not adjustable so you need to adjust the metal plate (on the door frame left side) with the 3 bolts with a groove adjustment.

 

[karri0n]

You might want to light an incense and test all around the unit for air infiltration. It's a pretty decent air leak if an air leak is the problem, and I don't think that small spot on the glass is indicative of an air leak that would be big enough to be causing the operation you describe. Personally, I would be very suspicious of the ash cleanout.

 

[madison]

...Personally, I would be very suspicious of the ash cleanout.

Echo that again, especially if you have tried to use it to clean out the stove. It would be the first place I would be looking, though the intense "solar flare hotspot" would be hard to miss if the ash chute is ajar.

Curious to hear from other T5 owners of their "burn rates".

With my less than stellar wood, a full box in the T6 loaded at 9 PM has more than enough coals to reload at 7 AM without any effort to get the next batch burning. Stovetop temps range from 350 at the reload at 9 PM up to 600 by ~ 10 PM and back down to ~ 300 at 7 AM.