Pellet cost vrs other
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Nice comparison! The one thing that can change the numbers is Propane furnaces are 90%+ thermal efficient now. Pellet stoves are maybe 75%? I am guessing on that number. So the efficiency factor what have to be plugged in to that equation. Fuel oil burners are not as efficient as propane I dont think, but we dont have many oil burners around here...
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
You can do this analysis yourself using your own appliance efficiency numbers and local fuel costs on the hearth.com fuel cost calculator. It’s getting even easier now with 2020 epa required efficiency testing results available for all new pellet stoves.
Usually the biased person writing the article will rig the results with bogus efficiency inputs.
Don’t forget, on top of straight being cheaper burning wood doesn’t require drilling, fracking, warring with Mideast, carbon neutral, etc.
Usually the biased person writing the article will rig the results with bogus efficiency inputs.
Don’t forget, on top of straight being cheaper burning wood doesn’t require drilling, fracking, warring with Mideast, carbon neutral, etc.
At 8000 BTU per pound, and $250 per ton, pellet fuel is $15.63 per million-BTU. Put it through a 75% efficient pellet stove, and we are now at $20.8 per million BTU of heat into the home.
hockeypuck
Feeling the Heat
We have been down this road before but my personal reason to have one is comfort. Having a point source of heat in the winter is a great way to drive the cold from a body. I would never turn my thermostat up to 75, but that is the temperature when I sit 6 feet away from my stove.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Chart is as old as the car I junked....lol I have not seen $2.80 / gallon propane here in at least 15 years. My cost right now (just filled one of my twin tanks) was $1.10. I'm not against fracking or drilling, never have been so it's not germane to me. I farm so I need petroleum fuel to run my tractors with. Until they come out with a viable electric powered tractor, nothing will change and I don't expect to see that in my lifetime.
Pellets here are $210 a ton and I burn free corn so fuel cost is minimal for me, 1 ton of pellets to mix with my corn is $210 for the entire year.
I only use the stove for supplemental heat anyway, free corn or not. Like today, it's 34 ambient and the stove is carrying the load. Not so when it's 20 outside. I have 'dueling thermostats'...lol. I let them decide on which heat source they want.
Pellets here are $210 a ton and I burn free corn so fuel cost is minimal for me, 1 ton of pellets to mix with my corn is $210 for the entire year.
I only use the stove for supplemental heat anyway, free corn or not. Like today, it's 34 ambient and the stove is carrying the load. Not so when it's 20 outside. I have 'dueling thermostats'...lol. I let them decide on which heat source they want.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Additionally, one thing to always keep in mind and that is solid fuel appliances (stoves), whether they are wood stoves (chunk wood) or biomass stoves (pellets made from wood fibers, pelletized switchgrass, corn stover or whatever, the efficiency ratings are all based on a new, very clean unit operating under optimum conditions so the actual efficiency of any unit will most likely be substantially less than the listed efficiency and that efficiency drops off as the unit gets dirtier inside. Ash is a great insulator inside any stove, much like it's a good draft preventer in a chimney system.
That 75K Btu output unit you have could very well be less than 50K if it's neglected.
That 75K Btu output unit you have could very well be less than 50K if it's neglected.
railfanron
Minister of Fire
At the price of Propane pellets are more expensive for us. I buy at the right time and pay between 180 and 210 a ton for my pellets. House is very well insulated and workshop is pretty well insulated. I buy 3 tons of pellets and 600 gallons of propane a year and that heats the house (2250 sq ft), hot water and the workshop (1600 sq ft) when I'm working in it. We use the pellets cause the wood heat in the family room is nicer than forced air heat.
tlc1976
Minister of Fire
For me pellets are way cheaper than running the boiler. If I can get deals like most years then I rarely would pay more than $200 a ton for the pellets I want. At that price a season of pellets costs the same as a tank of propane. At least when I had a family here I would go through a tank a year without even using it for heat. Using it for heat the previous owner said he would go through 2-3 tanks a year. So if I had to fill it during the winter the prices are usually higher. One thing I can’t change very easily is the boiler heats the basement too. The stove only heats the living area. So I keep the boiler set to like 50f so it will kick on if the stove stops for whatever reason.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Same here, even with my (free) corn which is free actually. Guy down the road (good friend) lets me have all I need. Irregardless, propane is cheaper. If I had to buy pellets or corn, it would sit idle and I don't see the price of propane rising appreciably unless we get some wacko in the Oval office that decides that Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio can deal with double digit unemployment. I don't see that happening (hopefully). 208 a ton for pellets, free corn and the minute amount of electricity to run the stove is still more than propane at $1.04 a gallon delivered. Takes me about a ton of pellets and a couple four thousand pounds of field corn for the year.
We like the ambiance and the heat over the central furnace but the Plus 90 is far cheaper to run.... and no weekly maintenance either.
It appears you're getting a really good deal on propane compared to most of Michigan.
Here in the North country of NY we're really getting hosed.
The regional differences in prices can have a huge affect on what's cheapest in one's area.
Hugh
Im not good at math but have heated my house all winter for $225. Not a drop of oil. Couldnt be more happy.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Don't know what the price of propane is based on but I do know that most of it around here comes from the storage caverns in Sarnia, Ontario and in Flat Rock Michigan. Toledo Refining cracks it but has a limited supply. I get a bit of 'inside' information in as much as one of the guy I hunt with owns the local propane company. He will always tell me when the price is low and I fill accordingly. I actually pre bought 500 gallons this fall at the pre-buy price was set to not exceed $1.25 a gallon. I not only heat my house with it but my machine shop and tractor shop and that is 100 x 120. PEX in floor heat.
I'm not good at math either but I did pencil out the cost roughly. Propane would have to be $2.25 or better a gallon to make bio mass heat affordable. That is the break point for me. I'm less than half that and I just dropped in 425 gallons last week in my back tank and I have 65% in my front tank yet which I'm using presently. The back tank is valved off. and won't be used until next winter.
As it is, it's only for the ambiance and having a nice place to toast your feet. Very lucky my bio mass corn is free. Not very many folks can say that. I think old crop 15% RM corn right now is at around $3.75 a bushel. I don't much follow corn prices as I don't row crop.
I'm not good at math either but I did pencil out the cost roughly. Propane would have to be $2.25 or better a gallon to make bio mass heat affordable. That is the break point for me. I'm less than half that and I just dropped in 425 gallons last week in my back tank and I have 65% in my front tank yet which I'm using presently. The back tank is valved off. and won't be used until next winter.
As it is, it's only for the ambiance and having a nice place to toast your feet. Very lucky my bio mass corn is free. Not very many folks can say that. I think old crop 15% RM corn right now is at around $3.75 a bushel. I don't much follow corn prices as I don't row crop.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Only 'oil' I use is in my farm tractors. Never considered fuel oil to be a very economical way to heat anyway.
I take it you heat with wood? All well and good but I guess your personal labor, cutting, splitting and stacking and then hauling it in the house isn't worth much as you fail to include that in your cost equation. I need to hire you for a farm hand. You are dirt cheap labor.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Not sure where that chart comes from or what region of Michigan it represents but it don't represent the lower south east section of the state. I bet it's showing cost in the upper peninsula of Michigan where transportation costs are about twice what they are here.
Yes, you are getting screwed, you are getting the gold plated screw in fact.
Man I wish propane was that cheap in NH. I only use it for gas stove and dryer right now (have a small propane stove in the den that hasn’t worked since I bought the house last year) and it’s around $4.50/gallon.
I just looked at my electric bill. It was only $53 for last month. We are at 10.2 cents /kwh. That is taking total bill divided by kwh used. The only fixed cost I could see was a $7.00 customer fee. That seems like a pretty decent rate. I run A/C all summer and heat our 18K IG pool with a heat pump and keep pool at 88F and my highest bill last summer was 233.00. Just some info on cost from central OH.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Have a good friend in Maine (near Bar Harbor) who pays $1.25 for propane as well. I think the price depends on the locality and the retail distributor and how greedy they are. I know je shopped around and like me, owns his own tanks. If you own them you can do that. If you lease them you are stuck with what a retail distributor charges because they own the tank and you have to fill with them. Because I own them I price shop as well. I do know that Amerigas is stupid high, even around here. Propane should always be less that motor fuel because it' easier to crack and in reality it's a by product of making gasoline.
Fuel Comparison Calculator for Home Heating | Coalpail.com
Compare the costs of different home heating fuels like coal, wood, natural gas and oil. Values are adjusted for efficiency, BTU content and other variables.
coalpail.com
Using the calculator and plugging in 4/Bu corn at 75% eff. and 7000 BTU/Bu to factor in 15% moisture that equals approx. $1.10/gal. propane at 90% eff. furnace. We usually pay about $1.50-2.00/ gallon. That is on a customer owned tank.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Only thing wrong with that calculator is 15% RM corn is based on a bushel price not on a 40 pound bag and a bushel of corn at 15%RM is 53 pounds, not 40. I guess it you buy corn by the bag (never seen that), it would work. Myself, I don't even factor in that because I feed corn to my cattle so I just 'snitch' what I need for the stove out of the grain tank. The corn I get is pre cleaned too and at no cost to me (I actually trade for related farm operations. I plant his produce crops with one of my tractors because one of my tractors has the ultra low ground speed necessary to pull his planter with a crew of migrants setting plants, so the corn is free, sort of.
15%RM is the benchmark for storage. If you tank corn above 15%, it molds in storage and becomes unusable far as consumption for animal feed or commercial processing is concerned.
The table works, sort of and remember, I mix my corn with pellets at a 1-3 ratio to mitigate clinkers. The pellets do the same thing as oyster shell. Unlike oyster shell, pellets burn and create heat.
Field corn here is averaging around 4 bucks a bushel (53 pounds old crop) Like propane, it varies daily depending on the price set by the Chicago Board of Exchange.
15%RM is the benchmark for storage. If you tank corn above 15%, it molds in storage and becomes unusable far as consumption for animal feed or commercial processing is concerned.
The table works, sort of and remember, I mix my corn with pellets at a 1-3 ratio to mitigate clinkers. The pellets do the same thing as oyster shell. Unlike oyster shell, pellets burn and create heat.
Field corn here is averaging around 4 bucks a bushel (53 pounds old crop) Like propane, it varies daily depending on the price set by the Chicago Board of Exchange.
Just a slight correction, IIRC a "bushel of corn" is now set at 56 lb no matter what its moisture content so there's even more affect using the calculator. You're certainly right about wanting lower than 15% mc corn.
Hugh
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Could be right. Last time I tanked corn from the co-op, it was 53 but that was years ago as I don't get it by the bushel anymore, I get a full grain tank in one shot (1000 bushel capacity x 2) Have not bought corn commercially for years.
When I erected my tanks many years ago, I opted for bucket spouts on both GSI tanks so removal is easy as hanging a 5 gallon pail or cart under the spout and opening the slide gate and extracting what I need, when I need it. Very convenient.
I'd burn soybeans as well but being an oilseed, you have to be extremely careful about roasting them. I have mixed in some oilseed in the past but not much. Very hot burn.
When I erected my tanks many years ago, I opted for bucket spouts on both GSI tanks so removal is easy as hanging a 5 gallon pail or cart under the spout and opening the slide gate and extracting what I need, when I need it. Very convenient.
I'd burn soybeans as well but being an oilseed, you have to be extremely careful about roasting them. I have mixed in some oilseed in the past but not much. Very hot burn.
tlc1976
Minister of Fire
That chart is a perfect example of why I typically fill the tank in August or September. And make it last till next August.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
... and why I have twin 500 gallon tanks that I own as well (plus an additional 500 gallon next to the shop). Always cheaper in the summer and I practice the same regimen. Stuff don't ever go bad (unlike e-gasoline) so a valved off tank is like a savings account.
We only use propane in cold weather. HWH is electric and on a separate meter at a substantially reduced rate per KWH. Dryer is electric as well.
No matter what the cost is, I believe that we all like the presence of the fire in the stove. It's kind of a primal instinct to have it. and why most stoves have a view glass too.
We only use propane in cold weather. HWH is electric and on a separate meter at a substantially reduced rate per KWH. Dryer is electric as well.
No matter what the cost is, I believe that we all like the presence of the fire in the stove. It's kind of a primal instinct to have it. and why most stoves have a view glass too.
paying about $3.35/gal propane in eastern MA. hard to believe $1.10/gal. hasn't been that low since probably the 1980's around here!
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