Pellet Exploitation

[restorer]

Well, I'm just a little disgusted with the latest exploitation. Here's a couple of eBay listings:

http://tinyurl.com/2zffeg

(broken link removed)

First is an "entrepeneur" former motorcycle parts seller, getting into pellets, with no knowledge. Note his description of Hardwood, not Softwood. Really knows his product.

Second listing is a creative rip-off. 15lbs. for at least $5.99, plus priority mail at $8.10, a flat rate priority mail box full. Brings the price to $14.09 or the equivalent of $37.57 per 40lb bag.

I have noticed a few $10.00 per bag sales, but the shortage in California is way out of line. Add to that the hysterical news reports, such as last weeks in Seattle, covered in another thread, I am sure folks are starting to panic.

If I were a legitimate seller in CA, NV, OR, WA I would advertise the fact that I may be temporarily out, but will have stock delivered by ___________, or waiting for shipment in progress. AND say you will be there to serve your customers today and in the future.

I got a heads up from a local stove store about the potential to have a shortage in my area this year. That happened in September. They explained that because of the anticipated problem that only their past and regular customers could be accommodated. Not having a history with them, I sought a source before the season and got my three tons. Took three months as the other seller was allocating one ton per customer per month. But they did honor rain checks for pick up. They called you picked up. Today there are still pellets on shelves at the big box stores and specialty stores. Prices have hovered around $4.00 per bag since November. But there is a supply. One ton discounts are available and all seem to be about $200.00 some sellers are not discounting off bag price, but still in range. I scanned prices in other areas and see them rather stable, but still a wide range of prices, $150-280 per ton.

Nothing like the Coast panic.

 

[elkimmeg]

U Rich in related post I hinted that possibly government intervention could help. Instead of oil company subsidies, what about money to thew alternative fuel industry
Help the people that have take the initiative to use it. Not some research funded now and never completed due to lack of future funds .Help an industry established to expand

I think weee all agree the pellet supply and cost is the most pressing issue Also if manufactured logs were a cost basis alternative Urban more populated areas could burn wood stoves using biomass logs. this is where we need help More manufacturing capacity for supplys and cost effective pellets/ bio logs.. Maybe help with distrobution East coast has surplus west coast shortages.. I know I anticipate the responses getting the goverment involved adds to more regulations and we have enough posters anti gov

I once heard the goverment was for the people and by the people. If they can help. then why not welcome the relief?

I would not mention goverment aid if the system functioned like it did 5 years ago but the last two years when users needed it the most the system is failling.
It's broke and needs help.

 

[webbie]

Pet rocks, fake cellphones and ipods, there is a market for just about anything.

I think Hog can take some pellets - leave them outside his house for a week, and then sell them in 5 lbs containers calling them "Nuclear Pellets".

How about ionizing pellets? Or, we get someone famous and allow them to stand somewhere while we pour pellets over their hands for awhile, then sell celebrity pellets - why, we could even have Tyra Banks cleavage pellets.

I'm starting to get some really good ideas.

After that, we can do that "name a star after someone" routine.

 

[hearthtools]

So far I have loaded 30 tons for our pickup customers

My mill says I can not get any more for 3 weeks.
So Im 50 tons short for the people I have waiting with deposits paid.

 

[jimkelt]

>:-(

 

[hearthtools]

The problem I see from Shipping from east to west and west to east is the trucking cost.

The cost to get it to the YARD that has them in the east then to ship them back to the west would drive up cost.
Like I say over and over The cost of the Pellets are not the cost driver it is the cost of the shipping.

The cost of shipping to me is between $99 - $115 per ton most trucks can only do 21 -22 tons per truck
I was paying less than $50 per ton last year for trucking.

Rail is less money but then you have to pay for trucking from the rail yard to your yard.

I really think the shortage is just NOT STOCKING UP.
I was able to get 3 times I normally get every week.
If people would just buy enough for the season PRE SEASON or at least half and then order more when they get down to 20 days worth.
Right now the amount of orders that have to be filled is kind of like putting 100 gallons of water an hour through a garden hose.
They just cant move that many pellest at once.

 

[restorer]

So far I have loaded 30 tons for our pickup customers

My mill says I can not get any more for 3 weeks.
So Im 50 tons short for the people I have waiting with deposits paid.

Rod:
Think I'd stop taking deposits, and let the customers know just what you told us, emphasize the fact you were bringing three times your normal quantity to help as many a possible. Sounds better than the sellers who brought in a normal seasons order and are out and have little or no way to get them. Tel the customer that when you can get a stable supply, you'll start taking deposits again.

Is your 3 week delay because the mills are trying to help some of the other dealers who are out, or is it a production problem?

I totally agree with you that the answer is more careful distribution, not re-distribution. Shipping is breaking the back of all of us.

Locally we rarely see coal haulers coming this way. Central Utah has lots of coal for electrical production. Down south (in state) there are constant streams of trucks to CA and plants in Western Utah. That's because the trains don't run through the mountains. Up here a couple of coal trains a day feed the local power plant. Of course, they have a 4-5 month supply on hand. The rail as I understand is about 15% the cost of trucking.

We have sustained 10 to 20 degree colder weather than normal here for over a month. We have no crisis, but restricted supply. Stores ordered well this year, but got caught by very high demand, production could not keep up with it. As evidenced by Western pellets on the East Coast.

Next year, maybe some of the light wholesale buyers will catch up with the demand. Do the manufacturers and pellet makers share information? To the pellet makers know how many stoves are out there? Do they know how many owners are moving from occasional to using for primary heat?

Rod, maybe your supplier with surprise you with an early delivery, for being a great customer.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Well, I'm just a little disgusted with the latest exploitation. Here's a couple of eBay listings:

http://tinyurl.com/2zffeg

(broken link removed)


Nothing like the Coast panic.

guy in the second post (with the mailed boxes) needs to clean out his burn pot. all that ash , maybe he is burning the box as well

 

[hearthtools]

So far I have loaded 30 tons for our pickup customers

My mill says I can not get any more for 3 weeks.
So Im 50 tons short for the people I have waiting with deposits paid.

Rod:
Think I'd stop taking deposits, and let the customers know just what you told us, emphasize the fact you were bringing three times your normal quantity to help as many a possible. Sounds better than the sellers who brought in a normal seasons order and are out and have little or no way to get them. Tel the customer that when you can get a stable supply, you'll start taking deposits again.

Is your 3 week delay because the mills are trying to help some of the other dealers who are out, or is it a production problem?

I totally agree with you that the answer is more careful distribution, not re-distribution. Shipping is breaking the back of all of us.

Locally we rarely see coal haulers coming this way. Central Utah has lots of coal for electrical production. Down south (in state) there are constant streams of trucks to CA and plants in Western Utah. That's because the trains don't run through the mountains. Up here a couple of coal trains a day feed the local power plant. Of course, they have a 4-5 month supply on hand. The rail as I understand is about 15% the cost of trucking.

We have sustained 10 to 20 degree colder weather than normal here for over a month. We have no crisis, but restricted supply. Stores ordered well this year, but got caught by very high demand, production could not keep up with it. As evidenced by Western pellets on the East Coast.

Next year, maybe some of the light wholesale buyers will catch up with the demand. Do the manufacturers and pellet makers share information? To the pellet makers know how many stoves are out there? Do they know how many owners are moving from occasional to using for primary heat?

Rod, maybe your supplier with surprise you with an early delivery, for being a great customer.

We stopped taking Deposits Last Wednesday but we are putting people on a NON-guaranteed list to call if we get more.

When we were taking deposits I knew we where going to have some delays. I was not told this but I knew it was coming. So we started booking people for 2 weeks out for pickup/delivery just to be sure. Glad I did.
The people we have on a list for deposit (that we do not have the fuel for yet) were told when they put a deposit that there fuel would be available on the 2-17 and some for 2-24.
So I hope I get some before then.

Most of our better customers pick up or have delivered ALL their pellets in the summer (about 500 tons from June through September) so the load on us in the winter is not as sharp and there not running around like a bunch of dumb @sses looking for pellets in the dead of winter.s

Every year in February we get hit like this because the big box stores stopped selling them.
This year it started Dec. 20th.

The mill is rationing to each supplier according to there normal demands.
I called some other dealers and they are getting the same answer I am.
2 weeks delay in shipments. So my last shipment was 3 trucks this week.

Every year we fill out a Commitment amount contract for the year. And what they do is NOT take any more dealers on for over what they can make by using this commitment contract as a guide.

I’m not sure how things are going to go with Pinnacle in the next month
The Logistic/Sales manager that has help the company grow for the past 5 years has abruptly left the company. And the people running the logistics now are not that experience or tactful as she was.

Had some woman call and get made because we would not sell her any pellets.
(she seen the 90 tons in the yard) said she was going to sue us and send us the bill for her babies hospital bill because her house is cold and she could not find any pellets. We have been getting many phone calls in the same kind of anger.
WHY DO PEOPLE THINK IT IS MY FAULT THEY DID NOT BUY ENOUGH TO GET THROUGH THE SEASON!

We have not raised our price of $265.00 ($5.30 per bag) since the beginning of summer and my cost to get them to me has gone up $15. We did raised our By the bag price from $5.50 per bag to $5.75 if you buy under 25 bags to try to encourage people to stock up more.

 

[Homefire]

Walmart in Auburn NY has 20 tons at
$168

We couldn't get pellets last year at any cost this time of year.

When they finally got back in stock the BOZO PRICE GOUGERS tried to
charge $6-8 a bag. Most of those guys had those same $6-8 bags all summer.

 

[Hogwildz]

Pet rocks, fake cellphones and ipods, there is a market for just about anything.

I think Hog can take some pellets - leave them outside his house for a week, and then sell them in 5 lbs containers calling them "Nuclear Pellets".

How about ionizing pellets? Or, we get someone famous and allow them to stand somewhere while we pour pellets over their hands for awhile, then sell celebrity pellets - why, we could even have Tyra Banks cleavage pellets.

I'm starting to get some really good ideas.

After that, we can do that "name a star after someone" routine.

Listing 1000001: 2 lb. box of glowing green Nukepellets pellets. Guaranteed to last 1 month.
Cost with shipping $500.00 Limited qunatities so order now!
Order today and receive a free complimentary radiation suite. You'll be the envy of the neighborhood!
And as an added bonus you'll get 1 lb of Nukepellet JR. Just dump in yout cars fuel tank, and you'll be good for a month!
But you must act fast, this offer is for a limited time only!

 

[Bob512]

Home Depot has $170 for a ton. Can you order from them and get them to eat the shipping. Quick

 

[restorer]

Pet rocks, fake cellphones and ipods, there is a market for just about anything.

I think Hog can take some pellets - leave them outside his house for a week, and then sell them in 5 lbs containers calling them "Nuclear Pellets".

How about ionizing pellets? Or, we get someone famous and allow them to stand somewhere while we pour pellets over their hands for awhile, then sell celebrity pellets - why, we could even have Tyra Banks cleavage pellets.

I'm starting to get some really good ideas.

After that, we can do that "name a star after someone" routine.

Listing 1000001: 2 lb. box of glowing green Nukepellets pellets. Guaranteed to last 1 month.
Cost with shipping $500.00 Limited qunatities so order now!
Order today and receive a free complimentary radiation suite. You'll be the envy of the neighborhood!
And as an added bonus you'll get 1 lb of Nukepellet JR. Just dump in yout cars fuel tank, and you'll be good for a month!
But you must act fast, this offer is for a limited time only!

Damn: I asked for those for Christmas. Who screwed up? Of course I demanded TMI certified, glow in the dark, put one in the cupboard and no food will spoil quality. Was I expecting too much?

 

[babalu87]

Pet rocks, fake cellphones and ipods, there is a market for just about anything.

BINGO!
At prices like that wouldnt it be cheaper to burn furniture?

Its only exploitation if one is willing to pay for it.

 

[Hogwildz]

Pet rocks, fake cellphones and ipods, there is a market for just about anything.

I think Hog can take some pellets - leave them outside his house for a week, and then sell them in 5 lbs containers calling them "Nuclear Pellets".

How about ionizing pellets? Or, we get someone famous and allow them to stand somewhere while we pour pellets over their hands for awhile, then sell celebrity pellets - why, we could even have Tyra Banks cleavage pellets.

I'm starting to get some really good ideas.

After that, we can do that "name a star after someone" routine.

Listing 1000001: 2 lb. box of glowing green Nukepellets pellets. Guaranteed to last 1 month.
Cost with shipping $500.00 Limited qunatities so order now!
Order today and receive a free complimentary radiation suite. You'll be the envy of the neighborhood!
And as an added bonus you'll get 1 lb of Nukepellet JR. Just dump in yout cars fuel tank, and you'll be good for a month!
But you must act fast, this offer is for a limited time only!

Damn: I asked for those for Christmas. Who screwed up? Of course I demanded TMI certified, glow in the dark, put one in the cupboard and no food will spoil quality. Was I expecting too much?

Not at ll. Put some in your well and it is gauranteed to be bacteria free
Makes a great night light also

 

[webbie]

While I feel for ya Rod, the fact is that you - meaning the entire industry - brings this on itself. In all my years of selling wood, coal and gas products and even solar I have never had a customer threatening to sue me for a cold baby! Nor have I has pissed off people calling for fuel. I once tried selling firewood in 1979 and that lasted about 6 months.

Sooner or later some cases will go to court and I would not be surprised if the customer(s) won. The UCC codes which govern such things talk about an implied fitness of merchantability - meaning that these things should act as good as claimed in the literature, your ads and the promises made by sales people. Customers use the fact that you are selling Pellet stoves as an indicator that plenty of fuel is available.

I spoke to a friend today who has a large shop and didn't sell Pellet stoves because of the problems. This year he decided not to lose the potential profits, so he sold a bunch of Quads and others. Now his top manager is out on service calls almost full time. I told him that was similar to the experience my shop had - the more we sold, the more money and time we lost and the more unhappy customers we had (that was during the first Pellet craze in the 90's).

We also put our heads together and guessed that at least 80% of the stoves sold during that period are no being used today...10-13 years later.//I think the figure is higher (90%+) in many places. Not exactly a lifetime purchase!

I know the appliance makers talk to the mills to some degree. But business being business, each is looking to move product - and they don't care if the pellets go to Italy and the stoves to Ca.

Dealers like our own HarryBack have the right idea - a couple fancy trucks with forklifts, some dedicated service crews and a yard full of fuel - but this is the exception, not the rule. After all, how many dealers can afford $100,000 trucks to deliver pellets, let alone the manpower to drive 'em.

Maybe places like Pelletsales.com will eventually take this hassle off the shoulders of the dealer.

 

[HarryBack]

well, those trucks are actually more like $175,000-$200,000 each....wish they were only $100,000. Its odd that last year, the 2005-2006 heating season, us folks in the east couldnt get pellets, while the west was flush with them. This year, its reversed. Believe it or not, we have a surplus of pellets out here this year. I even have companies calling me trying to sell their pellets for this season....yeeesh, Ive got 7 types, not sure i really want to have 8 or 9 or 10......

As for people threatening to sue, there really is nothing you can do about that....we live in a litigious society where its "never our fault", as evidenced by the gal with no pellets......its not Rod's fault she doesnt have the sense to buy pellets early...its her own. Burger King gets sued for making folks fat, McDonalds sues for selling hot coffee, etc. hey, Lets get the gummint involved! Create a whole new beaurocracy to regulate pellets! Hire workers for admin, hire inspectors, hire regulators, hire PhD "experts" in the field, hire them a couple of assistants, assistants to assistants, assistant deputies, a few lawyers to ensure everythings on the up-and-up, and Im sure the pellet prices will fall! I think we all see how well government regulation works, dont we? insurance is regulated here....it works wonderfully....NOT.

As for stocking pellet fuel, I need an incentive to do that. If the pellet companies dont start giving discounts for early buys, like they didnt do in '06, there is no real reason for me to stock half a million dollars' worth of pellets, take the risks of ownership for 6-9 months, try to give my customers a break by giving them a discount to buy early. I can always just broker pellets, I guess.....I wouldnt own any, just sell them to folks and buy from the mill when I have to deliver them. But the problem there is, what happens if the mill goes down, burns, or closes? Then Im out of business, arent I? And what about the delivery infrastructure? Even Pelletsales.com has to have someone deliver pellets and pay them accordingly. This is a scheduling nightmare too, trust me....everyone only wants their pellets on the Saturday before it gets cold, and only on sunny days, between 12:15 and 1:00 pm, and not when they are on vacation, and they want it airlifted to the impossible location in the pristine backyard on t'other side of the koi pond, and dont bend a blade of my precious Thai Bradenensis Bluegrass, or they'll sue the pants off you! the toughest part of this biz is trying to appease all the folks, particularly with delivery. So, you do your best, try to keep up with delivery, which is impossible, and also, dont forget, try to make money too!

Dont worry tho, we'll see yet another supply swing in '07, with not enough pellets in the east, and alot in the west....yet another correction.

Maybe we should let the gummint regulate firewood too.......maybe you need to get a permit before you can cut a tree down, fill out shipping papers proving their provenance, and of course, dont forget the capitol gains taxes for receiving free fuel.....since you arent paying for your wood, and it has value of around $200/cord, hey, the gummint wont get its cut, will it? We should certainly have a team of investigators who investigate the stove permits and try to figure out where the wood is coming from, and who isnt paying their share to the gummint of that capitol gain? Like that?? Didnt think so.

 

[restorer]

While I feel for ya Rod, the fact is that you - meaning the entire industry - brings this on itself. In all my years of selling wood, coal and gas products and even solar I have never had a customer threatening to sue me for a cold baby! Nor have I has pissed off people calling for fuel. I once tried selling firewood in 1979 and that lasted about 6 months.

Sooner or later some cases will go to court and I would not be surprised if the customer(s) won. The UCC codes which govern such things talk about an implied fitness of merchantability - meaning that these things should act as good as claimed in the literature, your ads and the promises made by sales people. Customers use the fact that you are selling Pellet stoves as an indicator that plenty of fuel is available.

I spoke to a friend today who has a large shop and didn't sell Pellet stoves because of the problems. This year he decided not to lose the potential profits, so he sold a bunch of Quads and others. Now his top manager is out on service calls almost full time. I told him that was similar to the experience my shop had - the more we sold, the more money and time we lost and the more unhappy customers we had (that was during the first Pellet craze in the 90's).

We also put our heads together and guessed that at least 80% of the stoves sold during that period are no being used today...10-13 years later.//I think the figure is higher (90%+) in many places. Not exactly a lifetime purchase!

I know the appliance makers talk to the mills to some degree. But business being business, each is looking to move product - and they don't care if the pellets go to Italy and the stoves to Ca.

Dealers like our own HarryBack have the right idea - a couple fancy trucks with forklifts, some dedicated service crews and a yard full of fuel - but this is the exception, not the rule. After all, how many dealers can afford $100,000 trucks to deliver pellets, let alone the manpower to drive 'em.

Maybe places like Pelletsales.com will eventually take this hassle off the shoulders of the dealer.

Craig, not disagreeing with you comletley, but Rod's potential law suit is because he won't sell the lady pellets. That's not a product liability, it's an issue that she can see bags, but doesn't understand they are sold. That to me is a classic, "I don't care what you say, I want them, and I am going to threaten you." Take her name, write it down and give it to every employee with the instruction that there is nothing in your store she needs, or can buy." That is a problem customer who will never be satisfied.

The issue is not the stove, but the fuel. It is not available in certain areas. There is no right to pellets, just the same as no right to wood to burn, or natural gas, or propane. No one can force a private business to sell, including the government.

At the same time you estimate that 90% of the early pellet stoves are out of service, you give no comparables for wood burners out of service.How many stove made in the 90's are still inservice? In fact frequently this forum has castigated owners for wanting to install a non-EPA wood burner as a dragon fire dangerous at best. Yet as I see things, working 90's vintage pellet stoves still burn cleaner than wood burners. If I'm wrong tell me.

Last point I want to make is, if we didn't try to advance the industry at all times, we'd still be burning open fires with holes in the roof, or not (but that would kill off the clan). Furnaces whether wood, coal, oil, propane or natural gas, are products that went through stages of development. Even the wood stove of today is by far much more sophisticated than the Franklin's of 30 years ago. Who knows, maybe the next innovation of the wood stove is "air injected burners that boost efficiency to 90% and reduce ash to less than 1%." That would hook the wood stove to the electron grid.

Don't forget that all stove designs are a product of a highly sophisticated design and manufacturing process. Everyone benefits from our advances.

 

[restorer]

well, those trucks are actually more like $175,000-$200,000 each....wish they were only $100,000. Its odd that last year, the 2005-2006 heating season, us folks in the east couldnt get pellets, while the west was flush with them. This year, its reversed. Believe it or not, we have a surplus of pellets out here this year. I even have companies calling me trying to sell their pellets for this season....yeeesh, Ive got 7 types, not sure i really want to have 8 or 9 or 10......

As for people threatening to sue, there really is nothing you can do about that....we live in a litigious society where its "never our fault", as evidenced by the gal with no pellets......its not Rod's fault she doesnt have the sense to buy pellets early...its her own. Burger King gets sued for making folks fat, McDonalds sues for selling hot coffee, etc. hey, Lets get the gummint involved! Create a whole new beaurocracy to regulate pellets! Hire workers for admin, hire inspectors, hire regulators, hire PhD "experts" in the field, hire them a couple of assistants, assistants to assistants, assistant deputies, a few lawyers to ensure everythings on the up-and-up, and Im sure the pellet prices will fall! I think we all see how well government regulation works, dont we? insurance is regulated here....it works wonderfully....NOT.

As for stocking pellet fuel, I need an incentive to do that. If the pellet companies dont start giving discounts for early buys, like they didnt do in '06, there is no real reason for me to stock half a million dollars' worth of pellets, take the risks of ownership for 6-9 months, try to give my customers a break by giving them a discount to buy early. I can always just broker pellets, I guess.....I wouldnt own any, just sell them to folks and buy from the mill when I have to deliver them. But the problem there is, what happens if the mill goes down, burns, or closes? Then Im out of business, arent I? And what about the delivery infrastructure? Even Pelletsales.com has to have someone deliver pellets and pay them accordingly. This is a scheduling nightmare too, trust me....everyone only wants their pellets on the Saturday before it gets cold, and only on sunny days, between 12:15 and 1:00 pm, and not when they are on vacation, and they want it airlifted to the impossible location in the pristine backyard on t'other side of the koi pond, and dont bend a blade of my precious Thai Bradenensis Bluegrass, or they'll sue the pants off you! the toughest part of this biz is trying to appease all the folks, particularly with delivery. So, you do your best, try to keep up with delivery, which is impossible, and also, dont forget, try to make money too!

Dont worry tho, we'll see yet another supply swing in '07, with not enough pellets in the east, and alot in the west....yet another correction.

Maybe we should let the gummint regulate firewood too.......maybe you need to get a permit before you can cut a tree down, fill out shipping papers proving their provenance, and of course, dont forget the capitol gains taxes for receiving free fuel.....since you arent paying for your wood, and it has value of around $200/cord, hey, the gummint wont get its cut, will it? We should certainly have a team of investigators who investigate the stove permits and try to figure out where the wood is coming from, and who isnt paying their share to the gummint of that capitol gain? Like that?? Didnt think so.

To twist a quote, "you can please some of the people some of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time". That said, you can only go so far, then the customer has to take responsibility. If they want delivery, it's so much a mile and so much an hour per man. If you want them placed behind the Koi pond and no damage, meaning a bag at a time, estimate the charges and collect up front. Household movers get paid that way. Why should pellet deliverers or for that matter cord wood deliverers get anything less. If the customer balks tell them you'll stack at the curb, so there is no damage to their property.

The government is already regulating, use the rules to your advantage.

 

[mgambuzza]

Walmart in Auburn NY has 20 tons at
$168

We couldn't get pellets last year at any cost this time of year.

When they finally got back in stock the BOZO PRICE GOUGERS tried to
charge $6-8 a bag. Most of those guys had those same $6-8 bags all summer.

I'm planning on stopping at the Auburn site tomorrow. Is this the one before the old "Auburn Plaza"? That is a great price. Have you burned any of their pellets? What is the results?

 

[Homefire]

They burn just fine, the only drawback is Cayuga charges a 4% fuel tax ....thats about 14 bucks
still thats a good price.
Walmart right on rt 5 befor the old plaza

 

[begreen]

Pet rocks, fake cellphones and ipods, there is a market for just about anything.

I think Hog can take some pellets - leave them outside his house for a week, and then sell them in 5 lbs containers calling them "Nuclear Pellets".

How about ionizing pellets? Or, we get someone famous and allow them to stand somewhere while we pour pellets over their hands for awhile, then sell celebrity pellets - why, we could even have Tyra Banks cleavage pellets.

I'm starting to get some really good ideas.

After that, we can do that "name a star after someone" routine.

How about aluminum coated pellets!

 

[webbie]

Wow, I bet I could coat them with molten metal before they burn - and put some on a pedastal.

This way we could sell them as a lifetime supply. Never burn up..... I'll try it next time I melt.

My previous comment on the liability is based on this:
"implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that if a merchant (meaning someone who makes an occupation of selling things) sells something, that merchant is guaranteeing that the goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are sold."

This can be extended to mean that I can't sell you a car that runs on 100 octane gas and "imply" that it is easily available. I would bet that there are many ads for Pellet stoves that seem to tell the customer they will save money and therefore - as an extension - that fuel is readily available at a decent price.

Whether or not it ever gets to a court of law, it still stands as far as satisfied customers. Out of "x" customers who buy Pellet stoves, we have to ask how many will have a negative experience regarding the fuel. And, if they stop using their stove even because of fuel price, they are less likely to tell their friends to buy one. So the point stands either way.

The front page of the NY Times today mentions how the Saudis are trying to keep the price of oil at about $50 - they found out that a higher price makes consumer goods more expensive which then affects the economy and then comes back to bite them.

So this is what I am saying needs to be done between the stove makers, retailers, pellet mills, etc. - they have to work together to bring the fuel to the customer for the best price possible. Sure, firewood isn't guaranteed either, but most stores don't claim to sell it. Also, the customer gets a negative impression when the local store wants $300 and the Wal-Mart less than $200. All these things create bad blood for the stove shop.

 

[Jake]

After that, we can do that "name a star after someone" routine.

Funny you mention that, Last year, my hardwood flooring company put ALOT of expensive hardwood in that guy's house... As goofy as it souonds, he's doing something right.....

 

[restorer]

Wow, I bet I could coat them with molten metal before they burn - and put some on a pedastal.

This way we could sell them as a lifetime supply. Never burn up..... I'll try it next time I melt.

My previous comment on the liability is based on this:
"implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that if a merchant (meaning someone who makes an occupation of selling things) sells something, that merchant is guaranteeing that the goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are sold."

This can be extended to mean that I can't sell you a car that runs on 100 octane gas and "imply" that it is easily available. I would bet that there are many ads for Pellet stoves that seem to tell the customer they will save money and therefore - as an extension - that fuel is readily available at a decent price.

Whether or not it ever gets to a court of law, it still stands as far as satisfied customers. Out of "x" customers who buy Pellet stoves, we have to ask how many will have a negative experience regarding the fuel. And, if they stop using their stove even because of fuel price, they are less likely to tell their friends to buy one. So the point stands either way.

The front page of the NY Times today mentions how the Saudis are trying to keep the price of oil at about $50 - they found out that a higher price makes consumer goods more expensive which then affects the economy and then comes back to bite them.

So this is what I am saying needs to be done between the stove makers, retailers, pellet mills, etc. - they have to work together to bring the fuel to the customer for the best price possible. Sure, firewood isn't guaranteed either, but most stores don't claim to sell it. Also, the customer gets a negative impression when the local store wants $300 and the Wal-Mart less than $200. All these things create bad blood for the stove shop.

Craig, I see your thinking here. The same analogy could be used for all products that depend on an after market component. But this is a temporary situation. Using Rod's delay of three weeks, I would guess the emphasis will be on shipping to the critically short areas first and then back to a schedule. I'm sure there will be a shortage still, but at least some stock available. If the sellers are smart they will control their distribution and KEEP THE PRICE DOWN. The sellers who exploit the shortage and charge $10. per bag will sell, of course, but not after the crisis. The public will remember, and may drag in the state consumer protection folks. Another benefit may be that those needing pellets for primary heating will stock up in the off season. That should take some of the pressure off the radical swings in purchases. For the casual burner they can wait until January and say, "Oh Well".