Pellet insert worth it?

[frankv]

Hi,

We're ready to replace our gas fireplace insert with a pellet insert. Even though the gas unit (Heat-N Glo 6000XLT, about 16yrs old) is rated for up to 74% efficiency and around 30,000 BTUs output, it's in need of repair (will light but not stay on), never put out huge amounts of heat and propane runs about $4 here.

The initial idea was just to get a working fireplace to heat up the family room, but after reading some of the posts here we're hoping to cut down on our oil bill, especially given the high cost of the pellet stove and flue installation ($7-8K before rebates). We used about $5K in oil last year, and our burner has about 85-86% efficiency according to the technician's printout.

When I plug in the numbers on the fuel cost calculator, it shows a 25% savings (vs oil) for a normal home if pellets cost $300/ton, and a 35% savings at $250/ton. In our case, due to the layout and size of the house, the pellet insert would supplement but not nearly replace the central oil heater.

We would also need to get the unit serviced once a year ($200), get the chimney cleaned, run the central heating system fan in continuous mode to help with circulating the heat from the stove, and have the added electricity cost from running the stove 24/7. Past the initial warranty period, parts/repair costs will occur.

I know that nobody here will be able to help much with the specifics of our situation, there are just too many unknowns. But has anybody second guessed their decision to buy a pellet stove, and if so, why?

Frank

 

[pinetop12]

Frank,
This is our first year with a pellet stove. We consider the pellet stove the best investment we have made in the house. Looking for a 2nd unit for the cellar , to complete the heating puzzle.

Good Luck

 

[chken]

Hi,

We're ready to replace our gas fireplace insert with a pellet insert. Even though the gas unit (Heat-N Glo 6000XLT, about 16yrs old) is rated for up to 74% efficiency and around 30,000 BTUs output, it's in need of repair (will light but not stay on), never put out huge amounts of heat and propane runs about $4 here.

The initial idea was just to get a working fireplace to heat up the family room, but after reading some of the posts here we're hoping to cut down on our oil bill, especially given the high cost of the pellet stove and flue installation ($7-8K before rebates). We used about $5K in oil last year, and our burner has about 85-86% efficiency according to the technician's printout.

When I plug in the numbers on the fuel cost calculator, it shows a 25% savings (vs oil) for a normal home if pellets cost $300/ton, and a 35% savings at $250/ton. In our case, due to the layout and size of the house, the pellet insert would supplement but not nearly replace the central oil heater.

We would also need to get the unit serviced once a year ($200), get the chimney cleaned, run the central heating system fan in continuous mode to help with circulating the heat from the stove, and have the added electricity cost from running the stove 24/7. Past the initial warranty period, parts/repair costs will occur.

I know that nobody here will be able to help much with the specifics of our situation, there are just too many unknowns. But has anybody second guessed their decision to buy a pellet stove, and if so, why?

Frank

Of course, I'm sure everyone has 2nd thoughts about every large financial decision. My thoughts run to labor and payback period. The labor just isn't every day spending 5-10 mins, loading the hopper and scraping the fire pot and wiping the glass and vacuuming the ash pan, it's also getting the pellets, moving them into my basement, etc. The time adds up. Then of course, I figure I can save $500 in fuel costs a year. Given my stove installation cost me about $3500, that's 7 years to pay it back. As far as I'm concerned a 7-yr payback is marginal. Any longer and I wouldn't have done it. Currently, I don't have regrets, but I wish the financial math was more compelling. Of course, I could have bought myself a cheaper stove!

 

[Pellet-King]

Better off buying a better central heating system, or just using what you got and find a used wood stove

 

[TriMom]

Do you have different zones for your oil heat? Use pellet stove to heat part of your house and use oil to heat rest.

Last year we put in 2 pellet stoves different sides of our main level of our house and a new free standing wood burning stove in the basement. The two pellet stoves we bought were used.

Due to the layout of our house which is not open but with doors and hallways, one pellet stove would not do the whole house. One side would have done most of the house but not the kitchen side.

We used 800-900 gallons of oil in past years and are stingy on heat keeping house at 66 and it has separate oil burner for hot water.

This year we bought 5.4 tons of pellets. Our main floor of our house is warmer at 72 than we kept it with oil. Bedrooms upstairs are bit cooler. We do use upstairs zone for heat when it is really cold but keep it set at 60. Paying $1500 for pellets is much better than $4K for oil plus service, and a cord of firewood. We did drop our oil contract and service plan so that is an offset.

Our costs for heat this year will be half of what it would have been with straight oil with main living area being warmer and bedrooms a bit cooler.

Depends on how quickly you want to see a return and what the price of oil and pellets does in the future. How long you expect to be in your house? Your oil costs are higher so your potential savings could be greater. I don't think the 25% savings figure you used is accurate in our house and we burn premium pellets.

One consideration we should have thought about is the noise. Some stoves are loud and depending on what room it is can be annoying.

Did you shop around for a price on your possible stove and install?

 

[skrypj]

Right now its looking like I will be paying $1250-$1500 to heat my house for the winter. I am using ~1 ton a month, maybe a little more this month with the frigid weather. That is at $250 a ton.

In my case the primary heat source in my house was electric and I paid $250 in heat for oct-nov alone with the t-stats set to 55F when i was home and 50F when i was gone. With the pellet stove I am keeping the house at 65-70F. You can imagine how horrific the heating costs would have been now that its been so cold. I am guessing that I would have been paying many thousands more a year on the electric, especially if I was running the house at the same temperature.

 

[tjnamtiw]

I posted recently about the con's of an insert after learning twice about them! If you have room for a free standing unit, you would be better off. You can get bigger (more btu's) free standers, they are easier to work on, and easier, possibly, to vent if you can put it near a suitable wall. Yes, inserts take up no room and look neat but they have small hoppers, need more expensive vent pipe, might be difficult to run outside air to the combustion chamber, are harder to work on, and don't put out as much heat as many of the free standers. Plus you have eliminated the possibility of an occasional romantic wood fire in an emergency.

It also sounds like your analysis is steering you toward relying on outside people to do your maintenance/repair. UNLESS you have an excellent dealer, you will be waiting for service and getting cold. Most people learn pretty quickly to do their own maintenance and troubleshooting.

Finally, a pellet stove is a SPACE HEATER. It will NOT evenly heat your house. It won't even come CLOSE to doing that. Very few people have posted on here that they run their central heating fan continuously and those that have, including me, find that it doesn't work very well. In my case, my pipes run in the cold crawl space and I lose what little heat the pellet stove generates to the losses under the house.

Finally finally, being in Maryland, if you have a reasonable cost for anthracite coal, you would be much better off going that route with one of the new generation free standing coal burners, some of which are stokers. http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm This is a great comparison chart that takes into account your distribution system.

 

[guitarjamman]

If my pellet stove (insert) crapped the bed tomorrow, then tomorrow morning I would head to the local dealer and buy another. I am saving about $2,000 per season due to not using oil, and I actually enjoy servicing my stove/cleaning the whole system. With my savings, I break even in two years on a new unit. Granted, I would install it myself and service everything I could, but take comfort in knowing that regular cleanings will keep these stoves happy.

I solely use my stove to heat the house - 1,900 SF with a lot of doors and hallways. There are certain rooms which never really come to temperature, but I tend to just close those doors on cold days and forget they exist. If you want even heat throughout the whole house, I would look elsewhere.

 

[JoeS]

Hi,

We're ready to replace our gas fireplace insert with a pellet insert. Even though the gas unit (Heat-N Glo 6000XLT, about 16yrs old) is rated for up to 74% efficiency and around 30,000 BTUs output, it's in need of repair (will light but not stay on), never put out huge amounts of heat and propane runs about $4 here.

Frank

You said gas fireplace insert?

What type gas?

 

[Mt Bob]

If I had to move back to MD I would check into coal.Had a coal insert quite some years ago when I lived there,loved it.Bank a 5 gal bucket in and it would burn fo almost 3 days!

 

[JoeS]

If I had to move back to MD I would check into coal.Had a coal insert quite some years ago when I lived there,loved it.Bank a 5 gal bucket in and it would burn fo almost 3 days!

Natural Gas prices in my area are at historical lows.

If your fortunate enough to be able to tap the NG that is the way to go!

 

[tjnamtiw]

If I had to move back to MD I would check into coal.Had a coal insert quite some years ago when I lived there,loved it.Bank a 5 gal bucket in and it would burn fo almost 3 days!

Yep, in the 80's I had a Franco-Belge top loader free standing that heated my house in Reading, Pa all winter on 3 tons of coal and my 1300 sq ft house stayed at 76+ all winter! Really spoiled me! Today, if I went and got the coal it would be 3 X $172 (Tamaqua) at the breaker. Even at $250 a ton, it's a no brainer.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Natural Gas prices in my area are at historical lows.

If your fortunate enough to be able to tap the NG that is the way to go!

For now, that's absolutely the best way to go for anyone out of reach of coal but NG is about to skyrocket in cost.

 

[Mt Bob]

Yep, in the 80's I had a Franco-Belge top loader free standing that heated my house in Reading, Pa all winter on 3 tons of coal and my 1300 sq ft house stayed at 76+ all winter! Really spoiled me! Today, if I went and got the coal it would be 3 X $172 (Tamaqua) at the breaker. Even at $250 a ton, it's a no brainer.

Yep I had a glaicer bay insert,manual control,shaker grate system that weighed about 100 lbs.Had to shake it once a day,ended up heating the whole living area,not the basement.

 

[JoeS]

For now, that's absolutely the best way to go for anyone out of reach of coal but NG is about to skyrocket in cost.

I don't know, fracking has made oil and gas so accessible.

What makes you think otherwise!

Even the Middle East is afraid of our supplies!

 

[tjnamtiw]

I don't know, fracking has made oil and gas so accessible.

What makes you think otherwise!

Even the Middle East is afraid of our supplies!

You haven't been reading the news or you're watching the wrong networks. The cold spell is expected to make NG spike but long term, the effect of relying on NG to generate electricity will cause it to rise dramatically as coal generating plants are EPA'd out of existence as promised. Where for instance will Ohio get the 90% of the electricity that is generated by coal? Hmmmm, who did they vote for??? Around here in Georgia, we have huge new NG generating farms that fire up every summer to meet the electrical demands. Our nuke plants are getting old and won't be replaced for quite a while. NG plants can be built rapidly. It's not rocket science and you don't need a crystal ball to see where we are being led.

 

[Mt Bob]

You haven't been reading the news or you're watching the wrong networks. The cold spell is expected to make NG spike but long term, the effect of relying on NG to generate electricity will cause it to rise dramatically as coal generating plants are EPA'd out of existence as promised. Where for instance will Ohio get the 90% of the electricity that is generated by coal? Hmmmm, who did they vote for??? Around here in Georgia, we have huge new NG generating farms that fire up every summer to meet the electrical demands. Our nuke plants are getting old and won't be replaced for quite a while. NG plants can be built rapidly. It's not rocket science and you don't need a crystal ball to see where we are being led.

They are mining and shipping way more coal out here and is my understanding most of it is being shipped to china.

 

[tjnamtiw]

They are mining and shipping way more coal out here and is my understanding most of it is being shipped to china.

That's correct. The coal we are not allowed to use because we will pollute the earth is being shipped to China to fuel the new coal fired plants that they are building on a 10 year program of completing one new plant every month. Do you think that they give a flip about polluting the earth with the coal that WE should be using for our affordable energy??? 'Your electrical rates will necessarily skyrocket'............ What is wrong with this picture?

Actually, they are in a new 5 year plan for more of the same hidden in their political BS. They are also importing coal from Australia. They don't have enough of their own to support their needs.

 

[JoeS]

You haven't been reading the news or you're watching the wrong networks. The cold spell is expected to make NG spike but long term, the effect of relying on NG to generate electricity will cause it to rise dramatically as coal generating plants are EPA'd out of existence as promised. Where for instance will Ohio get the 90% of the electricity that is generated by coal? Hmmmm, who did they vote for??? Around here in Georgia, we have huge new NG generating farms that fire up every summer to meet the electrical demands. Our nuke plants are getting old and won't be replaced for quite a while. NG plants can be built rapidly. It's not rocket science and you don't need a crystal ball to see where we are being led.

There is just too much supply and I believe you are wrong on this and yes I listen to all sides of the so called news.

Oil and NG prices will decline in the coming years.

Google NG long term future prices and read what the analyst predict.

 

[tjnamtiw]

OK............

 

[briansol]

oil is leveling, NG is poised to go 25% up according to a yahoo finance article I read this week

 

[tjnamtiw]

''The relatively recent shift towards use of natural gas for the generation of electricity has resulted in an anomaly in this traditional cyclical behavior. While requirements for natural gas heating decrease during the summer months, demand for space cooling increases during this warmer season. Electricity provides the primary source of energy for residential and commercial cooling requirements, leading to an increase in demand for electricity. Because natural gas is used to generate a large portion of electricity in the United States, increased electrical demand often means increased natural gas demand. This results in a smaller spike in natural gas demand during the warmest months of the year. Thus, natural gas demand experiences its most pronounced increase in the coldest months, but as the use of natural gas for the generation of electricity increases, the magnitude of the smaller summer peak in demand for natural gas is expected to become more pronounced.''

(broken link removed to http://www.naturalgas.org/business/demand.asp)

''The demand for electricity is predicted by the EIA to increase by an average rate of 1 percent per year through 2035. In order to meet this growing demand, EIA predicts that 223 gigawatts of new electric generation capacity will be needed by 2035. Because of the relatively low capital requirements for building natural gas-fired combined cycle generation plants, as well as the reduction of emissions that can be earned from using natural gas as opposed to other fossil fuels, the EIA expects 60 percent of new electric generation capacity built by 2035 will be natural gas combined-cycle or combustion turbine generation.''

 

[fmsm]

KEYSTONE! It will moderate the price of NG and WILL happen!

That being said OP, what is the layout of your house? how many square feet are you trying to heat?

 

[PoolGuyinCT]

Hi,

We're ready to replace our gas fireplace insert with a pellet insert. Even though the gas unit (Heat-N Glo 6000XLT, about 16yrs old) is rated for up to 74% efficiency and around 30,000 BTUs output, it's in need of repair (will light but not stay on), never put out huge amounts of heat and propane runs about $4 here.

The initial idea was just to get a working fireplace to heat up the family room, but after reading some of the posts here we're hoping to cut down on our oil bill, especially given the high cost of the pellet stove and flue installation ($7-8K before rebates). We used about $5K in oil last year, and our burner has about 85-86% efficiency according to the technician's printout.

When I plug in the numbers on the fuel cost calculator, it shows a 25% savings (vs oil) for a normal home if pellets cost $300/ton, and a 35% savings at $250/ton. In our case, due to the layout and size of the house, the pellet insert would supplement but not nearly replace the central oil heater.

We would also need to get the unit serviced once a year ($200), get the chimney cleaned, run the central heating system fan in continuous mode to help with circulating the heat from the stove, and have the added electricity cost from running the stove 24/7. Past the initial warranty period, parts/repair costs will occur.

I know that nobody here will be able to help much with the specifics of our situation, there are just too many unknowns. But has anybody second guessed their decision to buy a pellet stove, and if so, why?

Frank

Light but not stay on? a multimeter or a service tech can solve that one.

Ray

 

[tjnamtiw]

Light but not stay on? a multimeter or a service tech can solve that one.

Ray

Sounds like the 'proof of fire' thermocouple wasn't sensing the flame.