Pellet prices this winter

[tinkabranc]

NEWP brought bulk pellet out of western canada by rail and bagged it under their name in Palmer Ma. They had a lot of trouble with these pellets. If you got pleets manufactured in Jaffrey NH you were fine.

I highly doubt the trouble was with the Green Supremes bagged in Palmer. I have been burning these pellets
for a few years now and they are my ultimate favorite. I have 4.5 ton of them left in my supply to
burn before I have move onto a new brand for next season. They are green bags with tan lettering.

NEWP also has/had softwood pellets coming out of Jaffrey but I have never tried them. They are tan
bags with green lettering.

 

[Stentor]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703298004574457512739866456.html

Is there any "official" list of pellet prices and trends available to the public online?

Today's Wall Street Journal has a story that reports natural gas will drop around 12% and electricity and heating oil around 2% but I wonder if there are any predictions about wood pellets. Supply seems OK and prices are down a bit here in Mass. and southern NH, but that's just my impression. Any facts out there to look at?

 

[Fsappo]

After speaking with a few pellet manufacturers, they all told me:
They have pellets made and waiting to ship but the orders are slow
They are considering freezing or reversing price increases implemented over the summer

I think folks are seeing that (at least in Central NY) Natural gas is cheaper then pellets, so why bother. Fuel oil and LP gas are about the same cost as pellets, so why bother.

The only folks who are ahead of the game locally are the ones I sold new style Europas to the past 2 years.

If Oil=Pellet $ in a typical stove and Europa burns 35-40% less fuel than a typical stove, Pellet heating with Europa=35-40% cheaper than oil/lp

Thats the easy math. Folks that have typical pellet stoves though are buying less pellets and watching the price of heating oil before deciding if they will dump a bag of pellets in the stove or hit the old thermostat.

 

[Clay H]

And based on post number 2, pellet prices will have to drop or they will not move.
I filled the propane tank for 1.30 a gal and bought one ton of pellets rather than the usual 2.5 tons.
When they prices fall in Dec. (I predict) i'll go buy more.

 

[imacman]

And based on post number 2, pellet prices will have to drop or they will not move.......

I agree.....if heating oil, nat. gas, electricity, and propane stay the same, or go lower, I don't see how the pellet producers cannot lower their prices. They DO NOT want to sit on what they have have in their yards already.

As Clay said, if the pellets keep coming down, I may have to snatch another ton in Dec.

 

[minnow]

I went with pre-buy on fuel oil at $2.30 a gallon. The cost is slightly higher (about $100 for the entire heating season) than pellets but there is no work to heating with oil and the whole house is warm instead of a few rooms. A local farm store is still trying to sell Barefoots at $300/ton. His yard is full of unsold pallets. The local Wal-mart is trying to peddle whatever off brand they have sitting in the rain for $290. I don't get it. Lowes had a good deal in September but by then I had already locked in and I'm not about to spend scarce dollars for pellets I don't need this year. I hope the pellet producers choke on their overpriced inventory this winter. Maybe they will learn a valuable lesson. That being, all thing considered, most people refuse to overpay for compressed sawdust.

 

[cac4]

yeah, I don't get it, either. I don't recall seeing any particular "bargains" this spring...prices seem to hold around 300/ton, everywhere I looked. Even the local stove/pellet dealer's prices have been steady; same now as they were at the end of last winter. The only dip I noticed at all was at the big-boxes, and thats just in the last couple of months.
The place where I bought has had the same price listed on their website since the spring...and they have "tons" on hand, still. doesn't look like they're going to run out anytime soon. I'm thinking that they bought when prices were still high, from last years shortage, bought way more than they otherwise would have, because they were turning customers away last year due to lack of supply, and now, they're stuck with a large inventory of inflated pellets. If they lower their prices, they'll be selling at a loss. Might take a while to see any relief at the retail level.

 

[Amaralluis]

So if a ton of heating oil (332.85 gallons) cost $2.30 per gallon, that would equal $765.56 for dead dinosaur.. that sounds expensive when you do the math that way doesn’t it…?
I guess it’s safe to say you probably won’t be buying any of my “pretty little pellets”, this season huh?…I’m just messing with you…… ;-)

I guess then the question is, how long would one ton of oil last compared to a one ton of Pellets?
Its a serious question because I never had oil so I dont know how long 332gal of oil would last.
All I know is that in the cold months one bag is not enough, so one ton pellets would last approx one month. How about oil?

 

[minnow]

I can heat my house for about 600 gallons a year. When using pellets exclusively (like I have for the past 4 years), I average 3 1/2 tons. At $300/ ton that's $1050 for pellets. I bought 500 gallons of oil at $2.30 which is $1150. I already had a tank full of oil from previous years. So dollar outlay for this winter was $100 more than what I would of paid for pellets. If you figure we heat the house for 6 months of the year that works out to be $16.66 a month more for oil then pellets. When you figure what your time worth is not hauling pellets from store (not to mention the gasoline $$ in my truck to get pellets or pay for delivery from vendor) and no time needed to clean stove then $16 a month is a bargain. One little added bonus is that the whole house is warm instead of two or three rooms. Now if I had waited before locking in my oil price and got in on the Lowes rebate deal, then yes pellets would be cheaper than oil. But I have always had my next years supply bought, hauled and stored well before June (This is the first year I can remember when pellets actually got cheaper the closer to winter we got !). If pellet manufacturers and dealers decide to get real next year, and the price returns to a resonable level, then I'll be burning again.

 

[TboneMan]

I agree that pellet manufactures will likely start discounting. I suspect however, we'll likely see little movement prior to February. Their product is not perishable. If they have a glut of pellets on their lots come the end of February, we'll like see the return of "early bird" specials that are actually "specials".

With more plants coming on line and demand stabilizing, prices will have to come down.

As for oil base products.... enjoy it while you can. We're still one miss placed bomb, assassination, pipeline disruption, "cap and trade" vote, or US recovery that doesn't not involve the US actually manufacturing anything, away from the outrageous crude prices seen in '07-'08.

Like dealing with investments, you have to be comfortable with the amount of risk you assume. Pellets prices will rise and fall at a much lesser amplitude than oil.

I've got pellets in the garage, I'm burning them. 1) So that I can walk through the garage more easily next summer, 2) their paid for 3) there's no sense in paying twice to heat the house. Will I use the furnace a little more this year (propane), sure. But now that I'm using less than 200 gal of propane a year (vs. 900), I kind of like it. My pellets are made 75 mile from my house for wood sourced withing the state of NY.

 

[bobforsaken]

I hope the pellet prices drop soon, or else I may have a tough time convincing my wife the purchase was necessary vs paying 1/3 as much to get a good propane stove installed in my new area. Logic would dictate that the prices will fall after the fall rush to get supply. If everyone buys a only enough to get by instead of enough for the winter, I think the prices will drop in mid winter if fossil fuel prices stay low. I'm going to buy a Ton and wait to get the rest.

What would be considered a good price for pellets? $225/ton? More or less?

 

[Fsappo]

We're selling at $289 per ton right now. We offered our regular customers a chance to buy in May/June for $269 per ton. Very few took advantage and are calling me now. I guess laying out $1100 5 months before you have to to save $80 didnt seem worth it.

Thats why my showroom has Pellet stoves +Gas, Wood and Coal. Be ready to sell what folks need, regardless.

 

[TboneMan]

We're selling at $289 per ton right now. We offered our regular customers a chance to buy in May/June for $269 per ton. Very few took advantage and are calling me now. I guess laying out $1100 5 months before you have to to save $80 didnt seem worth it.

Thats why my showroom has Pellet stoves +Gas, Wood and Coal. Be ready to sell what folks need, regardless.

That's a bit high based on what I've seen in the area. What brand?

There are other distributors and retailers selling at the $255-$265/ton range. My early buy was $250/ton from a central NY distributor of NEWP's.

 

[Fsappo]

PA Pellets. Did you use the NE wood pellets last season? Last year close to half of the calls I got asking me to help with pellet stove issues (from customers who didnt buy stoves from us) Told me they were using NE Pellets and their problems were solved after a good cleaning by us and using the PA pellets. But if they are working good for you then the ole "Different stoves like different pellets" May just apply. At 289 per ton we are making about 50 bucks per ton profit, which barely covers the propane for the forklift and the time spent unloading and loading them up for customers.

 

[TboneMan]

PA Pellets. Did you use the NE wood pellets last season? Last year close to half of the calls I got asking me to help with pellet stove issues (from customers who didnt buy stoves from us) Told me they were using NE Pellets and their problems were solved after a good cleaning by us and using the PA pellets. But if they are working good for you then the ole "Different stoves like different pellets" May just apply. At 289 per ton we are making about 50 bucks per ton profit, which barely covers the propane for the forklift and the time spent unloading and loading them up for customers.

No problem with NEWP. This will be my third year using them (seven ton have passed through my Quad 1200).

Oh, I realize you don't make much on a ton, I didn't mean that you had to give them away. If the product is indeed of a quality that people are willing to pay more for it, good for you in offering an alternative product. I suspect however, the frugal nature of CNY residence drives them towards lower prices.

Where's your shop?

 

[minnow]

We're selling at $289 per ton right now. We offered our regular customers a chance to buy in May/June for $269 per ton. Very few took advantage and are calling me now. I guess laying out $1100 5 months before you have to to save $80 didnt seem worth it.

Thats why my showroom has Pellet stoves +Gas, Wood and Coal. Be ready to sell what folks need, regardless.

Lowes was $210 a ton after with the rebate for buying 5 ton. Anything over $235 is too much. Period.

 

[Fsappo]

Well, they said period, so that answers that, lets close the thread and only buy pellets where they are less then $235 a ton.

Back to the real world, we're located In West Monroe, about 15 miles north of Syracuse.

 

[Fsappo]

I can buy a pellet stove at Lowes for $1599, so no one should pay more than $2000 for a pellet stove....period?

 

[Fsappo]

I can buy a pellet stove at Lowes for $1599, so no one should pay more than $2000 for a pellet stove....period?

You can buy a new Chevy for $25,000, does that mean nobody should pay more than $30K for a car or over $100,000 for a house...You can get a great Timex watch for $100, so anything over $120 is off limits?......yeah yeah I know...it's only compressed sawdust..........

How easy it is to arm chair quarterback. Maybe we should turn all this over to the government, so they can provide us all with "free" pellets, then just watch how expensive it would be..!!

Was using a bit of sarcasm about Minnows Logic, see the post above mine. Please dont give the government any more ideas! I'm already scared about what providing "free health care" may cost my business

 

[cac4]

Yes what we really need here is a public option for pellets!! :lol:

perhaps the poster is under the impression that all retailers pay the same price for their pellets, (no "bulk discount"), and therefore, if they can make money @ 220/ton, then everyone else is "gouging".

Or perhaps he doesn't know that big-boxes will routinely sell at a loss, in order to get a gain somewhere else. everyone knows that NObody ever goes into a hardware store, and comes out with only the item(s) they intended. "just get 'em in the store...whatever it takes"...they'll make it up in other areas.
OR, that there are tax implications for having too much inventory at the end of the year.

on and on and on....

small, local shops can't operate like this.

but hey, I took the bait, myself, and ordered on the big-box deal. and what showed up at my house was a truckload of ill-reputed pellets...not what they were offering in the store, at all.

 

[TboneMan]

Well, they said period, so that answers that, lets close the thread and only buy pellets where they are less then $235 a ton.

Back to the real world, we're located In West Monroe, about 15 miles north of Syracuse.

Gotcha... I'm between Phoenix and Central Square. I'll have to check your shop out sometime when I out that way.

 

[MainePellethead]

Your absolutely right.... especially if this breaks out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc

As for oil base products.... enjoy it while you can. We're still one miss placed bomb, assassination, pipeline disruption, "cap and trade" vote, or US recovery that doesn't not involve the US actually manufacturing anything, away from the outrageous crude prices seen in '07-'08.

 

[minnow]

So some of you are saying that the sky is the limit on what you'd pay - maybe because if you don't burn pellets then all you've got is a $3,000 metal box sitting unused in your living room ? Franks comments are a little slanted don't you think ? It's not like he's a dealer or anything. You see sarcasm can work both ways. Hey the bottom line is that anyone can pay anything they want for pellets, I could care less. For me and only me, this year pellets were too much ($75/ton more than last year). Next year, we'll see. I'm hoping the manufacturers take a little beating this year and maybe they'll be a little more reasonable in their pricing.

 

[MainePellethead]

Nope....sky isnt the limit on me with pellets. I said in a few other posts.... 300 would be my absolute max. and maybe just under that actually. But they started coming back down with sales etc.... if pellets get to 300 then its oil time for me

So some of you are saying that the sky is the limit on what you'd pay - maybe because if you don't burn pellets then all you've got is a $3,000 metal box sitting unused in your living room ? Franks comments are a little slanted don't you think ? It's not like he's a dealer or anything. You see sarcasm can work both ways. Hey the bottom line is that anyone can pay anything they want for pellets, I could care less. For me and only me, this year pellets were too much ($75/ton more than last year). Next year, we'll see. I'm hoping the manufacturers take a little beating this year and maybe they'll be a little more reasonable in their pricing.

 

[jkane]

We are a little distributor out of Derry NH and are in the process of getting a facility in Vermont. Our overhead is low, and as a new company we want the price as low as possible for the end user. We carry a few different pellets and the manufacturers we've talked to are sure that the demand is there and coming soon. We'll see what happens but I am sure they will have supply they need to move come December. A lot of these guys have expanded, and have equipment to pay for. With oil this cheap they'll have to drop the price just for cash flow.