Pellet stove for small cabin

[Cabingirl]

Hi all!
I've been researching pellet stoves for the small cabin I'm preparing to have built (in Oregon) and this forum kept coming up in the searches. What a wealth of information! So, I thought I'd register!

I'm going off-grid and will be living in my cabin on a forested mountain (smallish one, lol) full-time and year-round. The winters don't get bitterly cold. The coldest the daytime temps get would be in the high 20s at the peak of winter and the coldest night time temps would be in the teens, generally. Very, very occasionally, a night might go down to the single digits. Rarely below 0.

My cabin will be about 400 square feet. There will be a lofted bedroom. (Real bedroom, not just a sleeping loft.) Most will be open except for the bathroom and a small utility room.

When I say "off-grid," I mean that I will have a 1.8 KwH solar power system supplying my electrical needs, a cistern, and on-site septic. I'm keeping plumbing to a minimum while still having indoor facilities and conveniences. Propane range, LED lighting, etc.

I think that a pellet stove would fit into this situation better than a wood stove because of the ability to fill the hopper and have it run for longer unattended; the ability to buy tons of pellets and have that fuel source stored easily and on-hand; the thermostat capabilities; and the cleaner nature of the burn and the process.

But I really need some guidance on my choices and info on particulars. First, the particulars: I see the stove also as a backup to the gas stove for heating water and (in a rare pinch) cooking. Does the top get hot enough to boil a pot of water within, say, 10 minutes? And would it be a problem to heat water on it daily for doing dishes?

Secondly, the floor of the cabin will be OSB plywood. Does one need a purchased hearth pad under the pellet stove or will installed porcelain tile only over the plywood be fine and not a fire hazard?

Now to stove choices! I've narrowed it down to the Enviro Mini and the Heatilator PS-35 (MAYBE 50 for the hopper size). Are there any others I'm missing in the $1,800-or-less good, reliable stove category for my use?

I'm starting to lean quite a bit toward the Heatilator because it has a Medium setting and a few more automated functions/bells and whistles that I think I'd appreciate. Is that foolish?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Chrisnow86]

You could look into the the wiseway pellet stove it uses no power to run

 

[johneh]

Both stoves will work for you as long as the building is sealed
and insulated . If not go for a larger output stove.
Will you also have a generator to top up your batteries ? If you
run out of power you have no heat .
If you think you are going to cook or heat water on a pellet stove
Think again they are space heaters not cook stoves Top does not get hot enough
Good idea to put in floor protection a sheet of cement board would work
and is cheep

 

[Cabingirl]

You could look into the the wiseway pellet stove it uses no power to run

I did, actually! It's manufactured just down the highway from my land! I decided against it for a number of reasons. I don't mind spending some of my solar power to operate stove blowers. In the winter, I have generator backup to charge the batteries, if need be, during a string of cloudy days so it isn't an issue.

 

[Cabingirl]

Both stoves will work for you as long as the building is sealed
and insulated . If not go for a larger output stove.
Will you also have a generator to top up your batteries ? If you
run out of power you have no heat .
If you think you are going to cook or heat water on a pellet stove
Think again they are space heaters not cook stoves Top does not get hot enough
Good idea to put in floor protection a sheet of cement board would work
and is cheep

Thank you! Yeah, I should have been more specific. My cabin may be small but it's being built to code and will actually exceed energy efficiency. (There are grants/rebates available in the state for doing that.)

It will be wired as usual with the solar system and generator wired to the electric panel and a transfer switch by which the generator can charge my lithium battery bank and provide power. I've also sized the system adequately to allow for days of NO solar input but stored power ample to provide for the electrical needs without recharging the batteries. So, it should be fine. HOWEVER, I see that there's a battery backup available for stoves themselves. Do you think this is a good thing to do, just in case of sheer emergency?

Thanks for recommending cement board. That's exactly what I was wondering!

So, no heating water, eh? OK, good to know. Doubtful I'd need that capability as I'm having a propane range with ample propane but I like to plan backups.

 

[Jack Morrissey]

Hi all!
I've been researching pellet stoves for the small cabin I'm preparing to have built (in Oregon) and this forum kept coming up in the searches. What a wealth of information! So, I thought I'd register!

I'm going off-grid and will be living in my cabin on a forested mountain (smallish one, lol) full-time and year-round. The winters don't get bitterly cold. The coldest the daytime temps get would be in the high 20s at the peak of winter and the coldest night time temps would be in the teens, generally. Very, very occasionally, a night might go down to the single digits. Rarely below 0.

My cabin will be about 400 square feet. There will be a lofted bedroom. (Real bedroom, not just a sleeping loft.) Most will be open except for the bathroom and a small utility room.

When I say "off-grid," I mean that I will have a 1.8 KwH solar power system supplying my electrical needs, a cistern, and on-site septic. I'm keeping plumbing to a minimum while still having indoor facilities and conveniences. Propane range, LED lighting, etc.

I think that a pellet stove would fit into this situation better than a wood stove because of the ability to fill the hopper and have it run for longer unattended; the ability to buy tons of pellets and have that fuel source stored easily and on-hand; the thermostat capabilities; and the cleaner nature of the burn and the process.

But I really need some guidance on my choices and info on particulars. First, the particulars: I see the stove also as a backup to the gas stove for heating water and (in a rare pinch) cooking. Does the top get hot enough to boil a pot of water within, say, 10 minutes? And would it be a problem to heat water on it daily for doing dishes?

Secondly, the floor of the cabin will be OSB plywood. Does one need a purchased hearth pad under the pellet stove or will installed porcelain tile only over the plywood be fine and not a fire hazard?

Now to stove choices! I've narrowed it down to the Enviro Mini and the Heatilator PS-35 (MAYBE 50 for the hopper size). Are there any others I'm missing in the $1,800-or-less good, reliable stove category for my use?

I'm starting to lean quite a bit toward the Heatilator because it has a Medium setting and a few more automated functions/bells and whistles that I think I'd appreciate. Is that foolish?

Thanks for your help!

1st, welcome to the forum. I don't know if you would get enough power to run a pellet stove off strictly solar, I've been to Oregon a few times and I know you get alot of cloudy days.

 

[Bioburner]

I would see if you could find a used p38 or p43 as they are hot bodied stoves that radiate some heat when in low (up to 8 k btus)and will only need to run the exhaust fan and one can place a water tank on the side for some warm water. Would have to have it made but not a hard project.
400 sq ft is not hard to heat if well insulated at all. My well insulated home uses surprisingly little here in MN

 

[Cabingirl]

1st, welcome to the forum. I don't know if you would get enough power to run a pellet stove off strictly solar, I've been to Oregon a few times and I know you get alot of cloudy days.

Thank you for the welcome! Yes, some of Oregon is quite cloudy/rainy but my property is in the South-Central part of the state, about 50 miles from the California border. The area gets abundant sunshine and solar is extremely popular and viable there.

 

[Cabingirl]

I would see if you could find a used p38 or p43 as they are hot bodied stoves that radiate some heat when in low (up to 8 k btus)and will only need to run the exhaust fan and one can place a water tank on the side for some warm water. Would have to have it made but not a hard project.
400 sq ft is not hard to heat if well insulated at all. My well insulated home uses surprisingly little here in MN

Cool! What brand is the P38/43? Heatilator? There are 2 Heatilator dealers in the city closest to me. Maybe they'd be of some help.

 

[Cabingirl]

RE: Solar. I don't want to get too involved in that since this isn't a solar forum, lol, but for discussion purposes, I'm putting in IK of panels, a 2,500-watt pure sine inverter, and 3K battery storage via lithium. My daily electric load without the stove will be approx. 900 watts. I have a portable washing machine that I'll run off the generator during the winter because the spin cycle does spike really large surge watts a few times. In the summer, when the panels are producing like mad, it won't be an issue.

Do the stove blowers kill with surge watts? That would be the only problem I could foresee and I haven't read anything in the stoves' specs that indicate anything about that.

 

[FirepotPete]

Hi Cabingirl and welcome.

I see in your first post that you don't think going with a wood stove is what you want. But, have you looked into incorporating a rocket/hearth type stove for cooking while using the warmth of the hearth to offset the pellet stove? Also water pipes can be run through the hearth to help with hot water needs. They use very little wood, would be great in a real emergency where all the electrical may not be available for hours or days and being a small cabin might be part of the answers you are looking for.

 

[Cabingirl]

Hi Cabingirl and welcome.

I see in your first post that you don't think going with a wood stove is what you want. But, have you looked into incorporating a rocket/hearth type stove for cooking while using the warmth of the hearth to offset the pellet stove? Also water pipes can be run through the hearth to help with hot water needs. They use very little wood, would be great in a real emergency where all the electrical may not be available for hours or days and being a small cabin might be part of the answers you are looking for.

I'm likely going with a rocket stove outdoors for hot water capabilities and such AFTER the cabin has been inspected and we're all legal. Oregon building and environmental codes are quite stringent.

There are also some really nifty little wood furnaces that I could put out near my carport and put in a protected shelter of sorts and connect to ductwork in my cabin. BUT, they're not EPA-approved so I can't use them to heat the cabin. (Read, I can't have one as a primary heat source during the inspection process.) The big'uns that are or meet Oregon code are WAY too big and expensive for my use.

However, once everything is all legal, I will look at a little wood-burning furnace or rocket stove outdoors, for backup and hot water. It wouldn't serve to have a supplemental wood-burning stove providing hot water INSIDE because I don't want to heat up the cabin in the summer. Especially since I can use the sun to heat water then.

 

[TonyVideo]

400sqft is small. I think a pellet stove will run you out on the lowest setting. Even using a thermostat once it reaches temp and shuts off the residual heat will still raise the Temps even further until cool down. Why not use a small vented propane heater?

 

[Cabingirl]

Let me ask another question, since electricity seems to be a common question from those who so kindly responded! Does one HAVE to use blower(s)? The Enviro Mini was recommended to me by a cabin friend because he said the blower can be shut off. I've seen fans that use no energy except the stove's heat to run and distribute heat. Do those really work? (There are battery-operated fans, too.)

The bottom line is that any source of heat is going to need electricity for a fan or blower of some sort to circulate heat. A propane heater using priezo ignition and a battery-operated fan wouldn't, but I'm not keen on using those types of heaters for a constant winter heat source. So, either I have to increase my solar power/gen backup if the consensus is it wouldn't be adequate or I need to adjust the stove usage in some manner.

 

[Cabingirl]

400sqft is small. I think a pellet stove will run you out on the lowest setting. Even using a thermostat once it reaches temp and shuts off the residual heat will still raise the Temps even further until cool down. Why not use a small vented propane heater?

Mostly because I don't want to add a second propane appliance and have to store gas, as I'd have to do with 2 appliances living on a mountain in the winter. The range uses a barbecue tank and it lasts for a couple of months. That's easy. But a second -- and one for heat -- would require more gas storage if I couldn't get deliveries during bad weather or I couldn't get off the mountain to at least refill a few barbecue tanks if it was possible to hook up a propane heater to those. In case of forest fire, I don't want a lot of gas stored onsite. A barbecue tank can be disconnected and dealt with. Not so easy with a large tank.

 

[Cabingirl]

TonyVideo, That is why I think a pellet stove trumps a wood stove, though. I could go from sweltering to freezing with a wood stove too easily. There would definitely be a learning curve with even a small pellet stove but at least there's a thermostat. The cabin's footprint is 400 sq. ft. but there is a second floor and it's more than half-open. (Picture a 160 sq. ft. loft on one side of the cabin and the rest open with a cathedral ceiling.) I may need a solar ceiling fan up there to push down some of the heat.

 

[rich2500]

running a pellet stove off a thermostat to cycle off and on is going to use a lot of power for each restart cycle( some ignitors draw 400 watts ) so you want to be looking for a stove that when the call for temp is reached the stove will then idle to the lowest setting.

 

[bogieb]

Let me ask another question, since electricity seems to be a common question from those who so kindly responded! Does one HAVE to use blower(s)? The Enviro Mini was recommended to me by a cabin friend because he said the blower can be shut off. I've seen fans that use no energy except the stove's heat to run and distribute heat. Do those really work? (There are battery-operated fans, too.)

The bottom line is that any source of heat is going to need electricity for a fan or blower of some sort to circulate heat. A propane heater using priezo ignition and a battery-operated fan wouldn't, but I'm not keen on using those types of heaters for a constant winter heat source. So, either I have to increase my solar power/gen backup if the consensus is it wouldn't be adequate or I need to adjust the stove usage in some manner.

Sounds like quite the adventure!

You asked earlier what a P38/P43 was and I didn't see where anyone had answered (I may have missed it) - it is a Harman. Although expensive to buy new, you might be able to find a newish used one at a decent price (don't let me scare you away from a Harman - I just have no idea what your budget is). I keep a pan of water on top of my P43 and it gets pretty warm - not boiling, but warm enough that you would need to add some cold water for a sponge bath. You can turn off the room blower, or at least have that effect, by the setting you used. It will always have the exhaust blower going when the stove is warm.

The P43 heats my 950 sq/ft main floor nicely. It also radiates heat for quite a while even when the stove is off.

The fans that use no electricity, that I have experience with, work pretty well on a wood stove. I don't know how they would work on a pellet stove though.

Good luck!

 

[Cabingirl]

This really IS an adventure, guys -- an adventure in almost never-ending problem-solving, lol. Once all of the pieces are put right and fit together, living off-grid will be amazing. Until then, a lot of brain power and creativity is needed. Thanks for thinking with me and offering input and suggestions. It is really appreciated!

One of the biggest frustrations I've encountered is that companies aren't clear on true electrical operating requirements. I've mostly seen "start up" and "run" electrical use provided in amps. That's not terribly meaningful. I need watts or watt hours. That's why I could be woefully underestimating just how much electricity the stoves will use. Then there are surge watts and continuous watts, sigh.

Earlier in the thread, I dismissed the Wiseway. I'd been told by a few people that there were user problems with it early on and I can't find anything online regarding user experiences, any tweaks, or whether initial problems had been worked out. While I find the stove itself rather awful in appearance, lol, if I know that it actually PERFORMS really well, then I'd be happy to consider it, especially since it's manufactured in my neck of the woods and doesn't use a watt of electricity. (Another drawback is that, according to the website, it requires several feet of vertical stovepipe and chimney above the roofline, just like a wood stove, plus professional installation. Bummer.)

 

[Bioburner]

Sorry I forgot to state the manufacture of the p series. Bedtime in the valley.

A small propane stove like one I use for backup and installed for my Mother last fall may be considered as is needs no electricity although won't get the optimum efficiency out of it.
Propane storage does not need to be above ground as they are now installing underground tanks negating fears of fire and the sight of the above ground tank. We still have gas providers that exchange 100lb tanks(20 gallon) for home owners in our state.

No one has mentioned a fuel oil stove either. There was a nice looking stove that someone posted a picture of and it needed no electricity. Very similar to a Jungers parlor stove. There is also a fireplace version fuel oil stove popular with dear hunting camps.

 

[bogieb]

Spupilup has a Wiseway. You might try contacting him for his experience. Here is a short thread he started.

 

[PinetreePellets]

Welcome Cabingirl. I have 2 quadrafire AE stoves, they offer battery backup, self cleaning burner pots, low maintenance. Mine are in the 60k BTU range. As far as electricity requirements I can hook my watt meter to see what draw during ignition and when the blower kicks on high, just to give you an idea of my particular stove.

Quadrafire and Harmon are owned by the same company so stoves are probably comparable http://www.hearthnhome.com/Brands

 

[rich2500]

Here is the oil stove bogie referenced
https://www.kumastoves.com/Content/Page/oil-stove

 

[bogieb]

Here is the oil stove bogie referenced
https://www.kumastoves.com/Content/Page/oil-stove

Bioburner

 

[rich2500]

Whoops