Pennsylvania (sw) Newbie with small house

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Catia

Member
Mar 28, 2015
22
PA (southwestern)
Hi all,
I'm new to posting but have been lurking for more than a year, and will be installing a free standing wood stove next year (at least that is the goal). My house is small, about 600 sq ft.

Since the new EPA guidelines are confusing, I'm reading up on those issues as well, from the actual source, since there is a lot of incorrect info online. I've also come to see the EPA & related sites are pretty vague.

Of course, I plan on getting an efficient/clean burning stove, but now, my dream of being more self sufficient is being tainted a bit by what is occurring in my area, meaning Pennsylvania.

Around my area in southwestern PA, there is a BIG move, almost like a witch hunt, that is focusing on people with wood stoves, it's just popped up recently, but I find it disturbing on a level I've never quite experienced. By 'disturbed' I mean--elevated to a level of "legitimate paranoia".

There are sites for PA reporting wood smoke--ANY wood smoke--even properly functioning chimneys that have small amounts of smoke on firing up their wood stove.
Then there are maps that show exactly where the smoke seen has been reported. The one site is I see Smoke PA, a clean air council site. It covers the entire state of PA.
Apparently there are aps you can use from your phone to report as well.

Now I understand the new EPA push & wanting clean air, I have no problem with this, but I do have a problem with people getting reported to the PA DEP who are not doing anything wrong & having the area mapped to your residence. It seems like this is a 'guilty until proven innocent' invasion of privacy.

It seems they are really creating a neighbor against neighbor type of environment & in some areas, neighbors are not close-I have a few co-workers, who live in more rural areas, that have had authorities show up, like the fire dept, because the DEP reports to the local authority, & the local authority decides who to send out to the property.


This seems a waste of valuable time & $$, someone can be dying from a structure fire while local fire depts. are sent because some neighbor, or a person driving by reported you having smoke.

Anyone can report on anyone without needing a VALID reason.
This creates a hardship on small towns with small budgets.

There are whole groups that are so against wood burning of any kind, who take no time to understand that if you have electric heat instead, you're aiding in the destruction of entire mountaintops, & that natural gas causes much destruction as well. I guess these people on the hunt live in areas disconnected from where their energy is actually coming from. They believe electric & gas is the cleanest of all, which might be the case at the end point where it is used, but do not consider the damage to the environment at the SOURCE.

I'm a bit stressed out, I do not even have my wood stove yet.

I am still moving forward with my plans, but trying to incorporate as much planning ahead as possible, because the regulations regarding emissions are just going to get tighter, so I want to be 'ahead' of the game as much as possible, since I don't want to invest in something that I might be forced to remove in a few years.

My new house has an oil furnace, I have no natural gas service. It also had coal stoves, but they have been removed.
 
I am a member of the pa guild of sweeps and am a pa wood burner my sister lives in southwest pa and is a wood burner and other than one lawyer suing his neighbor because of smoke i have heard nothing about this other than some local ordinances against outdoor wood burners which at least around here make massive clouds of smoke many times year round. I think you are getting worried about absolutely nothing.
 
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I am from southeast Pa. and have not heard of this. Maybe I am missing something but how can the EPA come down on you if your using an EPA certified wood stove?
 
I just checked out their site and they have no laws backing them it is just a goup trying to do something with from what i can see no political backing at all. And i will be calling their Harrisburg office on Monday to find out what they are all about but i really see nothing to worry about at all.
 
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Anyone can report on anyone without needing a VALID reason.
This creates a hardship on small towns with small budgets.
Yes anyone can report anyone but for the most part there is no law or code that is even there to be broken so there is nothing to respond to. The only laws or codes they list concern placement and setbacks for owb and then there are some local ordinances but those localities set them themselves so they cannot complain and if you live in one of those areas you need to take it up with your local government.
 
Maybe I am missing something but how can the EPA come down on you if your using an EPA certified wood stove?

Yep you missed it all. This is a private organization that has nothing whatsoever to do with the EPA.
 
I don't want to invest in something that I might be forced to remove in a few years.
not gonna happen in pa. At least not any time in the near future
 
It's not the EPA that is coming down on you.
It is the way that the 'watch dog' types of groups are allowed to report ANY smoke.

Then the DEP takes note, & someone locally must be assigned check it out & report back.

Take a look at the I see smoke PA site--that site was shown to me by a coworker who had a visit from a local fire dept regarding his 'smoke' & the process was explained to him. He was told there was no issue, but that the report had to be followed up on.

He has a new EPA compliant wood burner & there is only a small amount of 'smoke' on initial lighting.

I thought at 1st it was an exaggeration, but you can zoom in & it shows the name of the street & where on the street.

Honestly, I do not know much about it, just what I have typed here. I am still trying to learn about it.
My thought was that some people on this site from PA would know more about it.

trying to be clear here: that site apparently reports to the PA DEP.
 
No different than if anybody walking down the street wanted to make a report to whatever state air quality agency anywhere in the country. Or report that you haven't mowed your lawn or a hundred other things.
 
Yes anyone can report anyone but for the most part there is no law or code that is even there to be broken so there is nothing to respond to. The only laws or codes they list concern placement and setbacks for owb and then there are some local ordinances but those localities set them themselves so they cannot complain and if you live in one of those areas you need to take it up with your local government.

bholler--I hope you are correct. The whole thing seems crazy to me, crazy enough to get me from lurking to posting so that I can figure out what I can do to avoid that type of attention.
 
Dieselhead--sounds like a good plan.

It's really hard to separate fact from fiction with all of the EPA related crap online--so much bad info.

Before this year, I wasn't concerned at all about installing a wood stove.
Now I'm doing nothing but running in circles trying to figure out what I can & cannot do.
I didn't even know the EPA could infringe on my life in such a way.

So now I printed out the EPA list of EPA certed wood heaters--& I am trying to whittle my choices from that.
My original stove I planned on installing is not on that list, but is certed across the pond as DEFRA approved for smoke control areas...
The process gets a bit overwhelming.
Many stoves on the EPA certed list are either not in production, or are erroneously listed as one type of stove when in fact they are another--for example-it might be listed as wood non catalytic when it is a pellet....
Like everything else, you gotta do your homework, & I am, but I'm finding it overwhelming.
 
In pa unless you have local regs you can install any stove you want as long as the install meets code
 
This is news to me. No problems around here.
 
Stop wasting time on worrying about this stuff and go start cutting, splitting, and stacking lots of wood! Once you start doing that you will stop worrying about those fools. Besides, your going to need it for your EPA stove. If you plan on buying wood then get it bought and stacked.

Seriously, you are over thinking it.

What stoves are you interested in?
 
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In pa unless you have local regs you can install any stove you want as long as the install meets code

This may be exactly where I need to better educate myself, & get posting so I can get info from others.

Where I am confused is with certs & UL listing & etc & which authority says what is allowed.

Also, homeowners insurance does dictate to some extent what type of stove you can install, if you can install one at all, & if you can DIY or not, even if your local building inspector allows you to DIY.
Unless you want to keep shopping for HOI, this adds to the burden.

My house is small, I just needed a small wood burner for supplemental heat.
I thought I had it all figured out & a plan I could budget for.
Was gonna DIY everything, with proper permits etc, so that I could save on labor cost & use better products.

I have not yet had the chimney inspected, but I am assuming that I will need to reline my existing masonry chimney, as it is original to 1940's.
It is in the center of the house. I wanted to use stainless steel & also insulate with that pour down aggregate type of stuff instead of the pull over thin liner. My thought was that this would be even safer.
Original stove I wanted to install was the Salamander Hobbit.

Now I am looking at Morso 1410 squirrel --due in part to the EPA stuff--but also because Squirrel uses 6" flue, whereas the Hobbit uses 4".
I was able to source 4" stainless, but if I ever wanted a bigger wood stove later down the line, it would require a complete re-line...Morso also seems to be an older company with a really good reputation & 10 yr warranty.

My area has a lot of "scam" type chimney inspection stuff going on, so am trying to find a mom & pop operation & not some fly by night for the inspection & cleaning.
 
At 600 square feet you want a smaller stove, and I would say suggest a catalytic stove so you can get clean low burns on warmer days. You may only need low burns on cold days, depending on your insulation and building. Don't know what your budget is. I have a Woodstock stove, and am very happy with the stove and the company. You could look at their smaller stoves. They are soapstone stoves, and at the upper end in expense. Others with other stove experience will chime in with their recommendations, I'm sure.
 
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bholler--I hope you are correct. The whole thing seems crazy to me, crazy enough to get me from lurking to posting so that I can figure out what I can do to avoid that type of attention.
You should have chimed in earlier, now you can relax, a bit.......
 
Actually there are 2 on the "list" right now that keep standing out.

Morso 1410 Squirrel & Heritage Tribute 8040 (soapstone).

I LOVE the look of the Heritage Tribute & the fact that it has the soapstone, but it's a little more expensive. I'd want the flat black matte, don't want too fancy or delicate. It also takes a bit longer to heat up, but on the plus, it also radiates heat longer.
Also uses 16" wood

No matter what, I like to be warm, so getting warm fast is good, as is being warm longer LOL.

I love that the Morso Squirrel has a small footprint, can be vented top or rear, has the ashpan & that I can use the top to cook & it puts out heat faster. Uses 12" wood, which while it may take more work, it is easier for me to handle carrying it.

I'm no lumberjack. I will be taking the easy route to cutting wood, using mostly electric tools...I have an electric chainsaw, and a chop saw/miter saw for smaller pieces.

I do already have a small stack of locust, which will only get larger when I have the 2 locust trees cut down. I think I will be burning mostly locust & maple.

I will however also learn how to do it manually & have that stuff on hand also, but I'm fairly petite, so will need to find tools I am capable of using.
 
I wouldn't worry about it being a bit more expensive because I look at a stove as an investment. Plus if you love it and get the other one you will always look at it and say to yourself you should have just gotten the one you loved.

Buy once, cry once.

Have you thought about catalytic stoves? Woodstock is coming out with a smaller one this year.
 
The Fiskars X25. Nice light, smaller axe.

If you have the money for it, the Stihl battery operated chainsaw has a separate harness for the battery, so it is very light, and has a decent size bar and a battery that lasts a long time and charges quickly. But EXPENSIVE with the entire set up. Still less expensive than buying wood or paying for labor to process it.

16 inch wood is pretty easy to handle, and a lot less work over time than having to cut everything to 12 inches. Don't know how big the door is on a Morso...be nice to have one big enough to take some of the funny sized pieces that are hard to split or cut.
 
Welcome, you've come to the best place to get excellent info, encouragement and support. I'm always learning and feel others can offer better info, but here's my two cents:

1. Inspect your chimney and make sure you can get it lined
2. Consider how well, or not, your house is insulated and spend time doing all you can to get that up to snuff
3. Figure out your local code/inspector requirements (can you diy or not?)
4. Talk with your home owners insurance and see what they want
5. If it seems like a wood stove is still a go, GET YOUR WOOD cut/split/stacked (css) yesterday!
6. Research stoves. This is a great site to do some of that research and get good input
7. Understand and make sure you can meet clearances, etc. for the stoves you might consider
8. The rest is all decisions, money and work
9. ***remember #5*** wood that is not well seasoned will make everything else an excruciating and frustrating waste of time
 
Will you be buying most of you other wood then (besides the 2 locusts tree)?

EPA stoves NEED seasoned wood,,,get it stacked in the sun ASAP.

Those locust pieces will NOT be ready to burn this coming winter....FYI.
 
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