permits and insurance

[iron]

i'm planning to do a full fireplace replacement (demo down to the studs, have a certified installer put in the new heat n glo northstar).

i'm curious about permits. i know you're supposed to get one per my local codes ((broken link removed to http://your.kingcounty.gov/ddes/forms/b-appaff-resmech.pdf) -- $205), but i question if it's worth it.

i read these two threads:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/replacing-wood-stove-do-i-need-a-permit.63246/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/what-home-repair-warrants-a-permit.69/
... and it seems like it's hit or miss on the quality of an inspector you'll get.

i'm generally handy (a structural engineer, so detail-oriented), but fireplaces are a bit new to me. i kind of want a second set of eyes on this to make sure the installer does it right. i am also concerned with regards to insurance in the rare event an improper install resulted in a house fire.

my conflict comes with other house projects i'm working on (including some structural mods that i engineered). i don't like the idea of a mechanical inspector coming out to see the fireplace and then see that i'm working on some walls without a building permit. however, i can delay this project 'til after the fireplace (inconvenient, but doable). i am just curious if the local mechanical inspector will be worth a darn or provide a benefit in some other form.

thoughts?

 

[begreen]

Legally it's required though I note that some local stove companies do not pull the permit, they leave it up to the homeowner. Did you ask your insurance company what they require?

 

[iron]

nope. haven't talked with my insurance company. it would seem that all insurance companies standard answers would be "yes, please get a permit"

 

[begreen]

If there is a claim they may put some backing behind that request.

 

[BrotherBart]

Fact of life is that permits are both for code compliance and also to value your property. But in the grand scheme of things $205 is chump change in the price of replacing a fireplace and avoiding county and insurance problems later.

And I have used inspectors to keep contractors and builders honest more than once.

 

[electrathon]

nope. haven't talked with my insurance company. it would seem that all insurance companies standard answers would be "yes, please get a permit"

Yes, that is the standard answer. It is the standard answer for replacing a roof, remodeling the kitchen, replacing the water heater etc. Many of the people that I know contracting do not pull permits as a rule, they will pull them if the homeowners want them, but otherwise not. Most of the inspectors will know far less than the installers do. There are exceptions to this.

I am not directly aware of any insurance company pulling records to see if a permit was pulled on an installation. I am aware of an inspection where a friend installed a pre-emission stove in a non-compliant manor and they signed off on it. I was trying to tell him why it was not correct, hard to convince him when the inspector signed off on it.

 

[begreen]

I have seen both sides of the coin, crappy installers caught by good inspectors and crappy inspectors that barely look at a job. Our stove was just glanced at by the inspector, but the stove was just one of many items to inspect after we got the new foundation done. That inspector focused on structural and major mechanical changes.

 

[jeffesonm]

I do all my own work at my own house... wood stove, new boiler, sub panel in garage, etc. I pull permits because god forbid anything happen, even if it was unrelated to my work, I would not want to risk my insurance company denying my claim. And I figure I'm saving thousands in labor, may as well put some of that towards the right paperwork.

 

[BamaRama]

And I figure I'm saving thousands in labor, may as well put some of that towards the right paperwork.

I conveyed the same idea to my wife yesterday when she ask me if a permit is really necessary.

 

[Typ0]

The home inspector in my neighborhood is not happy when you don't hire his family to do the work. Had problems with him before on another job with him standing at my house yelling at the contractor who had the proper paperwork and followed the right processes.

I did not get a permit when I installed my stove...however there was a stove here before that had been taken out which does make a difference. I did remove a wall though which is structural and did some electrical work which is an ongoing process.

My insurance company said they wanted the job looked at by a "professional installer" not a code enforcement official.

Do your homework and I believe the answers to your questions lie in how your municipality operates and your specific circumstances. Don't destroy your homeowners though that is too much on the line for you. Good luck!