What can I do to renovate my old heatilator?

[ncstar126]

I am looking to renovate an old heatilator installation with something functional. Initially I was going to put an insert inside of it. A friend of mine was a chimney sweep apprentice some years ago and he said it looked good to go and would only need a bit of the damper cut out. I saw some warnings online about zero clearances and on further research decided to ask a pro to come out for an install. He said that an insert could not be done considering the wood frame member that you can spot in the sideview picture below. He also said he would not be comfortable running a grinder or plasma cutter within the existing firebox for fear of a spark hitting that wood member which may be decayed. His recommendation was a total demo.

I am hoping there is some way to salvage what we have that is yet unknown. A full teardown and rebuild would be a huge project that we can't take on right now. There's several threads on here about adding an insert without caution, for example:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...fireplace-upgrade-built-in-heatilator.183749/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/trying-to-replace-old-metal-lined-fireplace.183440/page-3

Others cast doubt: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/is-it-possible-to-put-an-insert-into-a-zero-clearance.101025/

Can anyone see any "easy" way forward for me to put in either a wood stove or insert given the existing structure we have?

 

[begreen]

Putting in an insert that works on a short chimney and getting the top capped may be the best route.

 

[ncstar126]

Putting in an insert that works on a short chimney and getting the top capped may be the best route.

This is what I would love to do. I just don't know how I get past the "inserts shouldn't go in a ZC fireplace" warnings.

 

[ncstar126]

After reading a lot more threads.. it looks like possibly I have a Heatform instead of a Zero Clearance fireplace, which *could* allow an insert. There is a damper-control that says "Heatilator" but otherwise I see no other identifying information. I am not sure where to go from here. Any sweeps near Western PA looking for a job ?

 

[begreen]

Heatilator was probably the most prolific manufacturer of HeatForm style fireplaces, so much so that this became their nickname, much like Kleenex became the common name for facial tissues. An insert can be installed in there.

 

[ncstar126]

It looks like that wood stud may be holding up the mantel and possibly even involved in the vents. It’s not touching the firebox. Do you think the sweep was unnecessarily concerned about it?

Should I try to weld the old firebox or paste some refractory cement in any gaps and cracks between the steel and masonry?

 

[bholler]

This is what I would love to do. I just don't know how I get past the "inserts shouldn't go in a ZC fireplace" warnings.

You don't have a zero clearance fireplace you have a heat form

 

[begreen]

It looks like that wood stud may be holding up the mantel and possibly even involved in the vents. It’s not touching the firebox. Do you think the sweep was unnecessarily concerned about it?

Should I try to weld the old firebox or paste some refractory cement in any gaps and cracks between the steel and masonry?

The mantel clearance will likely be an issue. It may need to be moved up or replaced with a noncombustible mantel.
The old firebox can be cleaned up, but doesn't need repair.

 

[fbelec]

picture number 1 looks like it has a crack in the liner. or am i seeing things

 

[ncstar126]

I took that picture a while ago, I can’t quite remember. The sweep did mention seeing cracked tile from below though. I wasn’t able to make that distinction.

I was planning on a liner regardless, is that sufficient?

 

[begreen]

Plan on a full, insulated liner connected to the insert.

 

[Todd]

I had a fireplace similar to that in my previous house and I ended up ripping out the fire box then had a mason fill it in with brick leaving me enough room for a free standing stove.

 

[ncstar126]

This is super slick. Even on the insert, I’d like to do something like the princess 29(sticks out something like 11 inches), but I am not smart enough to figure out what type of floor protection would look nice to cover the ember clearances. I was thinking possibly a Sirroco25 or an Osburn instead. Maybe Regency.

 

[vbu]

Plan on a full, insulated liner connected to the insert.

On picture 6 it looks like a 2x4 directly behind the firebox, you can barely see it through the rusted out holes. Looks like it's on the side of the heatform. I think this is where his concern comes from.

Edit: I added said picture and circled the stud. It may not be of concern, but wanted to make sure you guys saw it.

 

[vbu]

I'm not a professional, and my heatilator box was not deteriorated to the point to where I could see through it, but I don't think that's supposed to be there.

 

[ncstar126]

This is a bit of masonry thats missing at the front of the firebox where it meets the steel. There was some mortar that has fallen out. I have no idea what the construction of these things entails to say what’s normal or not. My phone is too big to go in that cavity and scan around,

 

[begreen]

There is no substitute for eyes on the scene. There should be 8" of masonry between the metal and combustible studs. If the heatilator was improperly installed, then removing it and remedying the situation may be required.

Here are example drawings from Heatform.

 

[ncstar126]

Well, had another stove company come out and they gave me the same assessment. Very sketched out by the pictured stud / hearth facade. They were willing to put in a pellet stove but I don't think I want to do that.

 

[ncstar126]

Hopefully the conclusion to this saga. A third outfit looked at it today. They seemed a lot more knowledgeable and they do have a better reputation. The plan is to parge some areas with a type of refractory cement and add rockwool. They said it's good to go.

I'm looking at most likely the Matrix 2700 Insert.

 

[bholler]

Hopefully the conclusion to this saga. A third outfit looked at it today. They seemed a lot more knowledgeable and they do have a better reputation. The plan is to parge some areas with a type of refractory cement and add rockwool. They said it's good to go.

I'm looking at most likely the Matrix 2700 Insert.

If that is actually wood you see in that pic their solution scares me. If it is wood and I was asked to do the job I would insist on cutting out atleast the top of the firebox to see what is hiding behind there.

 

[ncstar126]

It is definitely wood.

 

[bholler]

It is definitely wood.

Then there is no way I would move forward with anything until you open it up and see what else is there.

 

[ncstar126]

I did knock out some of the loose stone in the picture there previously. It was too difficult to get a picture to share here, but, in person you can see a bit more inside and around. It doesn't give anywhere near a 100% picture of everything around the firebox though. That wood stud has a top plate which is approx 24" above the fireplace opening.

The crew who gave me the estimate claimed the refractory cement product they use turns the cavity into basically a zero clearance space. I am blanking on the name of the product.

 

[bholler]

I did knock out some of the loose stone in the picture there previously. It was too difficult to get a picture to share here, but, in person you can see a bit more inside and around. It doesn't give anywhere near a 100% picture of everything around the firebox though. That wood stud has a top plate which is approx 24" above the fireplace opening.

The crew who gave me the estimate claimed the refractory cement product they use turns the cavity into basically a zero clearance space. I am blanking on the name of the product.

Chambertech probably but it needs to be 2" thick and without knowing what other wood is there I don't see how they could just cover everything with 2" of chambertech. Like I said I wouldn't be comfortable with the safety of it without opening it up. Then rebuild as needed with masonry and chambertech