Piazzetta mode choices...

[chken]

…so, my first thread here. I have owned a Piazzetta Sabrina for 2 weeks now, my first pellet stove. I was wondering what other Piazzetta owners were doing for settings. The choices are manual temp and blower. There's Energy Saving mode. There's also a program mode for daily/weekly, etc. My shop recommended simplicity, which I assume means manual temp and blower. I have been using the Energy Saving mode with a +2/-2 setting. What have others been trying?

Also, anyone spring for the $55 humidifier insert? Does it work?

Any thoughts on the very short thermostat cord? Any good alternatives?

Any pellet recs? I am currently using either Crabbes or LGs. Both are softwood. They both have little dust and little ash, but the LGs seem to have just a little less black dusting on the glass. I empty the ash pan after 10 bags, either way. 5 mins for daily clean, wipe glass, scrape grate, fill hopper. 20 mins for weekly clean, remove backplate and vac. Is there a monthly routine, other than checking your venting?

Last comment, the Sabrina was only $300 more than the Monia, here in Maine, but getting the majolica panels was $900 more! Strange pricing. Anyway, so far so good.

 

[Drew65]

My Sabrina is going in this week so be ready for a few dumb questions. I was looking at that humidifier insert too. It looks small like you should be filling it 5 times a a day. What dealer did you use?

 

[EastMtn]

…so, my first thread here. I have owned a Piazzetta Sabrina for 2 weeks now, my first pellet stove. I was wondering what other Piazzetta owners were doing for settings. The choices are manual temp and blower. There's Energy Saving mode. There's also a program mode for daily/weekly, etc. My shop recommended simplicity, which I assume means manual temp and blower. I have been using the Energy Saving mode with a +2/-2 setting. What have others been trying?

Also, anyone spring for the $55 humidifier insert? Does it work?

Any thoughts on the very short thermostat cord? Any good alternatives?

Any pellet recs? I am currently using either Crabbes or LGs. Both are softwood. They both have little dust and little ash, but the LGs seem to have just a little less black dusting on the glass. I empty the ash pan after 10 bags, either way. 5 mins for daily clean, wipe glass, scrape grate, fill hopper. 20 mins for weekly clean, remove backplate and vac. Is there a monthly routine, other than checking your venting?

Last comment, the Sabrina was only $300 more than the Monia, here in Maine, but getting the majolica panels was $900 more! Strange pricing. Anyway, so far so good.

Congratulations on the Sabrina. I hope it heats beyond your expectations.
I have the Sveva and heat 2400sq feet open home with few interior walls. I'm using Energy Saving mode also and its worked the best for our needs. During shoulder season +2/-4. Now currently at +4/-2. The seems to work the best for us. I start at P4 and once the thermostat gets to the desired temps it reverts to a P1 setting and just maintains that temp all day and night. If the house warms up to quickly the +4 allows the stove to turn off for a longer period of time while the house holds in the heat. I turn off the stove once a day just to empty the burn pot.
The thermostat wire is short but I'm close enough to the wall that it loops around the plug cord elevated off the floo and gives a reading 1 degree cooler than actual room temp. I haven't looked for a longer wire because mine is accurate enough for my purposes.
As far as pellets stick with the higher quality softwoods. I tried a hardwood premium quality pellet but cleaning the glass was a pain and left a haze over the glass. With softwoods the lighter ash can be brushed of the glass with something soft like a paint brush and it keeps the glass in good condition for viewing the fire. I also tried a couple of lower quality cheap softwoods and mixed bags and the burn pot filled up faster and went through the pellets quicker to keep the heat up. For instance the brand I use now I run P1 at 2.9 feed rate whereas the poor quality softwood was at 3.6 and even had clinkers in the burn pot. I tried a few bags of Rocky Mountain Super Premium softwoods last week and was really impressed. Less than .5% ash 5.8%moisture, per twinsport testing, and very low fines at $5 per bag.
On the monthly routine, I mainly take care of the venting. Every other month I vacuum out the smoke chamber and pick the dog hair out of the room blower but thats only because of my obsession for peak running equipment. Piazzettas don't have or need scrapers on the heat exchangers due to their design and removing the cast iron back plate is so simple that I think it should be done weekly as the manual states. Like you said 20 min max to clean weekly.

 

[chken]

My Sabrina is going in this week so be ready for a few dumb questions. I was looking at that humidifier insert too. It looks small like you should be filling it 5 times a a day. What dealer did you use?

I picked mine up at Maine Coastal between Wiscasset and Bath. They don't have a humidifier insert so I have no idea what it looks like, but that was my concern that it would need constant filling given how small the hole appears.

 

[chken]

Congratulations on the Sabrina. I hope it heats beyond your expectations.
I have the Sveva and heat 2400sq feet open home with few interior walls. I'm using Energy Saving mode also and its worked the best for our needs. During shoulder season +2/-4. Now currently at +4/-2. The seems to work the best for us. I start at P4 and once the thermostat gets to the desired temps it reverts to a P1 setting and just maintains that temp all day and night. If the house warms up to quickly the +4 allows the stove to turn off for a longer period of time while the house holds in the heat. I turn off the stove once a day just to empty the burn pot.

So far so good. I've very pleased with its performance. I too have an open-style home that I built. Floor area that I'm trying to heat is not super large at 1400sqft, but the great room part has 26 ft ceilings so I make up for it in volume!

Thanks for your input, I'll tinker with the power settings, which is something I haven't really thought much about.

I've done the same with my temp wire, i.e. looping over the power cord, but I'm a tiny bit annoyed that I have to make a small mental adjustment whenever I compare the temp on the thermostat with a thermostat in the room.

I saw your Selkirk DT vent job, looks great. I was wondering if cleaning required extra effort.

As far as cleaning goes, I know I can do it faster, but since this baby is new, I try to clean it to a like-new condition!

 

[EastMtn]

I've done the same with my temp wire, i.e. looping over the power cord, but I'm a tiny bit annoyed that I have to make a small mental adjustment whenever I compare the temp on the thermostat with a thermostat in the room.

I saw your Selkirk DT vent job, looks great. I was wondering if cleaning required extra effort.

Thanks.

Regarding the temperature sensor have you thought of cutting the wire and splicing a new section in to lengthen it? The probe is at the extreme end of the wire and the connection plug would remain intact if you just add a middle section. I checked on Amazon and they sell longer temperature sensor probes but the connection is 2 exposed wires. If I remember correctly the probe must be plugged into the socket for the stove to operate or the the external thermostat port must be utilized.

26FT is a lot of air volume to heat. Hopefully you have a ceiling fan to try and push some of that air down. I've got 10ft ceilings and a pueblo flat roof so 16ft of total pipe to get above the snowline. With the Selkirk I've got a couple of options. It has a vacuum cleanout connection port on the bottom that I can hook a vacuum directly to without removing the cap. I prefer to go up on the roof with a soot eater and leafblower. That method gets every bit of soot and ash in nooks and crannier and even pulls pellets out of the hopper if I dont tape the pellet chute hole. I just have to unplug the air pressure switch above the control board before starting so as not to damage it. Look up leaf blower on this site and you'll get a wealth of information.

That brings me to another idea. Are you using the vacuum port on the back of the stove to get the right pressure readings for your stove? In the programming manual are recommended vacuum readings for each of the 5 power levels to achieve an efficient burn. A simple but accurate manometer is pretty cheap at around $50 and more than worth its weight. The programming manual also tells you step by step how to change the settings when using this tool.

I'm getting long winded. There are a few Piazzetta owners on this forum and growing slowly in numbers. Odds are, if you've had an idea or question someone else on this forum has thought about it also and posted.

 

[chken]

...That brings me to another idea. Are you using the vacuum port on the back of the stove to get the right pressure readings for your stove? In the programming manual are recommended vacuum readings for each of the 5 power levels to achieve an efficient burn. A simple but accurate manometer is pretty cheap at around $50 and more than worth its weight. The programming manual also tells you step by step how to change the settings when using this tool.

Lots of good food for thought there. I have 4 ceiling fans that can each push 10,000cfm. Unfortunately, I can only reverse 3 of the 4 for winter. That section of the house is very tight and gets good solar gain on a sunny day, so, I'm doing pretty well. Last year, I only used about 660 gallons of heating oil, which includes the indirect DHW, in a 4000sqft house, but with the volume of a much bigger home. I'm hoping the stove will cut my oil usage in half or less. Okay, I'm hoping much less!

No, I haven't taken any pressure readings, but now that you remind me, I will. Thanks for all the tips, exactly what I was looking for.
[edit]
So, I went to look at my one installation/use/maintenance guide to see what I missed about pressure readings, and did not find the vacuum readings that you have. Is there a separate "programming manual" that the installer has for reference? Also, I'm guessing the settings you are accessing are in the Parameters Menu, which I can't access without the Code. I'll contact my stove shop. Strange that they wouldn't mention anything to me. I originally wanted them to install the unit, but they were all booked up thru December, so I did the install myself. Thanks!
Ken

 

[EastMtn]

Lots of good food for thought there. I have 4 ceiling fans that can each push 10,000cfm. Unfortunately, I can only reverse 3 of the 4 for winter. That section of the house is very tight and gets good solar gain on a sunny day, so, I'm doing pretty well. Last year, I only used about 660 gallons of heating oil, which includes the indirect DHW, in a 4000sqft house, but with the volume of a much bigger home. I'm hoping the stove will cut my oil usage in half or less. Okay, I'm hoping much less!

No, I haven't taken any pressure readings, but now that you remind me, I will. Thanks for all the tips, exactly what I was looking for.
[edit]
So, I went to look at my one installation/use/maintenance guide to see what I missed about pressure readings, and did not find the vacuum readings that you have. Is there a separate "programming manual" that the installer has for reference? Also, I'm guessing the settings you are accessing are in the Parameters Menu, which I can't access without the Code. I'll contact my stove shop. Strange that they wouldn't mention anything to me. I originally wanted them to install the unit, but they were all booked up thru December, so I did the install myself. Thanks!
Ken

I guess you're covered in the ceiling fan department. Wow that's a lot of air movement and the solar gain definitely helps.

If you've got any pics of the install we'd all like to see them. Pics are worth a thousand words.

Sent you a private conversation about the other manual.

 

[chken]

I guess you're covered in the ceiling fan department. Wow that's a lot of air movement and the solar gain definitely helps.

If you've got any pics of the install we'd all like to see them. Pics are worth a thousand words.

Sent you a private conversation about the other manual.

I'm on a breezy lake here in Maine, and between the lake and the ceiling fans, I'm trying to avoid AC.

Sadly, I don't have any pics of the install, other than the pic in my avatar of it being fired up for the first time. After you build a large house, you become a little jaded about documenting every thing that you do! Maybe not jaded, more like tired. The stove seemed like such a simple install, I was done before I knew it! Thanks for the offer of the manual, I'll send you my email address pronto.

 

[kah68]

Wow thought I was alone...I'm running Ambiance hardwoods and the burn pot fills with clinkers after two days and the ash is heavy in my opinion. Going to look for a good quality softwood to compare. I just figured out how to program Energy Saving mode, hope this works better than daily program. I am happy with the stove so far but it looks like I have a lot to learn about set up and operation. Is anyone running OAK? Mine is just pulling from the room, just wondering if it makes that much difference in performance? Is there a feed rate adjustment and if so how does it work and what are you finding? Also what are you using to clean the glass?

Thanks

Kirk

 

[EastMtn]

Wow thought I was alone...I'm running Ambiance hardwoods and the burn pot fills with clinkers after two days and the ash is heavy in my opinion. Going to look for a good quality softwood to compare. I just figured out how to program Energy Saving mode, hope this works better than daily program. I am happy with the stove so far but it looks like I have a lot to learn about set up and operation. Is anyone running OAK? Mine is just pulling from the room, just wondering if it makes that much difference in performance? Is there a feed rate adjustment and if so how does it work and what are you finding? Also what are you using to clean the glass?

The manual says to use Beech wood which is a hardwood but I don't think the US market was considered when it was written because beech is prevalent in Europe as a pellet and I haven't seen it in the US at all. Oak hardwoods have a heavier mineral content which makes its ash denser and a pain to clean off the glass. Softwoods can seem ashier but weigh less and eject out of the burnpot easier. It's also takes less effort to clean the glass in my opinion. After you try out both soft and hard tell us what you think.

Energy saver mode works much better for mine and my wife's schedules compared to the daily program. While in energy saver mode if you want the stove to turn off for any length of time just set the thermostat below the room temps temperature and it will shut off but maintain your +/- settings.

I'm running an oak and exhaust in one pipe through the roof 16ft. Also at altitude of 7300ft. Exhaust is 4" and the OAK is the outer pipe at 7" I think. This way the exhaust pre warms the fresh air before entering the stove and clearance to the back wall on requires 1" min. The OAK makes a difference for me. Just for comparison I detached my OAK and took vacuum readings and then reconnected and took readings again. I had a difference of .1in wg at the lowest combustion fan setting. At the highest combustion fan setting the difference increased significantly. Also an OAK provides a dedicated path for fresh air to enter the stove. Without it the stove will pull in drafts from outside through the path of least resistance, typically a leaky window or door and make that area of the house feel colder.

There is a feed rate adjustment. Its in the menu parameters setting under "load". If you want the programming manual that gives you step by step instructions on how to adjust them send me a Private Message with your email and I'll send it to you. I'm finding that some customers get this manual when they get the stove and others don't. Curious, because when you change pellet manufacturers you will need to change the smoke or load settings to keep the stove running efficiently like it is designed.

Regarding the glass, some use a moist paper towel dipped in ashes, some use oven glass cleaner sparingly, I use only a burn pot brush most often or the brush attachment on my vacuum.

I took my stove apart this morning to search for the source of an air leak. I'll have pics of the Piazzetta innards on a new post if you want to take a look. I've been splitting my lurking time between this forum and stufapellet.forumcommunity.net using google page translate to translate from italian to english. That site has a Piazzetta and Ecoteck dedicated forum where people post daily. Makes me second guess not getting the multifuocco system.

Cheers,
JB

 

[chken]

Wow thought I was alone...I'm running Ambiance hardwoods and the burn pot fills with clinkers after two days and the ash is heavy in my opinion. Going to look for a good quality softwood to compare. I just figured out how to program Energy Saving mode, hope this works better than daily program. I am happy with the stove so far but it looks like I have a lot to learn about set up and operation. Is anyone running OAK? Mine is just pulling from the room, just wondering if it makes that much difference in performance? Is there a feed rate adjustment and if so how does it work and what are you finding? Also what are you using to clean the glass?

Thanks
Kirk

I'm new to pellet stoves, so take my answers with a grain of salt, but I use Windex to wipe the glass. Seems to work. Someone correct me if I'm doing something terribly wrong! I don't have an OAK, but I had intended to install one. The stoveshop that I got my Sabrina and Excel stovepipe from didn't have an thimble with OAK combo in stock, so I installed it without one. I'll install an OAK later.

As I see EastMtn has just chipped in, there is a programming manual that shows you how to make adjustments. My manometer should get here soon and then I can tweak my settings for my pellets. I was testing MaineWoods pellets and they definitely need less air. The funny thing is that I thought the unit must adjust feed and air automatically, since there was no mention of it in the user manual!

As far as soft vs hardwoods, I get far more ash with hardwoods, it seems like double, but I've only run 3 test bags a few times, since the manual recommended soft. With the soft, I can easily run a week, 10 bags, without emptying the ash pan. When I ran the hardwood test, I emptied the pan every day.

 

[chken]

when you change pellet manufacturers you will need to change the smoke or load settings to keep the stove running efficiently like it is designed.

Hope you found your air leak. I got my manometer and am eager to try fiddling with the settings this weekend after the weekly clean. I was wondering how you decide which of the two settings to alter, feed or air, or both? And were your factory settings out of the box the same as in the Parameter table, because mine are not. TIA.

 

[EastMtn]

Hope you found your air leak. I got my manometer and am eager to try fiddling with the settings this weekend after the weekly clean. I was wondering how you decide which of the two settings to alter, feed or air, or both? And were your factory settings out of the box the same as in the Parameter table, because mine are not. TIA.

I did and the stove is burning hotter at a lower fan speed now.
Let the fiddling begin. I'm still learning, so if you discover a better way let me know. Personally I started adjusting the air first to get a better flame. Many stoves are tested near sea level so the factory settings don't account for the oxygen levels at various altitudes. I had to adjust the air first just to get to a good flame and the in. WC that the manufacturer recommended. What I learned from the Italian forum was to start by adjusting P5 level settings once the smoke temp gets between 210 and 250 and work my way down to P1. Make small changes. Its okay to have pressure readings that are higher than what the manual states as long as you stay within the min max ratings. From the manual:

Generally speaking it is good practice when regulating the exhaust fan:
- you shouldn’t have values of negative pressure under 60 Pa which are considered broader line with the safety limit – and not higher than 110 Pa which would dramatically lower efficiency and would also make pellet “ float” in the burn pot, thus risking turn off when set at low power levels.
If the values shown on the micromanometer are not in line with the values printed alongside each parameter ( suggested values) which follow, then it is necessary to intervene and modify the values of the exhaust fan thus guarantying the correct adjustment of the parameters."

Changing the combustion fan speed will have an immediate effect on the manometer. The pellet feed rate can take 10-20 minutes to see the change in heat output and pressure.
My factory settings were identical to those in the Parameter table with the exception of 10P and 22P (Power level 5) which don't have numbers in the manual. I'm curious why your initial setting were different and what they were.
Also, under Settings Factory (code E9) you can access and change all 28 parameters. I increased the grate cleaning time and decreased the intervals between cleaning to help push more ash out of the burn pot and into the pan. I won't touch the room blower(23-27), alarm settings(11,13-15,28) or ignition and stabilization times(1,2).
It's a good idea to have a pad and paper to take notes as you change the settings. If you lose track or want to start all over you can use Data Bank to reload the factory settings. It will reset everything except your set temp and chrono. (Insert legal disclaimer here) .

 

[chken]

I did and the stove is burning hotter at a lower fan speed now.
Let the fiddling begin. I'm still learning, so if you discover a better way let me know. Personally I started adjusting the air first to get a better flame. Many stoves are tested near sea level so the factory settings don't account for the oxygen levels at various altitudes. I had to adjust the air first just to get to a good flame and the in. WC that the manufacturer recommended. What I learned from the Italian forum was to start by adjusting P5 level settings once the smoke temp gets between 210 and 250 and work my way down to P1. Make small changes. Its okay to have pressure readings that are higher than what the manual states as long as you stay within the min max ratings. From the manual:

Generally speaking it is good practice when regulating the exhaust fan:
- you shouldn’t have values of negative pressure under 60 Pa which are considered broader line with the safety limit – and not higher than 110 Pa which would dramatically lower efficiency and would also make pellet “ float” in the burn pot, thus risking turn off when set at low power levels.
If the values shown on the micromanometer are not in line with the values printed alongside each parameter ( suggested values) which follow, then it is necessary to intervene and modify the values of the exhaust fan thus guarantying the correct adjustment of the parameters."

Changing the combustion fan speed will have an immediate effect on the manometer. The pellet feed rate can take 10-20 minutes to see the change in heat output and pressure.
My factory settings were identical to those in the Parameter table with the exception of 10P and 22P (Power level 5) which don't have numbers in the manual. I'm curious why your initial setting were different and what they were.
Also, under Settings Factory (code E9) you can access and change all 28 parameters. I increased the grate cleaning time and decreased the intervals between cleaning to help push more ash out of the burn pot and into the pan. I won't touch the room blower(23-27), alarm settings(11,13-15,28) or ignition and stabilization times(1,2).
It's a good idea to have a pad and paper to take notes as you change the settings. If you lose track or want to start all over you can use Data Bank to reload the factory settings. It will reset everything except your set temp and chrono. (Insert legal disclaimer here) .

Was the leak in the stove or the venting?

Right, I forgot you're at elevation, so your settings will likely mean more air, right?

I don't have the settings in front of me, but my recollection was that the fan settings were off by 100 or 200rpm, but it was the pellet feed secs that were more off. When I do my tweaking over the weekend, I'll write them down. I'm wondering if perhaps my software version is different than the one in the programming guide. I'll have to check when the machine is OFF.

Changing the grate cleaning time and interval sounds like a good idea.

 

[EastMtn]

Was the leak in the stove or the venting?

Right, I forgot you're at elevation, so your settings will likely mean more air, right?

I don't have the settings in front of me, but my recollection was that the fan settings were off by 100 or 200rpm, but it was the pellet feed secs that were more off. When I do my tweaking over the weekend, I'll write them down. I'm wondering if perhaps my software version is different than the one in the programming guide. I'll have to check when the machine is OFF.

Changing the grate cleaning time and interval sounds like a good idea.

I found several poorly sealed areas. The drop chute that delivers the pellets had two. This is a problem because the drop chute goes through the room blowers area where it transfers heat through the rear heat exchanger before pushing out of the stove. When I turned the room blower on to a faster speed more the flame would pull away from the drop chute more. When you do your cleaning look at the drop chute behind the rear baffle plate. The drop chute is welded on. If the weld doesn't go all the way around and there's a sizeable gap then it should be sealed with hi temp sealant. One that's good for at least 700.
Right, stoves require more air at elevation. Piazzetta's don't have dampers so the combustion fan is used primarily for adjustment. I have seen people tape or weld a small bit of metal over the fresh air intake if the stove is getting too much air. This creates more air pressure rather than volume into the burn pot.

It could be that you have an updated firmware version. This manual was published in Aug. '12.

 

[chken]

It could be that you have an updated firmware version. This manual was published in Aug. '12.

I'll check my drop chute when I clean it this weekend. Though with it being this cold, below zero windchill and 2ft of snow predicted, I'm less inclined to play too much with the stove. Don't want to screw it up just when I need it most!

So, I checked the firmware at lunch. The manual said the machine had to be off, but I tried it while it was on, and it scrolled:

SP40 SC MV 1.1 115

Strange. SP40 seems right, as the manual indicates SP40 is Sabrina, while SP10 would be Monia. SC is the family, not the SY Multifuoco models. Not sure about the MV, though the V could be for "version" 1.1 which is what's in the programming guide, and 115 is the voltage.

Maybe the M goes with SC which would mean SC Monia? Let me know what your firmware shows.

Anyhow, while I was pulling the firmware off the machine, I also checked the Status to see what the feed rates were that I mentioned previously:

Power 1 - 3.3
Power 2 - 4.3
Power 3 - 5.4
Power 4 - 6.5
Power 5 - 7.6

A very linear progression, but not at all what the manual shows. Power 5 at 7.6 is like the manual's Power 4 of 7.7!

Anyway, that's what I've got. It looks far more like the Monia's feed curve than the Sabrina's! Maybe I was right about the SC M being for the Monia?!?

 

[EastMtn]

I'll check my drop chute when I clean it this weekend. Though with it being this cold, below zero windchill and 2ft of snow predicted, I'm less inclined to play too much with the stove. Don't want to screw it up just when I need it most!

Exactly!!

Maybe the M goes with SC which would mean SC Monia? Let me know what your firmware shows.

Anyhow, while I was pulling the firmware off the machine,I also checked the Status to see what the feed rates were that I mentioned previously:

Power 1 - 3.3
Power 2 - 4.3
Power 3 - 5.4
Power 4 - 6.5
Power 5 - 7.6

My firmware reads SP40 BV 1-1-115. Different from yours but I'm clueless on how to decipher it.

 

[chken]

My firmware reads SP40 BV 1-1-115. Different from yours but I'm clueless on how to decipher it.

Well, at least yours matches the programming manual.

What sticks out to me is that the pellet feed rates are so different, and that the 2013 Sabrina more closely matches the 2012 Monia feed rate. Here are my possibilities:
1) different augur requiring a shorter feed rate?
2) they loaded the Monia settings on my Sabrina?
3) something else

I'm not convinced about #1 as Power Level 1 has the same feed rate. I'd be more convinced if all 5 levels had shorter feed rates. As for #2, it's possible but strange. I'm inclined to go with #3, there's some other reason why they've altered the settings, perhaps for emissions reasons or something.

Anyhow, I started a new thread asking for others to chip in with their firmware versions and feed rates to see if we can figure things out.

 

[Griff726]

Reading this thread made my head spin. I'm half way through my sabrina install. I only have 20 bags of hard wood pellets that the dealer threw in. I have to try to find some softies near me.

 

[gdphishman817]

Would someone mind sending me the programming manual?

 

[chken]

Would someone mind sending me the programming manual?

Here's a link to the manual I put up on Dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogznqraei...023_E02_USA [MONIA_SABRINA].2012_max.pdf?dl=0

 

[gdphishman817]

Thanks chken, very much appreciated. My dealer is great but as far as I can tell, they know how to install these, and clean them, and that's it

 

[Griff726]

Up and running.

 

[solarstar]

Sweet I love it.