picking up a enviro Boston 1700 tomorrow

[jpcjguy]

Hi all,

So I found Enviro Boston 1700 used for sale. It got good reviews on here and my wife likes the look!
This is the fireplace it is going into:



Here are the dimensions of the fireplace:
37.5" wide at the front
27.5" wide at back
29" tall
22" deep

Here is the family room it is going into:



The house is 3000 square feet so I don't expect it to heat the whole thing, but being in Richmond, VA we don't get extreme cold either.
My chimney is pretty tall - I imagine around 30'. Here is a pic:

My question is around a liner - do I need one (I assume based on what I have been reading here), should it be insulated? The manual for the insert says 6". Any advice on the install?

Thanks!

 

[DB Cooper71]

I'm new to owning, operating, and installing my new fireplace insert. I did a lot of research before buying and installing mine. From my research and limited experience, I can say that the chimney should be lined with an appropriate Class A liner, all of the way to the top. Since it's an exterior chimney, it should be insulated.

I'm sure someone with more experience will confirm (hopefully) or refute this soon. Cheers on the new unit! And happy burning!

 

[begreen]

Congratulations. That's a beautiful insert and a good heater. It should have an insulated liner plus an insulated, damper-area, block-off plate if you want best heating. This stove is a pretty easy breathing insert. With a 30' tall chimney it's very possible the insert will need a damper installed right before the liner. There are a couple threads here showing how this is done.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/kuma-sequoia-review.174565/page-3#post-2353381

 

[jpcjguy]

Congratulations. That's a beautiful insert and a good heater. It should have an insulated liner plus an insulated, damper-area, block-off plate if you want best heating. This stove is a pretty easy breathing insert. With a 30' tall chimney it's very possible the insert will need a damper installed right before the liner. There are a couple threads here showing how this is done.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/kuma-sequoia-review.174565/page-3#post-2353381

Thanks! From the pics it looks like new. Back story is that the guy owned a company that sold inserts and wood stoves. The store closed (retired) and he did some selling on the side. It was a display model and then they guy "loaned" it to a seasonal craft store where they used it for one season. He then he brought it home and used it for one year. He pulled it only because he is going to a pellet stove as he does not want to deal with firewood anymore since he is older and retired.
He said he would warranty the fire bricks for a year for me (and something else, but I can't remember). Talked to him at length and got good vibes. Hopefully as a dealer he knew what he was doing and treated it well! I figure for 800 bucks it is worth a try! Aren't they like 3000+ new?

 

[jpcjguy]

So I picked up the stove last night. everything looks good. He put a new door gasket on it, gave me a couple spare fire bricks and said to let him know if I have any issues with the baffles and he would replace them and gave me about a 5-6 foot section of stainless steel pipe. I talked to him about the install. He recommended to clean and inspect the existing chimney to ensure everything is ok, remove the damper and then just run the pipe up into the chimney and use insulation and a block off plate.
I asked him about running a 6" insulated pipe the whole way up and he said that is an option, definitely, but can be installed without.
So considering the expense of a 35 foot run of pipe is around 1000, is this really needed? Is it an efficiency aspect? Trying to figure out/justify the expense. The manual says it can be done, but not recommended due to poor draft/performance. I can imagine that is an issue with a one story house, but with my tall chimney would there be a problem? Especially since it was noted above that I might need a damper because of my tall chimney/high draft. Looking for guidance/options.

Thanks!

 

[DB Cooper71]

Looks nice!

Good luck with the installation. I'll let the experienced members give advice on your question.

 

[begreen]

A direct connect with just a stub is 'legal' but not recommended for several reasons.

1. The exterior chimney is a cold masonry heatsink. By the time the flue gases reach the top of the long chimney they will most likely be so cold that the gases will condense into major creosote deposits inside the chimney.
2. Most chimney's do not have the 1" separation from combustibles that is code required for exterior chimneys.
3. The area of the chimney is most likely much larger than the 28 sq in. required by the insert. This will cause further cooling and slowdown of the flue gases. If too large it can cause very poor stove behavior like hard starts, smoke spillage and possible draft reversal.
4. Cleaning is hard. If cleaned from the top, creosote is going to fall around the liner stub. You don't want major accumulations of creosote around the hot liner coming out of the insert. It can ignite. This crud can only be removed by pulling the insert and liner stub which is a royal pita.

 

[bholler]

So I picked up the stove last night. everything looks good. He put a new door gasket on it, gave me a couple spare fire bricks and said to let him know if I have any issues with the baffles and he would replace them and gave me about a 5-6 foot section of stainless steel pipe. I talked to him about the install. He recommended to clean and inspect the existing chimney to ensure everything is ok, remove the damper and then just run the pipe up into the chimney and use insulation and a block off plate.
I asked him about running a 6" insulated pipe the whole way up and he said that is an option, definitely, but can be installed without.
So considering the expense of a 35 foot run of pipe is around 1000, is this really needed? Is it an efficiency aspect? Trying to figure out/justify the expense. The manual says it can be done, but not recommended due to poor draft/performance. I can imagine that is an issue with a one story house, but with my tall chimney would there be a problem? Especially since it was noted above that I might need a damper because of my tall chimney/high draft. Looking for guidance/options.

Thanks!

View attachment 242746 View attachment 242747

As begreen said above a direct connect it legal. But only if the chimney is code compliant already. Have you had the chimney scanned to check the condition of the liners and the mortar joints between them? Have you confirmed that you have the required 1" clearance to combustibles from the outside of the chimney structure?

Even if you do have that and it is legal the performance will suffer and the maintenance will be very difficult.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks for all the great information! Liner it is! Is there a recommended brand/type - and place to order it from? I am going to have a cleaning and inspection done by this outfit: http://www.richmondchimneysweeps.com/index.html. David was listed as a master chimney sweep and reiterated a lot of what you all said.
How much would a reasonable charge be to insert the liner? I can do all the hookups, insulation and make the block off plate. Being on a 40 foot ladder does not sound fun and renting a boom is about $300 - but definitely worth it as opposed to falling!

 

[bholler]

Thanks for all the great information! Liner it is! Is there a recommended brand/type - and place to order it from? I am going to have a cleaning and inspection done by this outfit: http://www.richmondchimneysweeps.com/index.html. David was listed as a master chimney sweep and reiterated a lot of what you all said.
How much would a reasonable charge be to insert the liner? I can do all the hookups, insulation and make the block off plate. Being on a 40 foot ladder does not sound fun and renting a boom is about $300 - but definitely worth it as opposed to falling!

Ask your sweep for a quote on an insulated liner install.

 

[begreen]

Rockford Chimney Supply has liners and so does Woodland Direct. Did you get a chance to look at the flue damper installation pics? I think it's going to be needed for this tall chimney.

https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/
https://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Chimney-Liners

 

[jpcjguy]

I did ask him about install and he said he doesnt do installations of liners. Mentioned liability if there is an issue somewhere in the pipe where he can't see......or maybe that is his answer because he does not want to do them any more!

 

[jpcjguy]

I did look at the flu damper pics. thanks for sharing. so you think I should go ahead and install one initially? Not sure how i would do an install that I can access easily to adjust it though. I know there is no way having a gap with a rod will fly with the wife.

 

[bholler]

I did ask him about install and he said he doesnt do installations of liners. Mentioned liability if there is an issue somewhere in the pipe where he can't see......or maybe that is his answer because he does not want to do them any more!

So find other sweeps that do. Btw his answer makes no sense to me at all. If he is installing it he should know if there was a problem. And if he has any doubts scan it.

 

[jpcjguy]

So find other sweeps that do. Btw his answer makes no sense to me at all. If he is installing it he should know if there was a problem. And if he has any doubts scan it.

Agreed. We did not talk long and I will revisit. I did like that he was in complete agreement with what was said here.

 

[begreen]

I did look at the flu damper pics. thanks for sharing. so you think I should go ahead and install one initially? Not sure how i would do an install that I can access easily to adjust it though. I know there is no way having a gap with a rod will fly with the wife.

Yes, I think you are going to need it. I have to ask, how will an overfiring stove fly with the wife? I see the damper as a safety issue. It will help you have better control over the stove. FWIW a damper handle on a fireplace face is fairly common. All it should need is a hole in the surround for the rod to pass through and then a handle of some sort threaded on to the end.

 

[jpcjguy]

Yes, I think you are going to need it. I have to ask, how will an overfiring stove fly with the wife? I see the damper as a safety issue. It will help you have better control over the stove. FWIW a damper handle on a fireplace face is fairly common. All it should need is a hole in the surround for the rod to pass through and then a handle of some sort threaded on to the end.

Good point. So something simple like this


And just customize the handle to work for me

 

[begreen]

Yes, weld on a threaded rod extension that protrudes from the surround. Then drill and tap a handle to fit. Paint it black to keep her happy.

 

[jpcjguy]

Yes, weld on a threaded rod extension that protrudes from the surround. Then drill and tap a handle to fit. Paint it black to keep her happy.

Any particular place it needs to be located? I assume right above the insert outlet since the rod needs to come straight out the front.

 

[begreen]

Yes, the simplest way is to have it inline with the flue in a stainless starter piece before the liner starts.

 

[jpcjguy]

Yes, the simplest way is to have it inline with the flue in a stainless starter piece before the liner starts.

That concept does not look very "sealed" - I assume where the rod penetrates the tube, it is acceptable to have a little gap?

 

[bholler]

That concept does not look very "sealed" - I assume where the rod penetrates the tube, it is acceptable to have a little gap?

It is a 1/4" rod and you drill a 1/4" hole. So it fits failry tight but yes there is a bit of air leaking in there. Not enough to cause a problem though.

 

[DB Cooper71]

Once the flue is drafting, doesn't it actually draw air in through a small hole, instead of leak out? I imagine when nothing is burning that it may leak air into the house.

 

[begreen]

Once the flue is drafting, doesn't it actually draw air in through a small hole, instead of leak out? I imagine when nothing is burning that it may leak air into the house.

Only if the insert is in a negative pressure zone like some basements. Otherwise there is some amount of draft present. If there wasn't, lighting a cold stove would require heating up the chimney first.

 

[saewoody]

That concept does not look very "sealed" - I assume where the rod penetrates the tube, it is acceptable to have a little gap?

Just wanted to let you know that I run the Kodiak 1700, basically the same stove as your inside. It’s been going for five years in a 30+ foot chimney with a 6” liner. Never had any overfire issues. Just some additional info to consider.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk