Pilot light keeps burning out?? Need help!!!

[torquen]

Hello all, I bought a Majestic FS42rp last year used. The last couple of months I took everything apart and converted it from propane to natural gas. I got the kit straight from Vermont castings. I had to replace 3 burner jets, the pilot jet, and a few parts in the regulator. Everything is working great! nice clean burn, pilot light is burning nice and the pattern of the pilot light is even and touching the thermo sensors.

When I install the first sealed glass door the pilot light remains lit and will run just fine. But as soon as I turn on the burners the pilot light will start to fade away and the flame is not contacting the thermo sensor anymore. Eventually the sensor cools down and shuts the regulator down and all burners and pilot will go out. The only takes a matter or 30 seconds to 2 mins. If I have the glass door off then the pilot light stays strong and will run for hours.

Out of things to try, I started backing a brass slotted screw out of the regulator. Located on the lower left side if you are facing the regulator. I was able to get the pilot flame to stay lit by doing this for a couple of days. But this morning the same thing started to happen again. To me it looks like its running out of air to burn once the main burners are turned on.

If anyone has any experience at solving this issue I would love to hear it. All of my intake holes "3" are clear and clean. I just installed the stove and ran all new type B exhaust pipe. It ran for several hours last night but cant seem to get the pilot light to stay lit on the side where the thermo sensor is.

Thanks,
Garrett

 

[altmartion]

what is the manifold pressure?

 

[torquen]

I could not tell you. I am sure I have a gauge to read it, where would I test and what range am I looking for? I believe the regulator was a sit.

 

[altmartion]

there might be a port on the in and out of the gas valve. you need to be able to read inches in water colom

 

[altmartion]

does it have an oxygen sensor?

 

[torquen]

There is a "in" and "out" on the front of the regulator. Two brass screws. If I open them up at all I can smell gas.

 

[torquen]

The pilot light has a small hood. It throws off 4 different flames. Two of the flames go to the small metal ramps that bring the gas from the burners to the flames. The third flame is on what looks like a 1/4" rod with a wire coming out of the bottom. My guess is some kind of thermo sensor. The fourth flame is going to the thermo sensor that shuts off the regulator if the temp does not stay high enough. This fourth flame starts to get very light and will eventually disapear once I start to turn up my burners. Once it disapears then the sensor is not getting a direct pilot flame and will shut down the regulator. If I have the glass door open the pilot flame will stay strong.

 

[altmartion]

The pilot light has a small hood. It throws off 4 different flames. Two of the flames go to the small metal ramps that bring the gas from the burners to the flames. The third flame is on what looks like a 1/4" rod with a wire coming out of the bottom. My guess is some kind of thermo sensor. The fourth flame is going to the thermo sensor that shuts off the regulator if the temp does not stay high enough. This fourth flame starts to get very light and will eventually disapear once I start to turn up my burners. Once it disapears then the sensor is not getting a direct pilot flame and will shut down the regulator. If I have the glass door open the pilot flame will stay strong.

are you sure the vent is not plugged?

 

[torquen]

It's all 100% brand new pipe. Installed unit just a few days ago. Before installing I was having this problem in my garage without any exhaust vent pipe hooked up. When I turned out the brass screw on the left side of the regulator it seemed to go away. I installed the unit in my house and it worked great all day without any problems. This morning I went to run it and the unit is shutting off again once I turn on the burners for a bit.

 

[altmartion]

it is hard without having gas pressure. it is either lacking air or gas if the flames fade out like that.

 

[torquen]

Here is the setup. Pretty straight forward. You can see in the picture the burners are working fine. This was last night. How would I get more Air into the unit if all the inlets are open and clean?
Its fed off a 1" line reduced down to 3/4" for about 6 feet. Then and 90 deg and down to 1/2" for about 8".

Ill try and see what I can find for manifold pressure. The regulator is a SIT 820MV.

 

[altmartion]

the problem is, to properly convert a unit you need proper tools and knowledge. it is not your fault. they should not sell this type of stuff to un qualified people. I am not trying to offend you. this is the stuff that happens. even if it is nothing to do with the conversion you did, we have to fix it first.

 

[Fake coal burner]

Sit gas 820 mv. Go to this link you tube it will show you how to test valve pressure and mv volts. If you don't have a manometer you can make one for about $2 . Get back to me and I will show you how. Its accurate I checked my homade one against the expensive ones.
Link

 

[DAKSY]

What kind of unit is this? Is it a Direct Vent? If it is, sure looks like you have B-Vent & if you do, it's the wrong venting...

 

[torquen]

Fake coal burner, I am very interested in the home made meter. I also watched the video and that seems very easy. But what if the pressures are off? Is there a way to adjust the pressure?

Daksy, the stove is a Majestic FS42RP. Converted to Natural Gas. Conversion Kit was sent to me by Vermont Castings as well as a manual and all the jets were the proper size via the manual.

The stove is a B Vent stove.. Not direct vent.

I feel like its running out of air. The pilot light will be very strong, then once I turn the burners up just a tad then the pilot light starts to get very faint and moving around and searching. Then eventually the flame on that side "1 of 4" coming out of the hood goes out. Once the Thermo Coupling cools the safety kicks in and shuts down the system.

The back of my stove has three "about 3.5" diameter holes. All three holes are perfectly clear. I can look right through my glass and see through them to the back side. I had the entire stove apart and cleaned everything. With the front glass piece off the stove will run all day long with zero issues and a nice strong pilot.

My back burner is a bigger orfice and puts quite a bit bigger flame out. The middle and front burner use the same size orfice and are much smaller. The front and mid flames are very very blue and almost clear at times. I have all the flame adjusting plates fully open next to the orfice. Should I try to slide these plates closed some and see if that helps? Only other thing I can think of is blocking one of the intake holes and seeing if that does anything.

 

[altmartion]

you need to find out what is stopping the intake air. how is this thing allowed to use combustion air from a living space?

 

[DAKSY]

you need to find out what is stopping the intake air. how is this thing allowed to use combustion air from a living space?

B-vents are natural draft appliances. They pull the combustion air into the firebox from the room they're installed in. There must be a blockage somewhere...
Or, now that I think about it, there may be another safety check in the system...Are there any wires coming off the gas valve & disappearing up into the stove body? Some of the VC B-Vents had a snap disk up at the top of the firebox. If the sheathing dry rotted off those wires, they'd short out & kill the burner. I can't remember if it was a quick kill or not. Doesn't sound like that's what's happening here, but I'd take a look...

 

[altmartion]

B-vents are natural draft appliances. They pull the combustion air into the firebox from the room they're installed in. There must be a blockage somewhere...
Or, now that I think about it, there may be another safety check in the system...Are there any wires coming off the gas valve & disappearing up into the stove body? Some of the VC B-Vents had a snap disk up at the top of the firebox. If the sheathing dry rotted off those wires, they'd short out & kill the burner. I can't remember if it was a quick kill or not. Doesn't sound like that's what's happening here, but I'd take a look...

I am just confused how this, being a gas appliance, is allowed to draw combustion air from a living space? code here say's no. and must be tagged.

 

[torquen]

I'm not sure what you mean by how its allowed to use compustion air from a living space? But basically its a steel box with the burners inside. The box has 3x3.5" holes in the back of the box behind the rear burner. This is the intake air. My house is 1900 square feet, so i'm not running out of combustable air in 30 seconds.. There are no screens on these intake holes. I could put a tennis ball right through them if I had to.

I talked to a hearth shop about 1.5 hrs from me. The guy suggested I build a small box around the pilot flame unit. He said the B vent units tend to suck in a lot of air and cause a turbulance within the stove causing the pilot lite to loose a finger or two of flame.

 

[altmartion]

I'm not sure what you mean by how its allowed to use compustion air from a living space? But basically its a steel box with the burners inside. The box has 3x3.5" holes in the back of the box behind the rear burner. This is the intake air. My house is 1900 square feet, so i'm not running out of combustable air in 30 seconds.. There are no screens on these intake holes. I could put a tennis ball right through them if I had to.

I talked to a hearth shop about 1.5 hrs from me. The guy suggested I build a small box around the pilot flame unit. He said the B vent units tend to suck in a lot of air and cause a turbulance within the stove causing the pilot lite to loose a finger or two of flame.

yea but will it snuff out the main burners too? if you crack the door or let more air in will it stay running?

 

[DAKSY]

B-Vent units are legal in NY State, but your local building codes may supersede the NYS codes.These types of fireplaces/stoves do not have a sealed combustion chamber and rely on the buoyancy of hot gases to vent effectively. They must be installed either with an existing chimney that meets the local building code standards or they can be installed using a B vent which is a vent pipe that must be installed to the same parameters of a masonry chimney but can be enclosed in combustible material. They draw air (oxygen) necessary for combustion from the area surrounding the fireplace. The combustion by-products or flue gases are hot and naturally rise up through the chimney which provides a route for these hot gases to escape from the house. As the fireplace continues to vent these flue gases up the chimney, the walls of the chimney heat up, which allows the flue gases to retain more of their temperature and buoyancy thereby increasing the speed with which they exit the chimney.

 

[torquen]

Daksy, the only wire going up that I can see is to the top sensor on the outside of the firebox. This is controling when my fan turns on once the temp comes up. I can crack my front glass piece about 3" on the bottom and the pilot light will stay strong and keep the flame on the thermo coupler. Once I start closing the glass the flame starts to flicker and then it goes out. The other 3 flames coming out of the pilot light dont seem to get affected nearly as much. But once the flame stops touching the thermo coupler the safety kicks in after about 30 seconds and kills the entire system... If I could transfer the heat from one of the burners down to the thermo coupler the thing would stay lit and burn perfectly. LOL.

 

[altmartion]

B-Vent units are legal in NY State, but your local building codes may supersede the NYS codes.These types of fireplaces/stoves do not have a sealed combustion chamber and rely on the buoyancy of hot gases to vent effectively. They must be installed either with an existing chimney that meets the local building code standards or they can be installed using a B vent which is a vent pipe that must be installed to the same parameters of a masonry chimney but can be enclosed in combustible material. They draw air (oxygen) necessary for combustion from the area surrounding the fireplace. The combustion by-products or flue gases are hot and naturally rise up through the chimney which provides a route for these hot gases to escape from the house. As the fireplace continues to vent these flue gases up the chimney, the walls of the chimney heat up, which allows the flue gases to retain more of their temperature and buoyancy thereby increasing the speed with which they exit the chimney.

sorry I must have gotten my threads mixed up. I thought this was in a bedroom.

 

[torquen]

No the main burners do not snuff out. They stay perfectly lit and strong till the regulator safety kicks in. I can hear the regulator click when it shuts the gas off.

I'm wondering if I were to get one size bigger pilot jet if that might solve the problem?

 

[altmartion]

can you run a temporary pipe to the combustion chamber for air? then keep the door closed?