Pioneer II or Lafayette II, plus important air temp question

[JLoft]

We're working on a plan to replace our 1986 wood burning fireplace, especially to get looking more modern plus hopefully more efficient. A total rip out and replace.

So I think the two leaders are the Pioneer II and the Valcourt Lafayette II (same as the Osburn Stratford II). We would want a fan, but probably don't need to supply supplemental heat to another room. We don't burn full-time, but still quite often to warm the house. We live in So MN. What are opinions on these two as choices?

And while I'm asking, two other names popped up: Fireplace Xtrodinaire Apex and Wilkening Gran View.

But MORE IMPORTANTLY (asthetic-wise) is the fireplace finishing. We don't plan on stone above the fireplace, but instead a large custom copper piece of art. This would be attached to the cement board above the fireplace and rise almost all the way to the ceiling. So the copper art creator is worried about the temperature of the air rising from the fireplace and up across his copper piece. The copper has a powdercoat on it that really shouldn't see temps above 200degF, and maybe even lower. The question - what temp really is the air coming out? What do you measure? And if too hot, what might be some ideas to mitigate this? We really don't like having a mantle though.

Thanks all.

 

[begreen]

I'd also look at the Nortstar and maybe add RSF to the looking.

 

[JLoft]

More thoughts anyone? Who has one of these fireplaces and could comment? I searched here, but found little to help me make a decision.

 

[J67Broz]

More thoughts anyone? Who has one of these fireplaces and could comment? I searched here, but found little to help me make a decision.

I had a Lafayette II installed last year and was burning it 24/7. The max burn time I could achieve was 8 hours with the air control on the lowest setting. It couldn't adequately heat my 2000 sq. ft. if the temperature dropped below 30F. To get any decent amount of heat out of it, I'd have to run the air at 50% and burn time dropped dramatically.

The fans on these units are notorious for being loud and noisy. They suck ash in which builds up and throws them out of whack. Quite frankly it is an un-nerving noise caused by the fan. With the fan running, the cement board above the unit would easily hit 125F. With the air control on low, it would average 105-110F. I had a non-combustible concrete mantel above the unit and these were the surface temps above the mantel.

The unit burns best when loaded N/S - however it can only fit a 12" split in this direction. You can fit a 16" split E/W but you have to prop the splits up off the coals on an "inverted V" of two smaller splits to promote air flow.

I hated this unit so much that I ripped it out and am installing a Blaze King as we speak.

If you are looking simply for ambience, it is fine...but the fan noise will eventually annoy you. The one positive of this unit is it is very easy to clean the flue from the bottom up. Remove two secondary air tubes and the baffle and you can run a soot-eater right up.

Hope this helps. Feel free to DM if you have any more questions.

 

[BKVP]

Keep in mind there are two types of "fireplaces". The first being those that are single burn rate (no ability to adjust burn rate and they are what EPA calls a actual fireplace. Industry defined them as not heaters, but rather decorative and used occasionally. These are not permitted to provide Btu's, efficiency ratings and imply they are heaters.

The second is a fireplace that is actually a heater. These are classified by EPA as heaters and are tested as wood stoves. These are then permitted to advertise emissions data, efficiencies, and the ability to adjust the burn rate.

When looking at options, you may want to take this into consideration and look for the unit that best suits your needs.

BKVP

 

[JLoft]

Thanks guys. I need to better understand this. The Pioneer is promoted as a true house heating fireplace. I know it’s “automated,” but still supposedly generates quite a bit of heat. I don’t burn 24/7, but when I do I want free heat.

The Lafayette is advertised the same. I’m unpleasantly surprised to hear about its poor function above from J67.

My current 1986 basic metal zero clearance blasts out lots of heat, however with shorter burn times.

I’m stuck using just my phone for research for the next couple weeks. I’m sure I saw some happy Pioneer owners when I looked before.

 

[BKVP]

Thanks guys. I need to better understand this. The Pioneer is promoted as a true house heating fireplace. I know it’s “automated,” but still supposedly generates quite a bit of heat. I don’t burn 24/7, but when I do I want free heat.

The Lafayette is advertised the same. I’m unpleasantly surprised to hear about its poor function above from J67.

My current 1986 basic metal zero clearance blasts out lots of heat, however with shorter burn times.

I’m stuck using just my phone for research for the next couple weeks. I’m sure I saw some happy Pioneer owners when I looked before.

Op,

If they are "heaters" and tested as soon, you can skip all the marketing stuff, go to the mfg website. There you will find EPA test reports. This will show lab data of efficiency, btu's and emissions. Then look at the next one. Write down the numbers. Lab testing is not reflective of real world performance but a great way to compare units.

And of course, owner satisfaction is key!

BKVP

 

[J67Broz]

Thanks guys. I need to better understand this. The Pioneer is promoted as a true house heating fireplace. I know it’s “automated,” but still supposedly generates quite a bit of heat. I don’t burn 24/7, but when I do I want free heat.

The Lafayette is advertised the same. I’m unpleasantly surprised to hear about its poor function above from J67.

My current 1986 basic metal zero clearance blasts out lots of heat, however with shorter burn times.

I’m stuck using just my phone for research for the next couple weeks. I’m sure I saw some happy Pioneer owners when I looked before.

I too had an early '90s ZC fireplace - which was a phenomenal heater but very short burn times. It had a small firebox that needed to be fed every 1 - 2 hours to keep the burn going.

When shopping to replace it, it was between the Lafayette and the Pioneer. The Pioneer dealer would do the install only, and referred me to a sub for all the finish work. The Lafayette dealer offered to do the install and finish work - hence why I went that route. I was also promised the world in terms of performance and was told several times that the Lafayette would "heat me out of the house".

If I were to do another fireplace (which I am not - anxiously awaiting my BK Ashford 30), I would go with either an FPX or the Pioneer.