Pipe burst and wood heat

[Jotul_Rockland]

Hi guys,

My hot water pipe burst - I'm calling the plumber. In the future, how do I avoid it? I have 5 zones of hot water based heat (baseboard).

Option 1 - Adding a device to turn on the circulators? What will be cost ? Who can install it?
Option 2 - Adding antifreeze in to the baseboard water. cost?


What's is better?

 

[mattjmcl]

I work for a plumbing company up here in Maine. We turn water on / off at over 500 summer places. Boiler antifreeze right now is going for about $18/gallon. With 5 zones, you could be well over 20 gallons of the stuff. Other thing, the stuff leads to other problems. Weight the pro/cons.

I've never used one, but have thought about one of these for my own house. ThermGuard http://www.bearmountaindesign.com/

Matt

 

[begreen]

I'm sorry to hear that happened. You bring up a very good question. This is not uncommon with first time wood stove owners. They get religious about never letting the primary heating system run and forget they have a very cold basement. When it gets cold, let the dang boiler or furnace cycle once in a while. And seal up any leaks in the basement. Often freeze ups occur near leaky sill plates, basement windows, etc.

 

[EJL923]

The only time i enjoy having a slightly undersized stove is for this reason. When the temps get in the teens and below, my furnace will kick on for a few minutes every hour or so.

 

[Mmaul]

I have wired my circulator pump to run continuously, when I shut the main power off in the spring the pump shuts down. I have never had a problem been burning for five years that way. This is what I would recommend. Also when the temp drops at night into the single digits my furnace usally kicks on once a night to help out.

 

[wkpoor]

Someone on here pointed out the reason why insurance companies really don't like wood burners and it was just for freezing pipes reason. So Basement wood burners do have at least one good reason to heat from the bottom up.

 

[Oldhippie]

I've got a cape style house with one side having a 1 car under garage.

I've got a wood burner in the basement and on the first floor of the main house, but the basement stove doesn't heat the garage area so it gets cold out there. When I first started burning I discovered that there were huge air gaps that the construction crew left around the sill of the garage side of the house that pretty much exposed those pipes to raw winter air. I rezoned the house and put the zone above the garage on it's own zone and also did a lot of work to insulate and plug all the gaps the carpenters left in the initial build.

Now when I've got both stoves going, which is only when it's below 20'F for a steady period, then I make sure I let that zone above the garage kick in on occasion. Especially when it drops below zero.

> 5 Zones

Wow!

 

[Jotul_Rockland]

Will the bear mountain design solution work for 5 zones?

 

[drewboy]

I have anti-freeze in my pipes as I have 2 zones that run thru a chase under a crawl space. My burner tech told me it has 2 disadvantages- it doesn't hold the heat as long as water and it tends to corrode the valves and connections faster. You can see some green 'fuzz' on the valve ends over the furnace.

 

[EJL923]

If using a closed system with anti-freeze, does anyone know (plumbers) if there very small losses of water, maybe through the pressure valves? My water feed is always on, which i assumed is the way it should be done. When i first purchased my house and the heat needed to be checked, the plumber filled the system and then left the feed water off. I did get some air in my pipes, but not much. I dont have any leaks in the system, i assumed it wasnt purged correctly.

 

[KennyK]

Another great forum, similar to this one, but all about home heating systems is www.heatinghelp.com. Good luck!

 

[stejus]

You have 5 zones??? That's a lot of zones to hook up the bear mountain device. I believe you need one for each zone. Are all of these zones subject to colder areas or just some of them). Trouble spots tend to be on northern exposed walls, especially those pipes that are inbetween the walls. Other areas are those rooms that are the furthest from the stove. Make sure all exposed pipes are wrapped in the basement and any that are near the sill plate, insulate good.

My forced hot water is two zone. I really only worry when temps fall below 10 degrees and don't rise the next day. We are getting a few days like this on Sat night and Sun. All I do is program the two thermostats to come on for 5 minutes at 12:00AM, 3:00AM 6:00AM and 9:00AM. By the time 9:00AM comes around, someone is usually around to manually cycle the thermostat if needed.

 

[ColdNH]

I work for a plumbing company up here in Maine. We turn water on / off at over 500 summer places. Boiler antifreeze right now is going for about $18/gallon. With 5 zones, you could be well over 20 gallons of the stuff. Other thing, the stuff leads to other problems. Weight the pro/cons.

I've never used one, but have thought about one of these for my own house. ThermGuard http://www.bearmountaindesign.com/

Matt

Thanks for the link, i think this is the perfect solution for the similar problem I think I will have in my house when i get a stove. (hot water baseboard, cape with garage under first floor, Thermostat will be close to the stove. heat will never kick on, previous owner had issues with pipes freezing in the garage even without a stove.)

 

[begreen]

Yes, rooms over garages can be notorious for this type of problem, as can be bathrooms over a ventilated crawlspace. Another solution is heat tape for problem pipes. Or run an electric heater with the thermostat set to 45F in the space during the coldest weather. In the least, buy a remote reading digital thermometer with a temperature alarm.

 

[maple1]

If one has a hot water baseboard heating system, and wants to burn wood, why not add on a wood boiler rather than use a stove? Seems to be a big waste having that heat distribution system there not being used. And if it's not being used - maybe it should be torn out all together?

Having said that, as others said, I'd bet the freeze was from poor air sealing - so tighten up the air leaks and you'll also have more comfort. Short term - turn the thermostat up once in a while.

All that is without knowing much about the heating system, aside from it has 5 zones.

 

[Mmaul]

If one has a hot water baseboard heating system, and wants to burn wood, why not add on a wood boiler rather than use a stove? Seems to be a big waste having that heat distribution system there not being used. And if it's not being used - maybe it should be torn out all together?

Having said that, as others said, I'd bet the freeze was from poor air sealing - so tighten up the air leaks and you'll also have more comfort. Short term - turn the thermostat up once in a while.

All that is without knowing much about the heating system, aside from it has 5 zones.

I have thougtht about this every winter for five years. I have a few issues one is cost to for a furnace with storage and also it would take more wood then I have cut and dont really have the space to store more wood.

 

[colin.p]

I'm sorry to hear that happened. You bring up a very good question. This is not uncommon with first time wood stove owners. They get religious about never letting the primary heating system run and forget they have a very cold basement. When it gets cold, let the dang boiler or furnace cycle once in a while. And seal up any leaks in the basement. Often freeze ups occur near leaky sill plates, basement windows, etc.

+1. I lived in a trailer for several years and learned quite early the first winter that I still needed to run the furnace every once in awhile, to keep the water pipes from freezing. Now, in this house, even though the basement walls are three foot thick, it does get quite cold in the basement so to stop a potential issue with the pipes from freezing, I have to keep a minimum temp for the furnace. So far, in the 16 years of living here (5 years with the Jotul) no frozen pipes.

 

[firefighterjake]

Insulating helps . . . however when the temps dip down to the low single numbers or below zero I'll sometimes run the boiler once or twice a day . . . to move some heated water through the pipes and keep things flowing.

 

[Oldhippie]

Insulating helps . . . however when the temps dip down to the low single numbers or below zero I'll sometimes run the boiler once or twice a day . . . to move some heated water through the pipes and keep things flowing.

exactly

 

[EJL923]

I've been on a mission this winter to seal up the basement, even made a sealed door at the bottom of the bulkhead, and also am making storm panes for my leaky basement windows. From what I have accomplished so far, the has house been noticeably more comfortable.

 

[HotCoals]

If you don't have it..insulation above the sill plate will make a huge diff.

 

[begreen]

Yep, caulk them first.

 

[mepellet]

I've been on a mission this winter to seal up the basement, even made a sealed door at the bottom of the bulkhead, and also am making storm panes for my leaky basement windows. From what I have accomplished so far, the has house been noticeably more comfortable.

I'm trying to figure out a way to make a sealed door for the bottom of my basement also. I want it to be easily removable and allow water to pass underneath it. We get water from the bulkead during wet stretches.

This fall I insulated the piping in the basement that was nearest the outside walls. And I plan on insulating the rim joist next.

I run the three heating zones from my oil boiler manually before bed and before work during cold stretches.

 

[cdaryl]

Yup just got off my but to turn he heat on in the house it's cold in ct tonight and the wind off the lake doesn't help, I refuse to put glycol in my pipes. It will corrode all the joints....thanks for the reminder to avoid burst pipes

 

[HotCoals]

I've been on a mission this winter to seal up the basement, even made a sealed door at the bottom of the bulkhead, and also am making storm panes for my leaky basement windows. From what I have accomplished so far, the has house been noticeably more comfortable.

I'm trying to figure out a way to make a sealed door for the bottom of my basement also. I want it to be easily removable and allow water to pass underneath it. We get water from the bulkead during wet stretches.

This fall I insulated the piping in the basement that was nearest the outside walls. And I plan on insulating the rim joist next.

I run the three heating zones from my oil boiler manually before bed and before work during cold stretches.

Does your circulater pump always run..that would help with freezing pipes.
Probably your zone valves are all in the basement though.