Planning a new home from the ground up - Let's talk 'wood'!

[CombatChris]

Hello, all!

My wife and I have been doing research on building a 'Tiny Home'- specifically one of the ones designed by Tumbleweed. Not one of those super-small houses on the back of a trailer, but a proper 3 bedroom, small, well thought out home.

http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/products/b53

~880 square feet over 2 stories. With good insulation and relatively mild NC winters, as well as being able to go green and off the grid for heat, we've been doing a lot of research on wood stoves. Now it comes to all the questions I've got....

When a stove says 1500-2000sqft, do they mean that in terms of both an upper and lower limit? Meaning, would something like the Efel Stanford 140 be absolute and unbearable overkill?

What drew us to a stove like that is:
The longer burn rating compared to others like it.
Highly rated efficiency.
According to the manufacturer's claims at least, it bills itself as a set-it-and-forget-it in terms of maintaining a good burn.
Aaaand the wife finds it aesthetically pleasing compared to a lot of others.

I'm hoping for some pointers in the right direction and I want to avoid as many inexperienced mistakes as possible. If we can find something that won't put out way too much heat but still provide a good burn time, I'm all ears provided it makes it past the wife.

As an aside- I've always had fun splitting wood- doing it for more than just a pretty fire and actually keeping the family warm is going to be so nice. And the new X27- I'm already in love with it, splitting some wood for my in-laws.

Glad to be on the board!

 

[Michael Golden]

Really neat little houses, bare essentials. Shouldn't be to hard to heat, I would think your winters stay pretty mild. I put a Jutol Oslo in a 1200 sq ft home I built and at times it does get warm, but most winter nights it feels just right. The only problem I see is it may run you outta your living room unless you can get the air moving.

 

[webby3650]

You are really going to struggle with most woostoves in that small of a house, considering it will be new construction. Non-cats will have relitively short burn times and will make too much heat most of the time. If you keep them shut down all the time you will lose all that efficiency and the glass will be dirty! If you size the stove appropertly, it will be too small for most "standard" size firewood. It's very frustrating when you can only fit a few pieces in at a time!

You should really consider a Blaze King. They are cat stoves and can produce big heat if needed, or low heat for extended periods of time. They really have the market cornered in this department! If you want controlled heat for a long time, look at the Blaze King Ashford. This is the 30 model, they are currently making a 20 that will be available later this summer. (broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-ashford30.html)

 

[Grisu]

That Efel would be total overkill. Not really because of its sqft rating but because of the 2.9 cu ft firebox. In NC that would be a stove for 1800 sqft and beyond depending on the insulation level.

As webby said: For your situation a small catalytic stove would be best as they can still burn cleanly at a low heat output. A small non-cat stove will burn really hot early in the cycle and then cool off more than you may want. Plus, those give out heat for about 5 to 6 hours meaning you will not get an overnight burn. A small cat stove on low gets like 10 to 12 hours. Possibilities include:

Woodstock Keystone/Palladium: small catalytic soapstone stove; the soapstone retains heat well and further reduces the the ups and downs you see with other stoves. Woodstock also has a 6-month unconditional return policy. You don't like the stove, get your money back.

Blazeking Sirocco, Chinook or (soon to come) Ashford 20: Essentially all the same stoves just with a different look. BlazeKing makes some of the most controllable catalytic stoves out there. Lots of happy BlazeKing owners here.

You can also take a look at the Buck 20 although it may not quite play in the same league as the other ones I mentioned.

If your home will be relatively air-tight, I recommend to add an outside air kit (OAK) to improve draft. In addition, please be aware you will need firewood with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. For that you have to split and stack it in a sunny and windy location for a minimum of 1 year. Most hardwoods need 2 years and some (like oak) benefit from being seasoned for 3 years. Give that Fiskars some action, not just for your in-laws.

 

[Wood Duck]

If you are off grid does that mean wood will be the primary heat source when the sun isn't shining? In that case I'd put long burn time right at the top of my list of factors in choosing a wood stove. I like the suggestions of a cat stove. I have a small non-cat stove, which I like a lot, but it burns hot then cools off after four or five hours as a couple guys describe above. For my poorly insulated house in cold PA that is fine - I try to keep it in the hot part of the burn cycle all the time. For you it might be too much heat then too little.

One final comment is that I don't think too much heat is a big problem. You can always crack a window while the hottest part of the burn is going, and that extra heat output would be nice in cold weather.

 

[CombatChris]

Thanks for all the input!

To combat getting run out of the living room, there's an open stairwell to the 2nd floor less then 10 feet from where the stove will be. This house will also have the minimum of air conditioning which means plenty of well placed fans. Those should help keep the house evenly heated. We might put a return system in if needed- that would help even everything out as well as give us a chance to filter our inside air.

I was worried that the stove would be overkill and that I would have to deal with the problems of smoldering and not having a right proper burn, killing efficiency and putting out a lot more creosote. That BlazeKing 20 sounds like a good solution with all points covered. If I have to make my logs a little shorter, that's not a problem. I'm checking out the 30's installation thread to get some impressions of the company/products.

I was worried that a catalytic stove would be higher maintenance and not worth the effort. But with the vastly different burn time and even-ness of the heat I think it's what we'll be looking at. I'll also check out the OAK system for the build.

 

[CombatChris]

Yes- we're going to try and be as off-grid as possible. Solar and wind will eventually either replace the grid or pump more into it than we use. Either way, wood will be THE heat source outside of an electric blanket if someone's sick and it's none too cold.

And regarding getting wood- I plan on scouring craigslist for what's available. People seem to always be asking for someone to haul away a tree they no longer want or one which had to come down after a storm. Which also means I plan on checking out pine. Yes, I know about the sap, and the creosote, and that it's got fewer BTUs in it per volume when compared to hardwood. But when dried right, and not left to smolder, and used in a catalytic stove, that should be of minimal consequence if correct maintenance is observed, yes?

 

[Bigg_Redd]

If we can find something that won't put out way too much heat but still provide a good burn time

Bad news: the stove that will burn a long time and not over heat a buttoned-up 880 SF house (especially in NC) doesn't exist. And that Efel 140 looks like way too much stove.

Good news: if you cut and haul and split your own wood then it's essentially "free" so if it gets too hot just open a window. I do it all the time.

 

[Grisu]

Which also means I plan on checking out pine. Yes, I know about the sap, and the creosote, and that it's got fewer BTUs in it per volume when compared to hardwood. But when dried right, and not left to smolder, and used in a catalytic stove, that should be of minimal consequence if correct maintenance is observed, yes?

Correct in all points. Dry pine can be as safely burned as any other wood. However, I suggest to cover those stacks on top during seasoning as in my experience softwood tends to literally soak in any rain.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah a little Woodstock cat stove is the answer for that place. Slow burn and long heat life from the stone. Only way to go.

 

[webby3650]

Yeah a little Woodstock cat stove is the answer for that place. Slow burn and long heat life from the stone. Only way to go.

Ya, or a BK 20!

 

[BrotherBart]

Ya, or a BK 20!

Long burn and heat life for squat. In the little space, go with the rock.

 

[CombatChris]

Either will do, I suppose- once we see the BK20 specs. Thanks, all, for great ideas. This is still something far off in the planing stages for now.

 

[webby3650]

Long burn and heat life for squat. In the little space, go with the rock.

A couple hundred pounds of iron on the Ashford does pretty good!

 

[BrotherBart]

A couple hundred pounds of iron on Ashford does pretty good!

440 pounds of rock does better.

 

[webby3650]

440 pounds of rock does better.

Nice! How long have you had yours?

 

[BrotherBart]

I don't have one. What does that have to do with soft heat life from mass in a small living space?

But member Todd has one and he says it just flat works. And he sold his Blaze King and kept the Keystone and he has owned more wood stoves than a stove shop.

 

[Charles1981]

A small soapstone stove? I don't know how small they make them.

 

[webby3650]

I don't have one. What does that have to do with soft heat life from mass in a small living space?

But member Todd has one and he says it just flat works. And he sold his Blaze King and kept the Keystone and he has owned more wood stoves than a stove shop.

I was just joking around. I like the stone stoves, in fact my next stove might be soapstone. The Ashford has been very comparable to a stone stove, its has a very pleasant heat. It's not overpowering in the room. It doesn't hold heat for a long time after the fire is out, but the fire never goes out!

 

[webby3650]

I was just joking around. I like the stone stoves, in fact my next stove might be soapstone. The Ashford has been very comparable to a stone stove, its has a very pleasant heat. It's not overpowering in the room. It doesn't hold heat for a long time after the fire is out, but the fire never goes out!

I should add that a stone stove won't be replacing the Ashford. I always keep a second stove in the far end of the house, where the Oslo is.

 

[CombatChris]

Right now it sounds like it'll either be an Ashford 20 or one of these soapstones. Now I need to work on a lot of the other things for this build.

A cold air intake setup for the stove's combustion air? Ok, where do I start with that? Would it be a kit the mfg sells or something I would have to fabricate?

As far as placement of the stove is concerned, I was thinking that I could have the plans altered and have a little alcove, ~12-18" deep pushed out on one of the wals and set the stove up (including all it's clearances of course) pushed into that so it takes up less of the already limited floor space. I've also been imagining that alcove lined with either stone or brick.

I'll of course need a wood shed to keep things covered for storage and drying, and checking out the 'show me your wood shed' has been inspiring if not impressive. I also wonder roughly how much wood I will need to stockpile - obviously a central NC winter is nothing compared to some people with -30 days... I think we had only 2 or 3 dozen days this winter where it was below freezing. Maybe a handful of nights in the single digits or low teens.

 

[Highbeam]

A huge drawback to those small woodstocks is ridiculous rear clearance requirements. Fine with a masonry fireplace install but not with a pipe and a small house.

I have owned a stone stove. The stone is not magic, not a big factor but does look nice. The cat is magic and those small woodstocks do have respectable burn times.

 

[Rickb]

Having a BK20 sirocco I can say this. any of the bk20's should heat that small house fine. The only draw back is you will only get around 8 hours of heat from it. Verses the 12-20 hours you will get with the 30 line.

Love mine. It keeps not only the 700sqft finished basement warm(76F) it keeps most the main lvl of the house warm as well(71) as long as the temp is above 10F. Below that my furnace kicks on once in a while.

 

[Grisu]

Right now it sounds like it'll either be an Ashford 20 or one of these soapstones. Now I need to work on a lot of the other things for this build.

A cold air intake setup for the stove's combustion air? Ok, where do I start with that? Would it be a kit the mfg sells or something I would have to fabricate?

As far as placement of the stove is concerned, I was thinking that I could have the plans altered and have a little alcove, ~12-18" deep pushed out on one of the wals and set the stove up (including all it's clearances of course) pushed into that so it takes up less of the already limited floor space. I've also been imagining that alcove lined with either stone or brick.

I'll of course need a wood shed to keep things covered for storage and drying, and checking out the 'show me your wood shed' has been inspiring if not impressive. I also wonder roughly how much wood I will need to stockpile - obviously a central NC winter is nothing compared to some people with -30 days... I think we had only 2 or 3 dozen days this winter where it was below freezing. Maybe a handful of nights in the single digits or low teens.

Best placement for a stove is in the center of the house as they are space heaters. Putting it in an alcove somewhere will probably require one or more blowers to get the heat distributed. An alcove will also make for more heat loss to the outside. I would rather think of adding a bit to the total floor space than plugging the stove in an alcove.

For the oak: You get an adapter that goes on the stove from the manufacturer. You will also need some vent pipe that you run through the wall to outside.

Wood shed: Wood needs wind and sun to dry properly. Stack it outside, maybe cover it on top. In the fall you bring as much into the shed as you need for that winter. Prepare about 6 cords for the next 2 winters. You may not need that much but whatever you did not burn you can use later. Wood does not go bad as long as it is kept dry.

 

[CombatChris]

Ok, so thinking about the placement of the stove in the tiny home. If this was a single story home like some I've seen with a large great-room, I would love to put it right in the middle. But with this smaller home being 2 story, it's got to get 'put' somewhere. Check out these 3 locations.

Red would be the little stone or brick 'alcove' to add space onto the floor plan just for the heater. Pros- more space to move. Con - heat is close to the wall and might not flow well for the house. Solution? Blower motor for the stove? A good ceiling fan for that room? Whole house fan/return nearby?

Blue could be in that corner. Either angled or put in @ 90*. I like this option the least.

Green would alter the plans by taking out that hall closet and putting the stove in underneath the stairs. I actually like this one the best. The heat can rise easily to the second floor, it's closer to the back of the house for that 3rd bedroom and kitchen, and it's out of the way. Maybe in the corner where the blue marker is we could put a coat rack, wardrobe, armoire, whatever.

Thoughts?