Planning phase for stove - advice / opinions wanted!

[archovist]

Good morning - I've lurked around this forum for about a year, since we bought a house (built in 2001) with a fireplace. The hearth (pic below) was one of the major draws for us, but when we bought the house we knew that we were going to need to get the firebox fixed or...look for other options. Yesterday we finally were able to have the chimney swept and the entire system inspected. Some of the things I can do myself (new chimney cap, seal the crown) but I know my limitations and am not going to tackle rebuilding a firebox.

Backstory: the house (1800 sq/ft, split almost evenly between two floors) sits on 16 acres of oak hardwoods in the middle of South Carolina, with plenty of potential for wood to stack, cure, and burn. I stacked about a cord of green oak last winter, and have another to split and stack just waiting till I have the time. My wife and I (and our son) are attempting to be not quite so grid-dependent, and using wood for heat is something we want to be able to do when the electricity is out.

That being the case, I think I have settled on the idea of a wood stove, and not an insert. Reading the forum here it seems like folks are usually happy with moving away from insert to freestanding stoves, especially when they don't want to depend upon a fan to circulate. I've read some of the great posts here about installing wood stoves through chimneys, and know that I will need to install a chimney liner, and probably extend the hearth out a bit on the floor.

As you can see from the pictures, the stone is really pretty, but I'm concerned that it doesn't provide a level surface when putting a stove there. The size of the opening is about 41.5" wide by 26.5" high. The back wall of the firebox is 35". The depth to the front of the hearth is 43", and the overall width of the hearth is 80". Oh, and the lintel is 50" above the hearth.

I would really appreciate any thoughts on my situation - stove size (or models), how to address non-level stones, the insurance factor (hence my plan to cut out some of the wood floor and install stone with rated backer board), or...other things I might not even know that I don't know. I am not sure if I should try to do something like a Jutol 500, one of the Hearthstone models, or a VC defiant, or maybe those would be too tall? Or something else! We are quite interested in being able to at least boil water on it for cooking purposes in case of power outage.

By the way: I'm a librarian and my background is in research, so if you think I need to do some more reading / looking please feel free to suggest resources!

This is not a rushed timeline: I can take care of some of the maintenance and install the floor stones this winter, and plan to purchase a stove next spring for use next winter. If things go faster than that, it would be considered icing on the cake.

Thank you so much for reading this far, and any input!

 

[chazcarr]

Welcome!

I know this goes against what you are saying about not wanting an insert, but that fireplace to me is too nice to go messing with. With that in mind I would look at the Blaze King insert line.
I have a Princess insert in a set up much like yours and with zero fan use it heats my house great (after a few airflow adjustments).
The thermostat works with no outside power needed. I only add wood twice a day and could probably go once a day in shoulder season.
The Princess and many other inserts have adjustable leveling pegs on the bottom so the stones will not be a problem.

I owned a Regency i2400 a few years ago, and that insert had a shelf on it that I actually did cook eggs on it during a power outage during Superstorm Sandy.

Good luck with whatever route you choose. For me it has been an addictive hobby.

 

[archovist]

Welcome!

I know this goes against what you are saying about not wanting an insert, but that fireplace to me is too nice to go messing with. With that in mind I would look at the Blaze King insert line.
I have a Princess insert in a set up much like yours and with zero fan use it heats my house great (after a few airflow adjustments).
The thermostat works with no outside power needed. I only add wood twice a day and could probably go once a day in shoulder season.
The Princess and many other inserts have adjustable leveling pegs on the bottom so the stones will not be a problem.

I owned a Regency i2400 a few years ago, and that insert had a shelf on it that I actually did cook eggs on it during a power outage during Superstorm Sandy.

Good luck with whatever route you choose. For me it has been an addictive hobby.

Thanks for letting me know your experience with not needing the fan with that model - would you go so far as to say you wouldn't even need to wire for a fan when installing? I'm not keen on running a power cord across the hearth, and it seems that installing the wiring inside the current firebox would be tricky.

Also, another question I forgot to ask (and which I am waiting for a response from my chimney cleaner): would the firebox need to be rebuilt before an insert could be installed? If so, that tacks on a significant cost, which is certainly a consideration.

 

[chazcarr]

Thanks for letting me know your experience with not needing the fan with that model - would you go so far as to say you wouldn't even need to wire for a fan when installing? I'm not keen on running a power cord across the hearth, and it seems that installing the wiring inside the current firebox would be tricky.

Also, another question I forgot to ask (and which I am waiting for a response from my chimney cleaner): would the firebox need to be rebuilt before an insert could be installed? If so, that tacks on a significant cost, which is certainly a consideration.

I am looking at the BKP (broken link removed to https://www.blazeking.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Princess-Insert.pdf)and it seems you would not need to make modifications to use the insert.
It works fine without the fan, and the fan can be removed if not wanted.
I do like having that fan there though to blast heat if I want to.

As for the firebox rebuild, that would be something your installer and town inspector need to decide.
The BKP comes with a shroud, so the firebox would not even be visible anymore for aesthetics.
I also used ceramic insulation to insulate around my insert and had a block off plate installed.
Just from pictures alone it would be hard to determine if the firebox is structurally sound.
However just by looking at it, it looks to be in fine condition, just need to clean out the old ash deposits.

 

[Blue Heron Hideaway]

what is the issue with your fire box

 

[archovist]

There is loose mortar and bricks. Nothing fallen out completely, but it looks like my 8 year old could tear out the back wall with his bare hands. I could probably repair it enough myself if I was putting in an insert or stove and not burning fires on it.

 

[Blue Heron Hideaway]

you could tuck point with mortar an it would be safe to use with a stove or an insert

 

[Blue Heron Hideaway]

whats your budget. the jotul 500 may not fit. FB3 would but may not heat the whole house in an outage. youmaynt have to messwith the floor if you use a jotul if your hearth is that large

 

[SpaceBus]

You do have a beautiful hearth, so I can see why folks are suggesting an insert. Could you run a chimney and stove elsewhere? Maybe just fix the bricks for aesthetic purposes and come back to it later. I doubt you'd need much of a stove to heat that house where you are. I used to ride my motorcycle around those parts in the winter. Perhaps a rear vent free standing stove could be placed on the Hearth with ember protection on the floor.

Either direction you go in, I would not go with something more than 2.5 Cuft of firebox. We heat a 1200 sqft salt box in Maine with a really small stove, 0.9 Cuft firebox.

 

[archovist]

Thanks for the input. Something to consider: my local retailer as a VC Encore for around 2k (non-EPA 2020 compliant), or could order a Regency Hampton H300 (2020 epa compliant) for about 2700.

Which would you choose?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the input. Something to consider: my local retailer as a VC Encore for around 2k (non-EPA 2020 compliant), or could order a Regency Hampton H300 (2020 epa compliant) for about 2700.

Which would you choose?

Not the vc

 

[archovist]

Not the vc

That is pretty much my impression, just wanted to check in case the newer ones are any better. Will steer clear!

 

[bholler]

That is pretty much my impression, just wanted to check in case the newer ones are any better. Will steer clear!

The newer ones are better yes. But better than what they were isn't saying much.

 

[EbS-P]

The height of your opening might make it difficult to get a freestanding stove installed or at least limit you options even with a rear vent. The jotul f500 is 28.5” and the short leg kits takes about 2 off of that they sell a leg leveling kit too.
Here is the f500 height
just to avoid a new hearth pad I would lean toward insert
Just my two cents

evan

 

[archovist]

Thanks, taking a hard look at the f500! Looks like I could make it work.

With the jotul, it just says that the surrounding hearth out to 18" must be fire resistant, but doesn't specify an r value. So if I install some stones out in the floor enough that would satisfy that requirement, and also look nice I think.

 

[begreen]

Yes, the Oslo hearth requirement is ember protection only. Stone is fine as long as they are grouted in between.

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks, taking a hard look at the f500! Looks like I could make it work.

With the jotul, it just says that the surrounding hearth out to 18" must be fire resistant, but doesn't specify an r value. So if I install some stones out in the floor enough that would satisfy that requirement, and also look nice I think.

I read it the same way. No R value. I was able to set mine back in the fireplace far enough and did not need any floor protection. If I did I would have used tile on plywood and secured it to the floor with threaded screw-in inserts set deep enough to be able to fill the holes during the summer with a nut or Allen screw. The point was to make is semi permanent. I didn’t want a toe stubber hanging out in my living room 6 months a year when it wasn’t needed. Bonus of the Olso is the side door. Would have gone that way last year but I really wanted white.

A more permanent solution would be to cut out floor and lay in tile or stone as flush as possible on subfloor. I believe they also sell fire resistant rugs. That would meet your needs but maybe not code( not sure at all). I had a log roll out off the front lip and on the hearth and almost off of it. Judging by your photo if that happens to you you would be picking it up off the floor.

I love my F400. I just wish I had a block off plate installed. If you want to set pots and pans on it don’t get the enameled finish. Your oak might not be dry enough. Last year. Thought I’ll just buy a seasoned cord... it was either. Pine And tulip poplar put up last winter is good and dry now. I should have just bought a pallet of saw dust bricks from tractor supply. Would have saved lots of time and frustration trying to burn wet wood.

Evan.

 

[archovist]

Update:

We decided to go with a Jotul F500! Ordered from the distributor yesterday, should be in soon. Got both the short leg and leveling kits, so I think things will line up ok. Now I'm looking into insulated chimney liners (existing masonry chimney is exterior) and learning towards DuraLiner because it is rigid, rather than having to deal with wrapping flexible. We'll be assembling the necessary supplies for a month or two, and I'll try to get things installed over Christmas break (the university I work at shuts down for a week or two, so I usually try to tackle big projects during that time). I think regarding the floor I will cut out what's there and lay down stone to match the existing hearth, although I've also thought about inletting the wood floor and laying down a piece of glass or maybe a piece of plate steel for a somewhat industrial look. Haven't totally decided.

We went with the standard matte, non-enamel, as we plan to do a lot of cooking on the stove top during the winters.

Thanks for everyone's advice - we looked hard at inserts, but at the end of the day we decided the stove route was best for what we want. I'm sure I'll have some more questions when it comes to the rest of the supplies and installation!

Edward