Plans finally coming together

[Medic21]

Piece of chit SF1000 has been set in the shop for modifications in making it a conventional stove.

Picked this up last Friday, 1 1/4” Thermopex.



More pics Sunday after I pick up the boiler and install picks coming...

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Don’t you wish you could get back the last 2 winters? I am 100% going in a different direction next season.

Good luck, will be watching from the side lines.

 

[Medic21]

Don’t you wish you could get back the last 2 winters? I am 100% going in a different direction next season.

Good luck, will be watching from the side lines.

There is no luck with this decision. With discussions from members here and other places this is a VERY informed decision. I’m picking up a Crown Royal MP7300 on Sunday. The plan was always to install an OWB within the next 5 years. HY-C just moved up my timeline a little sooner. Not liking the amount invested in doing this, no UTV for me yet but, it will be worth it.

 

[Medic21]

Loaded up for a three hour drive home.

 

[sloeffle]

I was on their web site yesterday. The OWB you are buying looks to be a gasifier ? It definitely would be nice to have all of the mess outside and not have to C/S/S so much

 

[Medic21]

I was on their web site yesterday. The OWB you are buying looks to be a gasifier ? It definitely would be nice to have all of the mess outside and not have to C/S/S so much

It’s the multi pass not a gasser.

 

[SpaceBus]

There is no luck with this decision. With discussions from members here and other places this is a VERY informed decision. I’m picking up a Crown Royal MP7300 on Sunday. The plan was always to install an OWB within the next 5 years. HY-C just moved up my timeline a little sooner. Not liking the amount invested in doing this, no UTV for me yet but, it will be worth it.

I've been lurking reading the HY-C horror stories from the sidelines. I browse the boiler room out of curiosity. These setups are really neat, but way too much heat for my needs. Anyway, good luck to you. My UTV budget got eaten up by more pressing matters as well

 

[SpaceBus]

It’s the multi pass not a gasser.

Seems like the best of both worlds. Do these models have a lot of smoke or is it pretty much like a normal indoor EPA Wood Stove?

 

[Medic21]

Seems like the best of both worlds. Do these models have a lot of smoke or is it pretty much like a normal indoor EPA Wood Stove?

I’m sure they are just like anything else. Burn them wrong and they will be calling the fire department for a possible structure fire. Do it right and, while not as efficient and a gasser, I’m sure it will be fairly clean.

 

[SpaceBus]

I’m sure they are just like anything else. Burn them wrong and they will be calling the fire department for a possible structure fire. Do it right and, while not as efficient and a gasser, I’m sure it will be fairly clean.

I read on their website 99% efficiency for the gassifier version, that's nuts

 

[maple1]

I read on their website 99% efficiency for the gassifier version, that's nuts

Haven't seen the website but that is a hokey number.

 

[Medic21]

I read on their website 99% efficiency for the gassifier version, that's nuts

CB has the highest claimed I have seen ever at 85% and there is no way that is achieved on a regular basis. Some of the temp monitoring to reaction chamber temps vs flue temps the math says 80% would be about average in any of them. And that is unbelievable for a wood burning hydronic heater.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I read on their website 99% efficiency for the gassifier version, that's nuts

that's combustion efficiency, IIRC....pretty much a useless number.

 

[E Yoder]

Agree, most gassers are under 80%. Otherwise you'd have to condense the exhaust gasses. 99% just means it burns up all the wood cleanly, 1% leaves as smoke.
Look up the list of compliant EPA hydronic heaters to get real efficiency numbers.
I spent a couple of days in a test lab a few years ago watching some testing on some non-gassers, was surprised how much efficiency varied depending on loading practises.

 

[SpaceBus]

Agree, most gassers are under 80%. Otherwise you'd have to condense the exhaust gasses. 99% just means it burns up all the wood cleanly, 1% leaves as smoke.
Look up the list of compliant EPA hydronic heaters to get real efficiency numbers.
I spent a couple of days in a test lab a few years ago watching some testing on some non-gassers, was surprised how much efficiency varied depending on loading practises.

OP, sorry for thread jacking! How efficient were the non gassers testing? Most of my reading has been on gassifier boilers, especially the natural draft gassifier.

 

[maple1]

I doubt very much there was any testing of non-gassers, using similar testing methods, that had results available to see. But if there were I'd be interested in seeing them also.

I would doubt many would be over 50%. Off the cuff feeling....

 

[Eureka]

I spent a couple of days in a test lab a few years ago watching some testing on some non-gassers, was surprised how much efficiency varied depending on loading practises.

@E Yoder do you know any of the approximate efficiency numbers you remember seeing?

 

[Woodman1]

The last year or so I was using my non gasser owb I did some small weighted burns that never put it into idle. Repeat tests put it in the low 30's. That was with seasoned wood. It also was a multi pass style owb

If anything that was an optimistic figure. This was the first full season with my EKO and 1000 gallons of storage. I used way less than half of what I was burning.

 

[Medic21]

OP, sorry for thread jacking! How efficient were the non gassers testing? Most of my reading has been on gassifier boilers, especially the natural draft gassifier.

Always a place for a good discussion.

I have spoke to a lot of people that have switched from a smoke generator conventional like a CB Classic, Woodmaster, etc to one of these Multi Pass or similar like the C or MF series from Heatmaster. There are no hard numbers but to a person they have used almost 50% less wood in one year.

I am going this route because I will be able to burn coal if needed. If I injure myself through my job or something else happens it will be nice to have that back up.

 

[E Yoder]

What I remember (it's been 5+ years ago) on efficiency numbers was that they varied from 30-60%. I was surprised how much loading practises, moisture, wood size, etc. affected the numbers.
Key thing with a conventional was not overloading for 24 hour+ burns, better to aim for 12 hour burn, leaving some room in the top of the firebox above the fuel load for gasses to burn off. Don't force the long flames against the water jacket. The low efficiency numbers would represent the careless user that burns with ash choking the grates, slow smokey burn, jammed full of wood.
A multi-pass conventional can do pretty good with a smart operator, not so good used foolishly.
That's where a gasser shines, it has a very controlled consistent reburn.

 

[Eureka]

I have noticed some of those same things on my Heatmaster C series. If I pack it to the ceiling it smokes more and seems to take longer to recover. Leaving some room for reburn over the fire helps a lot with that and I have opened the door during a hot burn and witnessed some good blue flame secondary action happening in the baffle area on top. I think that only happens during a longer heat cycle on a properly loaded firebox though. If I fill it 1/3-1/2 full and leave some room at the front for air to get up through the grates I get hardly any smoke at all; just a heat signature. The fire is very intense, almost white flame color, at the grate level with the fan running on a proper load.
Same thing with the ash pan, I keep it clean and empty it out every couple days. It's too easy not to and makes the furnace work much better as in faster recovery and less smoke. My ash doubles as an awesome traction aid/snow melt on my driveway in winter.
Flue temps (measured 16-20" up the stack) usually settle somewhere in the 5-700 range with the multi-pass area cleaned out and I notice they climb a little when it's time to clean. I tried removing all the baffles and running it during a cleaning and saw flue temp up into the 1200-1300 range . Goes to show how well this simple multi-pass exchanger works. I think you'll be very happy with your Crown Royal stove @Medic21. They have gone a step further with the heat exchange area and sound like a great company as well. I believe they have the most efficient non-gasifier out there.

 

[Medic21]

I have noticed some of those same things on my Heatmaster C series. If I pack it to the ceiling it smokes more and seems to take longer to recover. Leaving some room for reburn over the fire helps a lot with that and I have opened the door during a hot burn and witnessed some good blue flame secondary action happening in the baffle area on top. I think that only happens during a longer heat cycle on a properly loaded firebox though. If I fill it 1/3-1/2 full and leave some room at the front for air to get up through the grates I get hardly any smoke at all; just a heat signature. The fire is very intense, almost white flame color, at the grate level with the fan running on a proper load.
Same thing with the ash pan, I keep it clean and empty it out every couple days. It's too easy not to and makes the furnace work much better as in faster recovery and less smoke. My ash doubles as an awesome traction aid/snow melt on my driveway in winter.
Flue temps (measured 16-20" up the stack) usually settle somewhere in the 5-700 range with the multi-pass area cleaned out and I notice they climb a little when it's time to clean. I tried removing all the baffles and running it during a cleaning and saw flue temp up into the 1200-1300 range . Goes to show how well this simple multi-pass exchanger works. I think you'll be very happy with your Crown Royal stove @Medic21. They have gone a step further with the heat exchange area and sound like a great company as well. I believe they have the most efficient non-gasifier out there.

My plan was a C series based on the cost difference. What I see as a gain in efficiency is minimal between the two. When this deal, used 3 months for a significant discount, dropped in my lap I went with it. I agree it looks to be a little better based on the secondary air injection and water jacket in the multi pass area. I’m excited to get the install completed.

 

[SpaceBus]

That's quite impressive for an inherently inefficient water cooled firebox. I can see being able to fairly efficiently burn any type of biomass without smoke to be a great benefit to this style of boiler.

 

[Eureka]

That's quite impressive for an inherently inefficient water cooled firebox. I can see being able to fairly efficiently burn any type of biomass without smoke to be a great benefit to this style of boiler.

I am very happy with mine. But it's worth saying that there is still periodically smoke, just much less than some of the simpler units I've been around. As E Yoder said, loading practices are a big variable. I loaded it with too much junk and scraps the first few times and it was pumping out smoke like a train. 10 minutes after loading however, it clears up and smoke is minimal.

 

[SpaceBus]

I am very happy with mine. But it's worth saying that there is still periodically smoke, just much less than some of the simpler units I've been around. As E Yoder said, loading practices are a big variable. I loaded it with too much junk and scraps the first few times and it was pumping out smoke like a train. 10 minutes after loading however, it clears up and smoke is minimal.

Even gassifiers smoke at startup, my little EPA stove smokes at startup. That's to be expected. I didn't know it was possible to operate a traditional OWB without loads of smoke, which is the only way I've ever seen them.