Pleasant Hearth 1800 Air Space?

[MoDoug]

Hello all!

I know it has been discussed previously, probably ad nauseam. But no matter how much I read and research I can't quite decide how to handle my clearance to combustible with regards to the 1 inch air space. The manual for my stove, a Pleasant Hearth 1800, makes no mention of the air space, it just says I need 14 inches of clearance to combustibles. But the manual has also neglected to mention the recommended r-value for the floor covering, which I mentioned to the company and have also unfortunately been really disappointed in so far.... but more on that later....

Back to the issue, the stove needs 14 inches to combustibles, and I have up to 19 inches of clearance to work with on the back of the stove. This is a new room build and has 2x6 framing, with insulation but no wall covering. My plan is to install some durock cement board, one or two layers if needed, then screw and cement some limestone slabs to the studs, some of the slabs are up to about 2 inches thick. The limestone will be decoration, and since the stove will be 19 inches from combustibles I don't think it will be needed as a heat shield.

Do I need the 1 inch air space if it is not mentioned in the manual and I'm within the clearance to combustible to work with? The manual has proven to have discrepancies and I'm not sure I trust it, nor has the company been very helpful.

Thanks in advance for any help,
Larry

 

[begreen]

What's the model number of the stove? WS-2720? If yes that has a hearth insulation requirement of R=0.893.

The stove manual does not offer any option for clearance reduction. You do not need any air space for wall shielding behind the stove. The clearances are measured to the combustibles which in this case will be the studs and drywall behind the cement board and stone veneer.

 

[MoDoug]

begreen, thank you for the reply. My stove and model number are Pleasant Hearth 1800 model LWS-127201.

It's good to know I do not need the air space between my stove and combustibles. Thank you for confirming that.

It's interesting you come up with a hearth insulation of R=0.893, may I ask where you come up with that number?

The reason I ask, and please bear with me on this... the manual that came with my stove makes no mention of an r-value requirement, nor does the manual for my stove on the manufacturer web site. When researching stoves I remembered the two other stoves from the same company mentioned the required r-value for the floor covering. In one of my emails to the manufacturer I mentioned there was no r-value for my stove, their customer service replied back asking for my model number and said her manual specifies the r-value for my stove.

I sent her links from their web site for the 3 wood stoves they sell, and pointed out what the r-values are in their manuals. The stoves mentioned below have links, the r-values are on page 4 of each manual.

Interestingly, the (broken link removed to http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/manuals/wood-stoves/Small%20Wood%20Stove%20Manual%202016%20-%20HWS-224172MH%20-%20TRI.pdf) (small stove) says it has a floor r-value requirement of 0, meaning there is no thermal protection required.
My stove the (broken link removed to http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/manuals/wood-stoves/Medium%20Wood%20Stove%20Manual%202016%20-%20LWS-127201%20-%20TRI.pdf) (medium stove), does not mention any required r-value.
The (broken link removed to http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/manuals/wood-stoves/Large%20Wood%20Stove%20Owners%20Manual%202016%20TRI.pdf) (large stove) requires an r-value of 2, and provides formulas to determine how suitable the material is.

I asked her what her manual showed for my stoves r-value, and she had it at 2, same as the large wood stove. You mention my stoves R-value is 0.893, which seems more what it should be. But this is my first experience with any of this, so what do I know.

This whole r-value situation seems odd to me. I'm doing my own install, with my insurance company's approval as long as it meets specifications and I document everything. I live in an area with no codes or regulations and even our fire department will not come out to inspect it, I guess they don't want the liability. I'm trying to be very meticulous. Unless I'm being overly cautious, even if a professional did my install, following the requirements in the manual that came with my stove, and did not have the proper r-value it could potentially put our property and lives at risk. And if the worse did happen, would the insurance company deny any claims... With the EPA and UL requirements I'm surprised their documentation has these differences.

Maybe I'm over thinking this. I have to admit it has been a lot more involved than I anticipated, but that's also a good thing because it helps me understand my stove a lot better. I know it will be worth it once it is done.

Again thank you!

 

[begreen]

This is what I see in the copy of the manual that I have.

 

[Happy Stacker]

.
The (broken link removed to http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/manuals/wood-stoves/Large%20Wood%20Stove%20Owners%20Manual%202016%20TRI.pdf) (large stove) requires an r-value of 2, and provides formulas to determine how suitable the material is.

I have the PH 2200 and my manual on page 3 states an R value of 1.19

 

[MoDoug]

begreen, I found a copy of the manual from your screen shot, it is included in the the EPA report from when it was originally certified in June 2010. I have to wonder if the stove itself has gone through any changes since it was certified. Although it would seem if it had, they would have had to re-certify it. I found a similar discussion on here from 2014. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pleasant-hearth-up-and-burning.132076/

 

[MoDoug]

I have the PH 2200 and my manual on page 3 states an R value of 1.19

Happy Stacker, things seem to get more confusing. I see what you're talking about, the owners manual on GHP Groups web site for the PH 2200 does show an R-value of 1.19 on page 3, and on the very next page it says the R-value is 2.... two different specs in the same document. (broken link removed to http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/manuals/wood-stoves/Large%20Wood%20Stove%20Owners%20Manual%202016%20TRI.pdf)

 

[Happy Stacker]

Happy Stacker, things seem to get more confusing. I see what you're talking about, the owners manual on GHP Groups web site for the PH 2200 does show an R-value of 1.19 on page 3, and on the very next page it says the R-value is 2.... two different specs in the same document. (broken link removed to http://www.ghpgroupinc.com/manuals/wood-stoves/Large%20Wood%20Stove%20Owners%20Manual%202016%20TRI.pdf)

I just looked at my manual again and you are correct. Very confusing. I will add I am very happy with my stove.

 

[begreen]

MoDoug, thanks for pointing this out. They have changed the documentation for this stove in this specific area. I see the O-T L testing report number has changed too. The new manual says ember protection only required. My doc for this stove is from 2014. Not sure what was changed to achieve the lower hearth protection.


For peace of mind it doesn't hurt to exceed specs. If you want more hearth protection put down two layers of Durock NexGen before tiling.

 

[MoDoug]

Happy Stacker, It's good to hear you're happy with your stove, I chose the Pleasant Hearth because it had good reviews, and Menards had their 11% rebate going..... hey what can I say, I'm up for saving a couple bucks when possible.. and the free home delivery was great too! I'm really looking forward to firing it up!

 

[MoDoug]

begreen, I've read several posts on this forum while learning about wood stoves, and appreciate the help you've provided everyone over the years. Thank you for your dedication and passion on helping people.

I've been in touch with GHP Groups customer service and continue to be disappointed with vague and incomplete responses. No matter how much info I provide them or point them in the right direction they keep pushing back. According to them my manual is incorrect. The EPA label on the back of my stove is the same as the manual that came with it. I'm leaning toward the label on the back of the stove as being correct. Bottom line, either my manual is incorrect, or the information the customer service rep is giving me is incorrect. It's in my nature to get to the bottom of this, just for the sake of accuracy, it needs to be.

You're right though, I can and should go with the peace of mind, and go the extra mile with the durock.

 

[Happy Stacker]

MoDoug...I am curious as to what you paid. I bought mine last Sept on sale at TSC for $999 CDN which converts to $780 US. No free delivery however.

 

[MoDoug]

Happy Stacker, I paid $667 after the rebate. As far the delivery goes, besides being free it worked out great because the driver was able to back up to my new room addition, no porch yet, and lower the 300 lb stove onto the front door and roll it into the new room. A neighbor loaned me a large dolly with wheels and I've been rolling it around as needed to get work done. I have more time and money into the venting than the stove, I went with the Selkirk Supervent, because of reputation and Menards sold it. Every once in a while timing is on my side, I happened to stop by Lowes on my way to pick up the pipe, and Lowes had my 3' sections on clearance, I saved $80 on 4 pieces.

 

[Bigger_Al]

I too went the route of a stove through Menards and the 11%rebate. I got the Drolet Escape 1800. It also has a ember protection only requirement for the hearth pad. I did what has been suggested and overbuilt the hearth pad, but only to R1.0. The pad temps are 75 to 81 degrees with stove at 500 degrees. The Drolet puts all its heat straight out the front.

 

[MoDoug]

I have an inexperienced question, that sounds better than having a dumb question.... in the world of wood stoves, if my manual does not specifically provide any r-value and only says it must be installed on a noncombustible floor, is that is the same as saying "ember protection only" required?

 

[begreen]

I have an inexperienced question, that sounds better than having a dumb question.... in the world of wood stoves, if my manual does not specifically provide any r-value and only says it must be installed on a noncombustible floor, is that is the same as saying "ember protection only" required?

Yes.

 

[MoDoug]

Thanks for the replies, I finally got a solid answer about my hearth requirements and it is ember protection only. No explanation about why the differences or why they changed it. I'm just glad to finally get an answer. This stove does have a pretty large and solid ash pan on the bottom and I have to wonder if that has some bearing on why the change in the r-value. I'm creeping my way toward getting it installed and operational.... I've been busy framing windows, installing electrical and car siding.