Pleasant Hearth draft defect?

[outbackkarl]

I just replaced an old small wood stove with the Pleasant Hearth WS-2417 from Lowes, $499 was a great price I thought. First firing last night revealed there is no draft coming into the stove, the adjustment makes no difference. Wood burns fine with the door open. The original stove had excellent draft in all weather conditions. The installation uses a stainless insulated 6" pipe about 12 feet tall, all the way from the stove to the top swivel cap. Just cleaned fully during the installation.

Today I removed the unburnt wood from last night and removed fire brick looking for answers. The damper is under the stove near the front. I used a shop vac to remove the remnants from last night, then poked around with a solid wire trying to find exactly where the air is supposed to come into the firebox, never actually finding any openings. Going further, I connected the shop vac to blow into the damper and felt nothing coming into the stove with the damper full open. A sheet a paper held inside didn't even flutter. So I then started a small fire again, got it burning well with the door open, closed the door to watch it slowly starve for oxygen. Trying the shop vac idea again, I could only get a tiny flicker to show up.

Did I get a defective stove, did someone at the factory weld the air chamber incorrectly? Other ideas?

 

[MaineGuideMK]

I'm not familiar with those stoves, but my guess is that it's not a malfunctioning stove. When I replaced the old coal stove--today actually--with my new to me Regency 2400, I noticed I wasn't getting the same draft I had before. I think a couple of things are at play. I've heard that new fire bricks retain moisture. After a few fires they should dry out and you'll get a better draft. My other thought is that your new stove is much more efficient and air tight. I bet you have to get the chimney/stove pipe pretty hot before it will draw well. Break in your stove they way the manufacturer recommends, then try to build a nice big fire. Get the pipe nice and hot and get a nice bed of coals going. Then, I bet you can turn it down and feel the heat.

Those are my thoughts. Someone with more experience might have some ideas.

 

[outbackkarl]

Maybe you missed the part where using a shop vac to blow in air nothing actually went in, pointing to an actual blockage?

 

[Lake Girl]

Maybe you missed the part where using a shop vac to blow in air nothing actually went in, pointing to an actual blockage?

Using the vacuum blower in the inlet for the OAK? Tried moving draft in both directions JIC they wrote the manual incorrectly and it moves opposite the direction stated? What is the policy at Lowe's? Purchased on credit card?

 

[outbackkarl]

Yes, I can actually see the damper opening, it's rather crude and welded under the stove. I'm a veteran mechanic, welder fabricator so it's not something I can't see or figure out. I was able to poke a solid thin wire from the damper slide opening into the stove, but apparently they never completed any openings from the plenum into the stove.

 

[kennyp2339]

My money is on the flue not being long enough, those stoves need 15ft minimum flue height, any 90deg elbows subtract 3ft for each elbow of flue length.

 

[outbackkarl]

In other words, the damper opens into a plenum just below the door but there is either no exit or they welded the plenum too tight against the inside on the stove. I'll be talking to the manufacturer tomorrow, maybe this isn't the first one.

 

[outbackkarl]

Kenny, if no air can be forced into the stove it wouldn't matter how tall the chimney was. Air has to come in somewhere

 

[bholler]

Yes, I can actually see the damper opening, it's rather crude and welded under the stove. I'm a veteran mechanic, welder fabricator so it's not something I can't see or figure out. I was able to poke a solid thin wire from the damper slide opening into the stove, but apparently they never completed any openings from the plenum into the stove.

It is unlikely that the holes were never made but I guess it could happen especially on a low end stove like this I doubt their quality control is as good as it is on other stoves. I would try compressed air in the actual inlet hole.

 

[outbackkarl]

My post was originally written with the intent of asking if anyone else has run into a production issue like this

 

[outbackkarl]

Bholler, that's exactly what I did, with the vac

 

[bholler]

Bholler, that's exactly what I did, with the vac

Listen we hear this complaint all the time here. People blame the stove right away when it very rarely is the stove. In fact I remember a post exactly like yours last year where someone swore there were no holes and they used a vacuum ect ect. They bought some compressed logs and waited till the outside temps dropped and miraculously it worked fine. Don't get upset when people are trying to help you figure out what the issue is. And there will almost never be a direct shot in that you could tread a wire through.

 

[outbackkarl]

Outside temps were 30 last night, 40s today. I will add another 3' section to the chimney tomorrow.

 

[bholler]

Outside temps were 30 last night, 40s today. I will add another 3' section to the chimney tomorrow.

Ok what fuel were you using? What were your stack temps like? With those temps you should not have an issue establishing decent draft.

 

[tarzan]

Strange things can happen but if anyone who has posted over the years that the intake was somehow blocked in there new epa approved stove turned out to be right it would indeed be strange.

These stoves need dry wood and good draft. If your wood isn't properly seasoned you are fighting a loosing battle. Best way to check your wood is to get a couple packs of bio-bricks and a moisture meter. If the bio-bricks do well then your wood probably ain't ready.

With the moisture meter, you would want to resplit a split at room temperature and take a reading on the fresh face of one or both of the splits. <21% would be great. 21 to 25% would probably get you through the winter, above that and it's time for plan B.

 

[begreen]

The most likely suspects have already been mentioned - weak draft and partially seasoned wood. Go on that premise and assume for now that the stove is fine. Modern stove need strong enough draft to pull the air through the secondary manifold and dry wood to burn well.

The installation uses a stainless insulated 6" pipe about 12 feet tall, all the way from the stove to the top swivel cap.

Does the chimney pipe go all the way down to the stove? If so, how is a tight connection being made at the stove? An air leak at the flue collar can spoil draft. Can you post a picture of the setup?
For wood, do you have some nice dry 2x4 cutoffs that you can burn in a test fire? That would eliminate concerns about wood moisture.

 

[Lake Girl]

May be a problem ... (broken link removed)

 

[JA600L]

May be a problem ... (broken link removed)

Sure looks like they have been problematic. I would take it back, demand a refund, and spend more money for a real stove.

 

[Lake Girl]

I'm still curious as to location of outside air inlet ... have you identified it's location within the pedestal and is there an opening in the back to route the flex line through? Is that were you tried to blow into with the vacuum?

Sorry ... reread your post and sounds like you found it.

 

[bholler]

Sure looks like they have been problematic. I would take it back, demand a refund, and spend more money for a real stove.

Honestly if you read the reviews of any stove from the big box stores they are pretty much the same. That is what you get when stoves are sold with absolutely no support or instruction offered. Yes it is possible this stove is defective for sure. But I think that other issues are more likely.

 

[BrotherBart]

What some have mentioned is true. The same complaint shows up five or six times a season in the Fall when folks that have been burning in a pre-EPA stove buy a new one. And not one time in the ten years that I have been here has it turned out to be "blocked intake". Eventually they get it figured out. The primary air in an EPA stove has a long way to travel/get dragged into the wood load. Which requires strong draft. The old stoves just shot it straight in the front of the stove.

A sticky post at the top of this forum page addresses it.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lem-stoves-air-is-restricted-faq-about.59225/

 

[blacktail]

Also, most stoves will struggle until a bed of ash is built up.
That plus a short flue plus possibly wet wood equals poor burning.

 

[outbackkarl]

Update: after sitting in front of this POS, poorly-made junk [Lowe's] stove for hours messing around with the door, draft that really doesn't make any difference in/out, trying to get it to burn well-seasoned wood, and cursing --- I yanked it out and replaced it with a 6-year-old used Hearthstone EPA stove! What a gigantic difference! It burns all of the wood, all the time, the draft works, the output is bloody amazing, and my house is absolutely toasty again. So there ya have it, non-believers. Lesson learned, buy quality, not cheap junk!

 

[begreen]

Different stoves draft differently. Glad you have heat, but not convinced the stove is the problem. It sounds like it just needs stronger draft. 12 ft. of chimney is ok for a few stoves, but most are tested and need 15-16'.

 

[outbackkarl]

It had 15' after I added to it. It never, ever burned well, no matter what unless the door was ajar.