Pleasant Hearth PH35PS Trips 20A Room Ground Fault Breaker

[TomHearth]

Hi Gentlemen:

This is my first post in this interesting and informative Forum.

Using a Pleasant Hearth PH35PS pellet stove in my hobby room. Room is 23' x 23' and worked well for 4 years. I use it sporadically in the winter months at 5 - 8 hours at a time but only use maybe 10 or 11 pellet bags per winter. Have connected all per the manual and had 3 Local Fire department visits and certificates for workmanship. Am using OAK. I have been performing annual maintenance per the instruction book, including cleaning and painting firebox and firepot with high temp. paint.

Unit was tripping room breaker once or twice, while well into the heating cycle after an hour or so. Turning stove off and re-starting went OK for first two times it happened. I had tried a different circuit with the same results, thinking I had a faulty ground-fault.

Problem is now worse. I start unit, pellets feed, igniter lights fire and then within a minute, trips breaker.

Can run exhaust blower on 110 via patch cord and same with recirculating fan.

Contacted Pleasant Hearth and they sent me control module board under warranty. Person talked to was not technical.

New Control board does exactly the same thing.

Am thinking that the Igniter could be the problem? Possibly upon heating the change in thermal expansion within igniter may be shorting.

Not sure what to try next? I can empty the hopper and be sure the auger feed is OK and not binding along with pulling the Igniter and bench testing with and without torch heat. I would also closely examine igniter to see if there is any exposed wiring to ground.

Since this stove is frequently run start/stop, maybe excess wear on Igniter is cause.

Since I had built up un-fired pellets, the last time I had some slight smoke come from the exhaust blower, so I simply jumped the exhaust blower to 110V (stove unplugged) until fire burned out. Let this run for about 20 minutes.

Any assistance will be appreciated. Thank You.... Tom

 

[Mt Bob]

You have a wire,somewhere,that the insulation is rubbed through,and intermittently grounds out.Disassemble stove,trace all wires,visual inspection.Or,call a stove tech.

 

[FirepotPete]

Like Bob said, wire is bared (grounding out) somewhere. Try doing a continuity test if you have a voltmeter. If you get continuity anywhere then that is where the problem is.

 

[TomHearth]

Bob and Pete:

Thank you for responding.

Since the fault appears to happen after the flame lights, possibly the first place to check wiring would be the exhaust blower? Wouldn't that be the next item to receive power?

I agree with intermittent, as I also had this happen after an hour of complete heating. Slowly getting worse.

The only problem I have is that it is 20 degrees in the room. I'll need to dress accordingly and keep my hands from getting cold. There are only so many things you can do with gloves on.

I have a Fluke Multimeter and lots of alligator clip leads.

Thank you for the comments. Will keep you posted.

Thanks... Tom

 

[TomHearth]

Gentlemen:

Final Solution...

1 - Checked all wiring - Took everything apart and ran continuity of all wires, switches and continuity to ground (all open) per your fine recommendations.
2 - Per Manufacturer: Replaced Mother Board and Temperature controller
3 - Ran both blowers, Igniter and Auger motor on 110V singly.

Nothing solved problem...

Removed GFI outlet and replaced with standard outlet... Bingo. Problem solved. Main circuit remains protected at 20A.

I can only assume that either the blowers fed back voltage when turning off to generate a current in the hot/cold lines or the GFI has developed a change in sensitivity?

Hope this helps the next person.

Thanks... Tom

 

[zrock]

GFI do get weaker over time especially when they start tripping the get weaker every time.. Was that the only plug on that circuit? The GFI could have been protecting the plugs up stream as well depending on how it was wired so it could have been something upline as well.. Also could it have been a AFCI breaker? Those are being introduced into canada building code and they suck.. They are installed mainly on the outside of a home but you cannot even run a weed eater without poping them. Stupidest thing ever.

 

[Mt Bob]

You could also have a poor connection,inside your breaker box that feeds the house.But,from my experience over the years,I would never put my main heating devise,refrig or freezer on a GFCI outlet.

 

[TomHearth]

Gentlemen:

Thank you for your replies. My Shop (where the stove is located) is in a 23 x 23 room built on the rear of my garage. The town electrical inspector required GFI's in all outlets. The stove is on one of the two 20A circuits at the very last outlet in the run. I changed the GFI to a standard outlet. The entire run is now not on a GFI.
Also, the inspector required the stove fire box be 18" above the floor because it is a garage, despite the fact that the shop floor is 15" higher than the pored slab where the cars are parked. I had to build a pedestal for the stove. They classified this as if it were a Midas Muffler Garage. Lovely regulations.

Thanks.... Tom

 

[Monica in France]

Living in a country where the CFI is installed in the fuse box for a series of circuits , I found the pratice in America of installing them on the outlet plug somewhat strange at first. But very comforting in the bathroom !
However , I notice that they don't come with obvious specifications like the ones I am used to. Mine have their current capacity and their trip current marked in a readable position : Like 40amps , 30 mA. ( this is for 220 V).
Looking at CFCI outlets in Home Depot , I don't recall seeing any useful information like this.

If the CFI is tripping it is because either the CFI is faultly or because the stove is faulty : and given the history given by Tom, I would suggest that the CFI is the culprit here.
As Zrock remarked , they can get weaker over time .This is generally not the earth leak side of their nature but their current capacity.
If you need to install them buy them from a reputable source.

 

[JRemington]

Didn’t you state you tried a different circuit and it popped the breaker on that one to?

 

[TomHearth]

JR:

After a number of GFI faults with the stove, I did try another outlet. That one failed also, but that one had tripped a number of times earlier on another device. So both CFI's had a number of cycles on them.

I know CFI's will sometimes trip if a motor is turned off. I found this out with a ceiling exhaust fan that had a light. With the light burned out, the CFI would trip sometimes when turned off. With a new light bulb installed, that didn't happen. The light bulb is parallel to the motor. I believe that the resistance of the light bulb shorts-out any EMF once the switch is turned off, but the decelerating motor continues to produce current briefly.

CFI's are sensitive to very minor differences in current flow between the Hot and Return line.

Why the stove started having a problem after giving good service for 4.5 years is troubling.

Either CFI trip current changes with time (without ever tripping previously) or I still may see an issue with the stove.

My stove is in a workshop, detached from the house but connected to my garage. It see's little continuous use but frequent start and stop cycles. I burn 10 bags per year. I keep suspecting that the ignitor has seen enough use that a condition might exist when under hot load. This is something
I have measured continuity between leads and ground with my Fluke meter, but am afraid to connect it directly to 110V, not being sure what voltage it gets from the circuit board. Also, I know that removing the ignitor from a heat sink source could burn out the ignitor. I have never blown the mother circuit board fuse.

Stove works great now.

I remain Dumbfounded... Thanks... Tom